Can someone explain why Natural Family Planning is OK?

[SingleMomMonica]

I’ve been watching a lot of threads about contraceptive use, and in general the answer from Catholics is that natural family planning is preferred by the church. My question is this: if the objective of sex within Catholic theology is twofold (unity and procreation), and those two aspects cannot be separated, why would NFP be any different theologically than using a condom or the Pill?

NFP is theologically different than using a condom, the Pill and the “withdraw method” because it leave each and every sexual act open to life.

If you are choosing to only have intercourse on days that you cannot conceive, isn’t the intent of the act the same as if one were wearing a condom?

No, because using a condom, like the withdraw method, is a Sexual Disorder in that it is no completing the sexual act. It is allowing for the sexual pleasure, but is not open to the possibility of life because the sperm is prevented from being accepted by the body.
Similarly the Eating Disorder Bolimia is accepting the pleasure of the taste of foods, but vomiting them up so that the nutrition is prevented from being accepted by the body.

i.e. in both situations, the physical, unitive aspect of sex is being separated from the procreative aspect?

No, that is not quite correct. With NFP, each and every sexual act is completed - each person in the couple is either fully giving or fully receiving of the complete act and couples use NFP interchangibly to either conceive or to not conceive while at the same time, being completely open to God and His Divine and Eternal Wisdom to either bless their intent or to withhold a baby, if they are trying to conceive, or to bless their intent or give them a baby, if they were trying to avoid conception.

With the use of condoms - the man is not fully giving of himself and the woman is not fully receiving - it is selfish in that each act the couple is not open to God and His Divine and Eternal Wisdom - and couple can only use condoms as a way to prevent conception.

Personally, I have no moral objection to contraception. But I am trying to learn about morality within the Roman Church and just looking for a little clarification. Thanks!

I certainly hope that you develop a moral objection to contraception as it is completely Anti-Christian just as is murder, adultery, etc. whether or not that method of contraception is abortive as most are with the exception of the Withdraw Method and Condoms without Spermicide.

 

[Nominefili]

I certainly hope that you develop a moral objection to contraception as it is completely Anti-Christian just as is murder, adultery, etc. whether or not that method of contraception is abortive as most are with the exception of the Withdraw Method and Condoms without Spermicide.

I said I don’t object to contraception. I do object to all forms of abortion and the ‘morning-after pill.’ And I hardly think it is fair to compare a married couple’s employment of preventative contraception to murder and adultery.

 

[Nominefili]

Nominefili
You need to understand intent is in fact relevent, for 40 years we were taught “grave reasons” were needed to use NFP to “space children”. Now we are taught serious reasons are needed. The teachings are deep and not easily understood on the first couple of reviews of this subject. The key is understanding the commitment to the marriage* needed for sex. The understanding of (*)marriage is also needed.

hope that helps

I’m not the one who said the intent was irrelevant, that was someone else.

 

[I_Am_Blessed]

For those who really know, on average, using the preferred Catholic method(s) (you pick them) besides the pill or condom or another method, in trying to avoid pregnancy, about how many times a year can a couple engage in sexual intercourse and it be somewhat successful (in avoiding pregnancy)??) You have to be quite scientific and calculating and a gambling couple. That, plus I dare say, pray a whole lot. I have no clue as to the odds, but I’m sure it’s out there in studies. But, my guess is, don’t be surprised as to you getting pregnant annually on just a once a month intercourse session using the best methods taught by the Church.

 

[I_Am_Blessed]

Many are waiting for Ethel K’s book to come out on it and what she would recommend as to being a devout Catholic and fertile. I would guess she’d not change a thing as it happened as to her large family. Money was no object really. I’m pleased she had 10 as Bobby, to make real a difference in the world at that time was cut down as a young man and I’m sure at least 15 was in the offing.

 

[Justy90]

That may or may not be true (your last statement). People who contracept often are driven by selfishness and greed. I can’t fathom sometimes how many people DAYCARE their kids. In my opinion, that is as sinful if not more sinful than contracepting. It is unnatural and sad to see a mother detach herself from a newborn and dump her into the arms of someone else. Sick. I’d rather a couple contracept and stay home with their kids and manage what they can than have kids year after year and take poor care of them or dump them into daycare as I see so often. NFP isn’t the happy-go-lucky joyful blessing to all couples that it is to many Catholics in here, trust me Not all couples see it as a grace and a wonderful experience or an effective one at that. I don’t happen to think all people who contracept are greedy and putting their “recreation” as one poster put it, above God. There are many good, charitable, kind, prayerful Christians (many of them Catholic, more than 85% statistics show) who contracept and have decent-sized families anyway and take good care of their kids. They’re not driven by $$$$ or a keep-God-out mentality.

