C
cath0lic
Guest
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. (1 Timothy 2: 5-6)
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J
juliamajor
Guest
And?
J
juliamajor
Guest
Explain what- ? Is that Bait I smell for us fisheaters?
C
cath0lic
Guest
I am so tired of this. Please I am looking for answers. I don’t know where I stand in all this.
I am a Catholic who is STRUGGLING! And this is starting to be frustrating. I’ve been reading the Bible and I’m just not getting the same message from the Bible as what I’ve been taught all along as a Catholic.
I’m just ready to give up.
I’ll tell you my story. I was raised as a Catholic and married. I raised my children as Catholics. My husband cheated, I got divorce. I felt unwelcomed by many Catholic members of my church. I turned to my non-Catholic friends who introduced me to the verse of John 3:16 and learned more about the Bible, God, Jesus, and the history of God’s people.
My family did not like the route I was taking. They didn’t approve of my questioning outside my Catholic faith.
Along comes a new man in my life. I wanted to marry him but my family insisted on an annulment and claimed they would not attend my wedding if I got married. So we married without them present by his pastor.
Since then the guilt and the fact that my family was not welcoming and accepting of my new marriage nor my new husband into the family. I decided to get an annulment and not tell them. I had my new marriage blessed by the Catholic church.
Now I am treated like an outsider in the Church (since our wedding announcement was made in our small local newspaper, they know about my new marriage) and my family still treats me as the did before my annulment. I had decided that I would not tell them of it, because it’s my own personal business. I feel I should be accepted no matter what circumstances had happened in my life, visiable or not…and this isn’t the first time as you will see if you check out my other posts…my pregancy before marriage was another time.
I guess my point for not sharing with my family is this…don’t treat others based on what you see…you don’t really know what’s in the heart…only God knows. And I met all the Catholic protocol for being accepted into the Church (maybe not all in order) and yet I feel condemned.
So thanks CAF, but no thanks.
You’ve made me feel just like the rest. (not all of you, but those who do, know what I’m talking about)
I am a Catholic who is STRUGGLING! And this is starting to be frustrating. I’ve been reading the Bible and I’m just not getting the same message from the Bible as what I’ve been taught all along as a Catholic.
I’m just ready to give up.
I’ll tell you my story. I was raised as a Catholic and married. I raised my children as Catholics. My husband cheated, I got divorce. I felt unwelcomed by many Catholic members of my church. I turned to my non-Catholic friends who introduced me to the verse of John 3:16 and learned more about the Bible, God, Jesus, and the history of God’s people.
My family did not like the route I was taking. They didn’t approve of my questioning outside my Catholic faith.
Along comes a new man in my life. I wanted to marry him but my family insisted on an annulment and claimed they would not attend my wedding if I got married. So we married without them present by his pastor.
Since then the guilt and the fact that my family was not welcoming and accepting of my new marriage nor my new husband into the family. I decided to get an annulment and not tell them. I had my new marriage blessed by the Catholic church.
Now I am treated like an outsider in the Church (since our wedding announcement was made in our small local newspaper, they know about my new marriage) and my family still treats me as the did before my annulment. I had decided that I would not tell them of it, because it’s my own personal business. I feel I should be accepted no matter what circumstances had happened in my life, visiable or not…and this isn’t the first time as you will see if you check out my other posts…my pregancy before marriage was another time.
I guess my point for not sharing with my family is this…don’t treat others based on what you see…you don’t really know what’s in the heart…only God knows. And I met all the Catholic protocol for being accepted into the Church (maybe not all in order) and yet I feel condemned.
So thanks CAF, but no thanks.
You’ve made me feel just like the rest. (not all of you, but those who do, know what I’m talking about)
N
Newbie2
Guest
Sorry that you feel that way…there are certainly a number of forumites that might fit in with the Pharisees 
, but many that do not.
In any case, is there a specific part of the passage that you don’t understand, the mediator part or perhaps the testimony part?
As to your situation, I’ll PM you with some questions, if that’s OK. Discussion of that probably belongs in a different forum.
, but many that do not.In any case, is there a specific part of the passage that you don’t understand, the mediator part or perhaps the testimony part?
As to your situation, I’ll PM you with some questions, if that’s OK. Discussion of that probably belongs in a different forum.
R
rwoehmke
Guest
Thanks for the explanation of your past hurts. Fot starters I would like to first of all understand what you think or what you have already been told as far as the meaning of this passage.
