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TristanCross
Guest
Can someone explain this?
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phoenix3212
Guest
Some of these quotes aren’t from actual Catholic sources, and others have been ripped out of context with their meanings misrepresented. More likely, this is from Lorraine Boettner’s Roman Catholicism, which is notorious for lack of intellectual credibility.
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ricko
Guest
I did a search for the first “accusation” and it is only on anti-Catholic sites. Many of those sites make a accusation and give a reference which is fake, knowing very few people would bother looking it up. If it’s true, then why is there no photocopy of it, only someone saying so. On an anti-Jehovah Witness site they have photocopies of the Watchtower. So this smells very fishy.
Where did you get these quotes from? Did you do any research to check them out?
Where did you get these quotes from? Did you do any research to check them out?
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
I did a search on all these statement and found none to come from any catholic source not even from the documents that the report to have come from.
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RGWA
Guest
As LDS we are very aware of the truth being distorted on anti sites, however I would like to know what part is truth and if you were to correct the below statements how would they read
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Corki
Guest
We need the context.
The statements could be true, as is, for example if they were discussing times when any priest or Bishop including the Pope is acting in persona Christi.
The statements could be true, as is, for example if they were discussing times when any priest or Bishop including the Pope is acting in persona Christi.
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JOL
Guest
I would recommend your reading of Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating. Awesome book that will answer many of these questions.
JOL
JOL
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SalomeBintullah
Guest
I’ll have to research the others, but here’s Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical statement in context (emphasis mine):
A great deal, however, has been wanting to the entire fullness of that consolation. Amidst these very manifestations of public joy and Reverence Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the name of Christians.
This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief.
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, Who, when about to return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest Prayer, that His Disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray . . . that they all may be one, as Thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this Divine Prayer and Supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this Prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the Unity of Divine Faith.
-Pope Leo XIII, from Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, June 20, 1894 (source)
The impression that I get is that he’s saying he (and we, although he’s using the royal “we” here) should strive, as God Almighty did, to share the Good News with all people, both Christians and non-Christians, so that they might have salvation.
Papal Encyclicals Online is a great resource if you want to check an encyclical quote and/or read it in context.
A great deal, however, has been wanting to the entire fullness of that consolation. Amidst these very manifestations of public joy and Reverence Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the name of Christians.
This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief.
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, Who, when about to return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest Prayer, that His Disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray . . . that they all may be one, as Thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this Divine Prayer and Supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this Prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the Unity of Divine Faith.
-Pope Leo XIII, from Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, June 20, 1894 (source)
The impression that I get is that he’s saying he (and we, although he’s using the royal “we” here) should strive, as God Almighty did, to share the Good News with all people, both Christians and non-Christians, so that they might have salvation.
Papal Encyclicals Online is a great resource if you want to check an encyclical quote and/or read it in context.
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SalomeBintullah
Guest
As for the quotations taken from St. Alphonsus de Liguori’s devotional work The Glories of Mary, they’ve almost certainly been ripped out of context. You also have to understand that during St. Alphonsus’ day, it was fashionable for religious literature to be written in extremely flowery, hyperbolic language. People read it with the understanding that the words were greatly exaggerated and not necessarily meant to be taken at face value. The problem today, even for Catholics, is that we no longer use this style of religious writing, so for many people it’s confusing and perhaps even shocking if they’re not aware of the style. I haven’t read The Glories of Mary yet, although I have it saved on my computer, so I really can’t help out any more than that. Perhaps someone who has read it will be able to give you those sentences in context.
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SalomeBintullah
Guest
I have Googled this and have only been able to find it on anti-Catholic websites. I can also find no record of any publication called the “Catholic National” ever having existed at any point in time. This is almost certainly a hoax drummed up by anti-Catholic Fundamentalists.
Again, I can only find references to this on anti-Catholic websites. Also, “Bertanous” is apparently incorrect Latin - it should be “Bertrandus,” according to a comment on a Catholic blog that I read. And I seriously doubt that the pope would make a Latin mistake in an official document, don’t you?
Answered in post #8
Again, I can find no record of this source except on anti-Catholic websites. But it makes me laugh, because “Eccliastical” should be spelled “Ecclesiastical.” This spelling mistake is reproduced on these anti-Catholic websites. All they’ve done is copy from each other.
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SalomeBintullah
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This is actually a genuine source, and you can read the entire book here. Also, please note that he says the only created being who can forgive sins is the Catholic priest. As you know, Catholics do indeed confess their sins and are absolved of them by a priest in the sacrament of Confession. This is scripturally based on John 20:21-23. You can read about more scriptural support for confession here and here.
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SalomeBintullah
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This is true. After all, Protestants already agree with this because they believe that not everyone on earth is saved just because Jesus died for them. We have to allow God to work in us and through us.
Again, see John 20:21-23. Also understand that St. Alphonsus is not saying that priests are strong-arming God into accepting their judgments. He’s talking here about confession, I believe, which I addressed earlier.