Q
quasimodo
Guest
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”
First of all this verse, like every other verse in scripture must be understood in light of its context has to be understood. Going back to 1 Tim 2:1 seems a good place to start But perhaps it is not because it starts with “then” meaning it follows from the preceding material. So the key to understanding this verse is to be familiar with the context of the whole letter. Never pluck a verse out and seek its meaning by itself.
The mediation Paul mentions here is associated with the the sacrifice of the cross wherein Christ “gave himself as a ransom for all men.” Only a divine person with a fully human nature could would do the trick: Man’s sins offend the infinite God because man is made in the image and likeness of God. Since the offense is to God the offense is infinite. Since we are finite we cannot satisfy the demands of justice. Only the man Jesus Christ could because he is a divine person with a fully human nature. Hence, he is the one mediator who could cross the gulf of God’s goodness and our fallen nature. The remainder of the verse is a bit obscure, but I think it means that all this happened in God’s due time.
By the way … anyone who is emotionally raw should not spend much time on the internet. It is a rough and tumble place even in the best of sites because some people let it all loose due to the anonymity and because it is so easy to misunderstand with out non-verbal clues to a person’s intent.
First of all this verse, like every other verse in scripture must be understood in light of its context has to be understood. Going back to 1 Tim 2:1 seems a good place to start But perhaps it is not because it starts with “then” meaning it follows from the preceding material. So the key to understanding this verse is to be familiar with the context of the whole letter. Never pluck a verse out and seek its meaning by itself.
The mediation Paul mentions here is associated with the the sacrifice of the cross wherein Christ “gave himself as a ransom for all men.” Only a divine person with a fully human nature could would do the trick: Man’s sins offend the infinite God because man is made in the image and likeness of God. Since the offense is to God the offense is infinite. Since we are finite we cannot satisfy the demands of justice. Only the man Jesus Christ could because he is a divine person with a fully human nature. Hence, he is the one mediator who could cross the gulf of God’s goodness and our fallen nature. The remainder of the verse is a bit obscure, but I think it means that all this happened in God’s due time.
By the way … anyone who is emotionally raw should not spend much time on the internet. It is a rough and tumble place even in the best of sites because some people let it all loose due to the anonymity and because it is so easy to misunderstand with out non-verbal clues to a person’s intent.
M
MarcoPolo
Guest
If it is an apologetic response you are looking for to explain one mediator, perhaps this link will help? Or perhaps these paragraphs from the Catechism. Especially:
CCC# 480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
Also I do not understand why you said you were raised Catholic, but it took non-Catholic friends to introduce you to John 3:16. Didn’t you ever hear that verse at mass?
Your best solution in your unfortunate situation is to pray and seek the counsel of a priest or friends who know the Catholic faith well if you have questions about it. I think you were wise to come here. You are more than welcome to PM me if you like.
M
mschrank
Guest
Hi Cath0lic,
The link to the Catechism is what you should be looking at. Remember, thousands upon thousands of people had been reading the Bible for a long time before Protestantism was invented, and they never took it to mean that we should not ask saints for help.
The protestant interpretation is a novel, fringe opinion and we should not really take it too seriously once we consider that those closest to Jesus and his Apostles took it to mean something completely different, namely, that:
Remember, we have to hold fast to what has been historically believed, we should not be swayed by every fleeting opinion and false doctrine, adapted to the philosophies and world-views of the present age. That is precisely what lies at the heart of protestantism and every other heresy.
God bless,
Matthew
The link to the Catechism is what you should be looking at. Remember, thousands upon thousands of people had been reading the Bible for a long time before Protestantism was invented, and they never took it to mean that we should not ask saints for help.
The protestant interpretation is a novel, fringe opinion and we should not really take it too seriously once we consider that those closest to Jesus and his Apostles took it to mean something completely different, namely, that:
catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9007chap.asp
Remember, we have to hold fast to what has been historically believed, we should not be swayed by every fleeting opinion and false doctrine, adapted to the philosophies and world-views of the present age. That is precisely what lies at the heart of protestantism and every other heresy.
God bless,
Matthew
M
maryj
Guest
so much to respond to. I think you need a hug “Hugging You”. Raised catholic, yup so was I , but basically wasn’t catechised (is that a word??I am so tired of this. Please I am looking for answers. I don’t know where I stand in all this.
I am a Catholic who is STRUGGLING! And this is starting to be frustrating. I’ve been reading the Bible and I’m just not getting the same message from the Bible as what I’ve been taught all along as a Catholic.
I’m just ready to give up.
I’ll tell you my story. I was raised as a Catholic and married. I raised my children as Catholics. My husband cheated, I got divorce. I felt unwelcomed by many Catholic members of my church. I turned to my non-Catholic friends who introduced me to the verse of John 3:16 and learned more about the Bible, God, Jesus, and the history of God’s people.
My family did not like the route I was taking. They didn’t approve of my questioning outside my Catholic faith.
Along comes a new man in my life. I wanted to marry him but my family insisted on an annulment and claimed they would not attend my wedding if I got married. So we married without them present by his pastor.
Since then the guilt and the fact that my family was not welcoming and accepting of my new marriage nor my new husband into the family. I decided to get an annulment and not tell them. I had my new marriage blessed by the Catholic church.
Now I am treated like an outsider in the Church (since our wedding announcement was made in our small local newspaper, they know about my new marriage) and my family still treats me as the did before my annulment. I had decided that I would not tell them of it, because it’s my own personal business. I feel I should be accepted no matter what circumstances had happened in my life, visiable or not…and this isn’t the first time as you will see if you check out my other posts…my pregancy before marriage was another time.
I guess my point for not sharing with my family is this…don’t treat others based on what you see…you don’t really know what’s in the heart…only God knows. And I met all the Catholic protocol for being accepted into the Church (maybe not all in order) and yet I feel condemned.
So thanks CAF, but no thanks.
You’ve made me feel just like the rest. (not all of you, but those who do, know what I’m talking about)
) very well. I also had a friend ,at one time in my life ,challenge my catholic beliefs. I asked a lot of questions of my faith, had some shouting matches about it as a matter of fact. I guess I didn’t realize that there were people who weren’t catholic. All this questioning brought me here to CA. Like someone else responded the internet is a scarey place. especially on some forums. I suggest taking some of your questions to this websites home page. There is a search area, just type in what your questioning and read. Yeah reading the Bible can be very confusing, if you are trying to interpret it yourself. I think you know by now that protestant faiths have many different interpretations than the catholic church has. But I will tell you one thing I know for sure…there is nothing about the catholic faith that is unbiblical. You can take my word for that or find out for yourself, I suggest the second. What I guess sticks out most in your post to me is the statments about “feeling” you are not welcome by members of the catholic church. Remember the story of the prodigal son, not only is God and everyone in heaven rejoicing over you, but God is waiting for you, He is standing at the gate looking for you. Keep that in mind. By the way, I come from a very large family, I am the youngest of 11. I have many in my family who do not go to any church. This was the one thing that hurt my mother and father. Tell your parents you have had your marriage annulled, don’t perpetuate hurt feelings. Be bigger than that. Let them know you care about them, let them know that questioning is indeed required of us. Pray and then pray somemore. Adoration is a great place to bring your questions, your hurts, your sorrows. Adore Christ and see where that gets ya!! God Bless you on your journey, may the Holy Spirit strengthen you and comfort you.
J
juliamajor
Guest
Please accept my mea culpa but unfortunately that is a standard ‘baiting’ line.My most profound apologies.I am so tired of this. Please I am looking for answers. I don’t know where I stand in all this.
I am a Catholic who is STRUGGLING! And this is starting to be frustrating. I’ve been reading the Bible and I’m just not getting the same message from the Bible as what I’ve been taught all along as a Catholic.
I’m just ready to give up.
I’ll tell you my story. I was raised as a Catholic and married. I raised my children as Catholics. My husband cheated, I got divorce. I felt unwelcomed by many Catholic members of my church. I turned to my non-Catholic friends who introduced me to the verse of John 3:16 and learned more about the Bible, God, Jesus, and the history of God’s people.
My family did not like the route I was taking. They didn’t approve of my questioning outside my Catholic faith.
Along comes a new man in my life. I wanted to marry him but my family insisted on an annulment and claimed they would not attend my wedding if I got married. So we married without them present by his pastor.
Since then the guilt and the fact that my family was not welcoming and accepting of my new marriage nor my new husband into the family. I decided to get an annulment and not tell them. I had my new marriage blessed by the Catholic church.