Again, extremely flowery language that was popular at the time. St. Alphonsus is talking about the priest’s power to consecrate the bread and wine, thus transforming it into the Body and Blood of Our Lord. This is not magic. This is a miracle of God.
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Robert_in_SD
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This is a list of anti-Catholic whoppers. It is a hodgepodge of mis-quotes and statements ripped out of context offered to the feeble-minded as support for the improper conclusion that Catholics worship the Pope and Mary.Can someone explain this?
The pope is the successor of the Apostle Peter. He holds the same office and is Christ’s representative as was St. Peter. His office is accorded great respect, but he himself is a creature like the rest of us, subject to temptation and sin.
Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ the one savior of the world. She is given great honor and respect for this, but she is not considered divine. She too is just a creature like us, but she was made a masterpiece of creation for the purpose of revealing the glory of God.
Adoration is given only to God by Catholics. Proper honor is accorded to the successor of Peter (the Pope) and all the other bishops of the Church (for they also are the successors of the Apostles), and great honor and respect is shown to Mary, the Mother of our savior Jesus Christ.
This is all clearly set forth in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a very detailed document (containing citations to official Church documents) that highlights the beliefs of our faith concerning the above and many other areas of concern to many non-Catholics. If you want to know what Catholics really believe about the Pope and about Mary, you should start there, and should not be relying on third hand snippets of misdirection and outright falsity. A link to the searchable online version is here.
Peace,
Robert
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SalomeBintullah
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Indeed much more could be cited, such as what St. Alphonsus himself says about these quotations in his note “To the Reader” at the beginning of his book:
In order that my present work may not be condemned by the over-critical, I think it well to explain certain propositions that will be found in it, and which may seem hazardous, or perhaps obscure. I have noticed some, and should others attract your attention, charitable reader, I beg that you will understand them according to the rules of sound theology and the doctrine of the holy Roman Catholic Church, of which I declare myself a most obedient son.
In the Introduction,…referring to the fifth chapter of this work, I say that it is the will of God that all graces should come to us by the hands of Mary. Now, this is indeed a most consoling truth for souls tenderly devoted to our most Blessed Lady, and for poor sinners who wish to repent.
Nor should this opinion be looked upon as contrary to sound doctrine, since the Father of theology, St. Augustine, in common with most writers, says, that Mary co-operated by her charity in the spiritual birth of all members of the Church (“Mater quidem spiritu, non capitis nostril, quod est ipse Salvator, ex quo magis illa spiritaliter nata est; quia omnes, qui in eum crediderint, in quibus et ipsa est, recte filii Sponsi appellantur; sed plane mater membrorum ejus, quod nos sumus, quia cooperata est charitate, ut fideles in ecclesia nascerentur, quae illius capitis membra sunt.” —Lib. De Santa Virginitate, cap. vi.) A celebrated writer, and one who cannot be accused of exaggeration or of misguided devotion, says, “that it was, properly speaking, on Mount Calvary that Jesus formed his Church” (Nicole, Instr. Sur la Sal. Ang. ch. 2); and then it is evident that the Blessed Virgin co-operated in a most excellent and especial manner in the accomplishment of this work. And in the same way it can be said, that though she brought forth the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ, without pain, she did not bring forth the body of this Head without very great suffering; and so it was on Mount Calvary that Mary began, in an especial manner, to be the Mother of the whole Church. And now, to say all in a few words: God, to glorify the Mother of the Redeemer, has so determined and disposed that of her great charity she should intercede in behalf of all those for whom his divine Son paid and offered the superabundant price of his precious blood in which alone is our salvation, life, and resurrection" (“In quo est salus, vita et resurrection nostra.” —Off. De Exalt. SS. Cruc.).
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
OK 
Catholic National what ?
This looks like the very exaggerated sort of stuff that was sometimes said after Vatican I
- theologically, it’s a monstrosity: if it is an exact quotation. Which is not impossible. Whether it is, may be harder to establish.This one is annoying - for starters, if people are going to borrow from Petrus
Bertrandus, they ought at least to spell his name accurately. Blunders like that show only that the writer was ignorant of Latin; which does not suggest that he was competent to judge the meaning of a book written in Latin. The author can’t even spell the word “cites” properly. This degree of semi-literacy is disgraceful, & is made far worse when, as here, it is joined with an attempt to argue about the details of the Pope’s temporal power. The author is completely incompetent to discuss the subject, however much he or she may dislike it.If Pius V quotes Bertrandus (& I don’t doubt he did), it would help if some references were given. What writing of the Pope is referred to, & what is the reference to Bertrandus’ own work ? Barclay wrote in the first decade of the 1600s, and his book, being both in Latin & 400 years old, is better known to historians of political ideas than to the average Christian. Barclay was engaged in an exchange with Cardinal Bellarmine, & since Bellarmine’s works are not guaranteed to be read even by his status as a canonised Saint & Doctor of the Church, much less is Barclay likely to be in print.