Now I am treated like an outsider in the Church (since our wedding announcement was made in our small local newspaper, they know about my new marriage) and my family still treats me as the did before my annulment. I had decided that I would not tell them of it, because it’s my own personal business. I feel I should be accepted no matter what circumstances had happened in my life, visiable or not…and this isn’t the first time as you will see if you check out my other posts…my pregancy before marriage was another time.
I guess my point for not sharing with my family is this…don’t treat others based on what you see…you don’t really know what’s in the heart…only God knows. And I met all the Catholic protocol for being accepted into the Church (maybe not all in order) and yet I feel condemned.
So thanks CAF, but no thanks.
You’ve made me feel just like the rest. (not all of you, but those who do, know what I’m talking about)
J
jcrichton
Guest
***Hi!
There’s only One Body, One Baptism, One Lord, One God.
I understand your situation… part of if is “old school” and part of it is social evolution; sadly, people (as attested by Old Testament) would hold on to the rigor of the Law and exact it against those who break it; all the time forgetting about the portion of the Law that speaks of Love… Jesus said that there are two Commandments which encompasses the whole Law: Love the Lord God with all your strength and heart and your neighbor as yourself!
Catholics and others forget that family members and people from their community are also their neighbors, people they must Love and support… I apologize for any hurt that you may have suffered.
There are reasons, perhaps even valid reasons, why your family disapproved or rejected your decisions/actions–this by no means should suggest that they should have disowned you… though I personally have a problem with interreligious relationships, your Church community should offer love and understanding (perhaps even counsel) but not rejection…
Whatever happened… happened… your hurt cannot be taken back… but your healing begins not with others but with you… someone coined the phrase, “Let go and let God.”
You are part of the Body of Christ–no matter who says you cannot be Catholic they are not the Church and cannot keep you from fulfilling your aspirations.
Do not fret. Do not take things personally. Avoid confusion when visiting Forums by being not only concise but also explicit. Don’t simply say “I need help” or “I don’t get it.” Be specific as to why you need help or what it is that you do not understand.
Catholic theology is different from non-Catholic theology so you’ll always find discrepancies among both theologies. Personally, I’ve known a few Catholics who were super sloths as Catholics and turned active Christians outside of the Church (sadly, their concern was as much to assail the Church as it was to serve Christ outside of the Church–hense the apprehension some Catholics may display).
If you are interested in staying in the Church–let nothing dissuade you!
Post as many queries as you need to continue your trek!
…if you do not get the response you needed, repost with clarifications–don’t ever think that you are not welcomed to participate in the Body of Christ!:grouphug:
Maran atha!
Angel***/SIZE]
M
Mintaka
Guest
I am about to presume to give you advice. Ignore it if you like.
The trouble is, there’s a difference between accepting someone for who they are, and waving happily at them while they walk off a cliff. I think you need to ask which one you want.
Also, it seems that you are demanding acceptance, while not accepting that other people have a right to feel bad or angry about your choices. (Even if they are nasty horrible people themselves, and their choices frequently horrify you. Even the worst relatives occasionally give good advice.)
It also seems a bit hard that you are putting a stumbling block in the way of your friends and neighbors, by not explaining your real situation. Some of them will think that you don’t care, and decide that if a good person like you doesn’t need to marry in the Church, neither do they. Others will be tempted to judge you, which exposes them to danger on Judgment Day. Either way, you’re letting a situation fester just for your own comfort.
But how is it comfortable? What good is it doing you?
I know how tempting it is, when someone else acts in a nasty way towards me, to brood on what a martyr I am and how much better I am than they are. But that’s not true martyrdom. True martyrs would do anything for God and anything for their neighbors. True martyrs are filled with love.
Please allow yourself happiness. You will find it only by dying to self like Christ, and by allowing peace of mind to others. This is the only way you can win.
The trouble is, there’s a difference between accepting someone for who they are, and waving happily at them while they walk off a cliff. I think you need to ask which one you want.
Also, it seems that you are demanding acceptance, while not accepting that other people have a right to feel bad or angry about your choices. (Even if they are nasty horrible people themselves, and their choices frequently horrify you. Even the worst relatives occasionally give good advice.)
It also seems a bit hard that you are putting a stumbling block in the way of your friends and neighbors, by not explaining your real situation. Some of them will think that you don’t care, and decide that if a good person like you doesn’t need to marry in the Church, neither do they. Others will be tempted to judge you, which exposes them to danger on Judgment Day. Either way, you’re letting a situation fester just for your own comfort.
But how is it comfortable? What good is it doing you?
I know how tempting it is, when someone else acts in a nasty way towards me, to brood on what a martyr I am and how much better I am than they are. But that’s not true martyrdom. True martyrs would do anything for God and anything for their neighbors. True martyrs are filled with love.
Please allow yourself happiness. You will find it only by dying to self like Christ, and by allowing peace of mind to others. This is the only way you can win.
B
bengland
Guest
Your family sounds as if they’re genuinely concerned for your welfare, and if they don’t know about the annulment then they, as family who may not have any reason to suspect that you’d keep such information from them, would assume that you have no yet had the annulment.
Second, I happen to agree with that verse, but from what I’ve seen of your posts it seems that you’ve been exposed to some anti-catholicism and may be convinced by it to some extent, although it’s good that you’re here looking for verification before jumping out. The issues are never as simple as they are portrayed and patience is the necessary virtue in dealing with this material. Much of that material is very powerful and convincing, especially when they use the Bible to support their points.
There is one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus. Most of us have no problem with this verse. The context of this question in a Catholic apologetics forum would be presumed to extend mediation to Mary, and doubt that Mary can have an important role in our spiritual lives and in pleading our case before her Son. Am I right in understanding this as the context of the verse in light of your situation?
Second, I happen to agree with that verse, but from what I’ve seen of your posts it seems that you’ve been exposed to some anti-catholicism and may be convinced by it to some extent, although it’s good that you’re here looking for verification before jumping out. The issues are never as simple as they are portrayed and patience is the necessary virtue in dealing with this material. Much of that material is very powerful and convincing, especially when they use the Bible to support their points.
There is one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus. Most of us have no problem with this verse. The context of this question in a Catholic apologetics forum would be presumed to extend mediation to Mary, and doubt that Mary can have an important role in our spiritual lives and in pleading our case before her Son. Am I right in understanding this as the context of the verse in light of your situation?
P
Pax
Guest
Catholic,
Please accept my online hello and assurance of understanding. I’ll say a prayer that things begin to smooth out for you.
God Bless.
Please accept my online hello and assurance of understanding. I’ll say a prayer that things begin to smooth out for you.
God Bless.
G
guanophore
Guest
I did not understand what your problem was with the verse you posted, and you seemed to get upset and defensive when another poster asked the same question I had, so I think I will wait on that point.
“This” being what, exactly?
Good for you! You will have treasure in heaven. You also came to the right place!
This was also my experience when I started reading the bible, so I can relate.
I hope not too soon. This it the first post of yours I have come across, so I am not sure what all that is about.I’m just ready to give up.
I know this is hard, and I have had this experience too. Sometimes it is hard to look past the Christians and see Christ. However, if you were not coming to Church to meet Christ, then you were bound to have this happen.
It is a sad fact that there are not enough Catholic bible studies.
why do you suppose that might be?
this was the right thing for them to do. It is wrong to participate in other’s sins.
Why should any committed Christian be welcoming of sinful behavior? That doesn’t seem very loving to me.
G
guanophore
Guest
I wonder if this does not have more to do with you than it does with them?
Actually, God created families in which we could live, and grow, and learn to serve Him better. He was born into one Himself to show us how important families are. Your family is right not to condone sinful behavior. Yes, your choice to commit sins is your own personal business, but it does affect others.
You may be accepted, but your sinful behavior cannot be. I will look for your other posts so I can understand your entitlement a little better.
Well, yes and no. Yes, only God can see the heart, and if you refuse to open yours to them, of course they will never know. But no, we are called upon to discern with right judgement all that we see and hear. They can only judge by what they see, and all they can see is you committing sins, so they probably did the best they could.
Condemnation is from the Father of Lies. There is no longer any condemnation for those who are in Christ. Therefore, if you feel condemned, then your battle is with the evil one, not your family or the members of CAF. Your feelings belong to you, and are your responsibility to correct. When you start telling the truth to yourself instead of believing in lies, you will start to feel a whole lot better. Believe me, I am speaking from experience.
This statement represents distorting thinking. Other people cannot “make” you feel. Feelings belong to the person they are inside of. Others can present you with triggers or situations that may affect your feelings, but they can only control your feelings if you let them. Personally, I don’t know who you are talking about, but it is clear you need to get a grip, stop blaming others for your faults and bad feelings, and learn more about the Catholic faith.
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