As for the Pope being God: for one thing, English God makes the Latin deus more definite than may be intended: Deus could also mean “a god”; & without referring to Barclay’s text, it’s impossible to work out what is intended. Popes were referred to as deus from about 700 to at least 1440 (which includes the lifetime of Bertrandus); the idea is less startling than it may seem, since “I will make you a god to Pharaoh” is what Moses is told. It was a not unusual metaphor in the political thought of the period for expressing ideas about sovereignty - & was not confined to Popes (there was no reason it should be): James VI & I calls kings “little gods”. He is applying to his own authority as a sovereign ruler the same metaphor as publicists for Papal authority such as Augustinus Triumphus had employed for expressing Papal authority over the Church. Whether the Pope was sovereign over the Church was a question that allowed for more than one answer: if the Church is a corporation, the answer might be “yes”; if it was subject to royal or imnperial authority, the answer would be “no”. It is no coincidence that the first treatise on the Church, the Summa de Ecclesia of James of Viterbo, appeared only in 1300.
This is over-simplified, but some kind of background is essential if the use of such language is to be understood. FWIW, if the Popes had imagined themselves to be God, they would have been undernmining their authority, as the Catholic Faith knows of only one God. So those who think the Pope claims to be God in the proper sense of the word seem not to known very much about rather basic Catholic dogmas.
This a genuine quotation, & nothing to get excited about. It does not imply that the Pope is God Almighty, neither does it equate the two, nor does it mean the Pope has replaced God (an absurd idea in itself). If the Church is to preach the Gospel of Christ, it needs the authority of Christ. Otherwise, Protestant pastors would be preaching not by Christ’s authority, but by their own. If the NT books were not written by the authority of God Almighty, they have no title to being venerated as inspired or as canonical. But the Church does have Christ’s authority (see e.g., Matt 28) - therefore, so do the successors of Peter: including Leo XIII.
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GKC
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Just Catholic National, apparently. I knew I had seen these addressed before. Here’s one place:OK
Catholic National what ?
This looks like the very exaggerated sort of stuff that was sometimes said after Vatican I
This one is annoying - for starters, if people are going to borrow from Petrus
Bertrandus, they ought at least to spell his name accurately. Blunders like that show only that the writer was ignorant of Latin; which does not suggest that he was competent to judge the meaning of a book written in Latin. The author can’t even spell the word “cites” properly. This degree of semi-literacy is disgraceful, & is made far worse when, as here, it is joined with an attempt to argue about the details of the Pope’s temporal power. The author is completely incompetent to discuss the subject, however much he or she may dislike it.
If Pius V quotes Bertrandus (& I don’t doubt he did), it would help if some references were given. What writing of the Pope is referred to, & what is the reference to Bertrandus’ own work ? Barclay wrote in the first decade of the 1600s, and his book, being both in Latin & 400 years old, is better known to historians of political ideas than to the average Christian. Barclay was engaged in an exchange with Cardinal Bellarmine, & since Bellarmine’s works are not guaranteed to be read even by his status as a canonised Saint & Doctor of the Church, much less is Barclay likely to be in print.
As for the Pope being God: for one thing, English God makes the Latin deus more definite than may be intended: Deus could also mean “a god”; & without referring to Barclay’s text, it’s impossible to work out what is intended. Popes were referred to as deus from about 700 to at least 1440 (which includes the lifetime of Bertrandus); the idea is less startling than it may seem, since “I will make you a god to Pharaoh” is what Moses is told. It was a not unusual metaphor in the political thought of the period for expressing ideas about sovereignty - & was not confined to Popes (there was no reason it should be): James VI & I calls kings “little gods”. He is applying to his own authority as a sovereign ruler the same metaphor as publicists for Papal authority such as Augustinus Triumphus had employed for expressing Papal authority over the Church. Whether the Pope was sovereign over the Church was a question that allowed for more than one answer: if the Church is a corporation, the answer might be “yes”; if it was subject to royal or imnperial authority, the answer would be “no”. It is no coincidence that the first treatise on the Church, the Summa de Ecclesia of James of Viterbo, appeared only in 1300.
This is over-simplified, but some kind of background is essential if the use of such language is to be understood. FWIW, if the Popes had imagined themselves to be God, they would have been undernmining their authority, as the Catholic Faith knows of only one God. So those who think the Pope claims to be God in the proper sense of the word seem not to known very much about rather basic Catholic dogmas.
This a genuine quotation, & nothing to get excited about. It does not imply that the Pope is God Almighty, neither does it equate the two, nor does it mean the Pope has replaced God (an absurd idea in itself). If the Church is to preach the Gospel of Christ, it needs the authority of Christ. Otherwise, Protestant pastors would be preaching not by Christ’s authority, but by their own.
sacrificium-laudis.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-lord-god-popenot-part-1.html
GKC
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PJM
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Friend you have asked enough questions to receive a book in reply. We have limited space here.Can someone explain this?
Pick one of two topics at a time, and I and others will be delighted to share our Catholic perspective.
We are not being evassive, but work with us ajust a bit
Love and prayers,
Pat
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