As for fasting from sex for half the year, OMG, just throw me from a cliff! God bless you for your resolve! You’re a living saint! LOL

Great statement and viewpoint my friend. I have to say that this is one area that I really disgreed with Catholicism on when I left the church. I don’t believe that it is God’s will for us to have more children than we truly believe we wish to enjoy, handle and be able to support. NFP was something that my wife and I never once practiced. I think it’s silly and another way for Rome to be in your bedroom. God gave us a brain and an ability to pray for the knowledge to know when we are truly headed in the direction of his grace.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

That may or may not be true (your last statement). People who contracept often are driven by selfishness and greed. I can’t fathom sometimes how many people DAYCARE their kids. In my opinion, that is as sinful if not more sinful than contracepting. It is unnatural and sad to see a mother detach herself from a newborn and dump her into the arms of someone else. Sick. I’d rather a couple contracept and stay home with their kids and manage what they can than have kids year after year and take poor care of them or dump them into daycare as I see so often. NFP isn’t the happy-go-lucky joyful blessing to all couples that it is to many Catholics in here, trust me Not all couples see it as a grace and a wonderful experience or an effective one at that. I don’t happen to think all people who contracept are greedy and putting their “recreation” as one poster put it, above God. There are many good, charitable, kind, prayerful Christians (many of them Catholic, more than 85% statistics show) who contracept and have decent-sized families anyway and take good care of their kids. They’re not driven by $$$$ or a keep-God-out mentality.

As for fasting from sex for half the year, OMG, just throw me from a cliff! God bless you for your resolve! You’re a living saint! LOL

What incredibly ignorant and offensive things to say. You have no knowledge of why or how every child ends up in daycare. It is amazing to me how it is always the least experienced, most un-informed people always make the most judgemental comments. People with a lot of life experience have a great deal more humility when they encounter others with different lives and different challenges.

There are millions of Protestants and people of other religions who would sincerely believe that the person who does not use contraception is the irresponsible one. They have different understandings. Perhaps a sincere person could help them, in love, to understand the Catholic position. Your comments are almost comical they are so absurdly and inappropriately judgemental of other people with other lives.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What incredibly ignorant and offensive things to say. You have no knowledge of why or how every child ends up in daycare. It is amazing to me how it is always the least experienced, most un-informed people always make the most judgemental comments. People with a lot of life experience have a great deal more humility when they encounter others with different lives and different challenges.

There are millions of Protestants and people of other religions who would sincerely believe that the person who does not use contraception is the irresponsible one. They have different understandings. Perhaps a sincere person could help them, in love, to understand the Catholic position. Your comments are almost comical they are so absurdly and inappropriately judgemental of other people with other lives.

Right back at ya Angels. You have no clue about my experience with NFP nor do you have a clue about many other folks who have had a miserable experience with it and those couples who have had it adversely affect their marriages. Ignorant and offensive? I have no knowledge of why children end up in daycare. Who do you think you are?!! I am a teacher and I have taught hundreds and hundreds of kids and have watched day in day out for 12 years now the reasons why kids are put in daycare. Most of the parents in my class make very very good money, drive up in Cadillac Escalades or Suburbans or BMW’s, and live in very nice houses. They make big money and that is the reason they daycare. Are you so naive living in this country that you think most people have no choice? My wife and I chose to be home with our kids. We decided that we’d sell our house and live in an apartment to stay home with our kids rather than daycare them. Most of my co-teachers daycare their kids because they want to work. It’s called $$$$. Welcome to the USA!? What rock have you been living under for the past 30 years as people have become more materialistic and greedy, with their starter homes getting bigger and bigger…why do you think we just had this huge housing bubble BURST? People bought houses they couldn’t afford and when the interest rates came up from the ARM’s they folded and walked away…or did you miss that whole series of events?

I just love your comment that I haven’t come across people in my life with different challenges. First of all, my wife is from a third world country, the Philippines and I have lived over there watching poverty first hand. My mom has Parkinson’s Disease, I have worked in low income neighborhood schools with more than half the kids have incarcerated parents and drug users for parents. I have worked with migrant farmworker kids teaching all day in Spanish, I have met just about every type of parent and seen it all, sister. I have been through more than you know and have been around the block a few times.

The only thing that is absurd is your over-reacting, idiotic, and emotional rant response to my post. You don’t even know me or bother to consider what I say. You just jump into an emotional tyrade. Get a box of cleanex and relax! I may be absurd but your disgusting way of condoning people dumping their kids into the hands of strangers usually in the name of $$$$ equally sickens me. I could count on one hand the amount of people I know who truly need to use daycare and have no other choice. It happens, I know that. Some people lose a spouse and have no choice. Some folks have a spouse that abandons them and they have no choice. That’s a no-brainer. But how many people are truly in that position? If you believe the majority are in that position, welcome to the Twilight Zone…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Great statement and viewpoint my friend. I have to say that this is one area that I really disgreed with Catholicism on when I left the church. I don’t believe that it is God’s will for us to have more children than we truly believe we wish to enjoy, handle and be able to support. NFP was something that my wife and I never once practiced. I think it’s silly and another way for Rome to be in your bedroom. God gave us a brain and an ability to pray for the knowledge to know when we are truly headed in the direction of his grace.

Thanks, Justy. I agree. Nice to hear a rational, calm person with lucid thoughts after hearing AngelsUnaware going on a rant LOL…

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Right back at ya Angels. You have no clue about my experience with NFP nor do you have a clue about many other folks who have had a miserable experience with it and those couples who have had it adversely affect their marriages. Ignorant and offensive? I have no knowledge of why children end up in daycare. Who do you think you are?!! I am a teacher and I have taught hundreds and hundreds of kids and have watched day in day out for 12 years now the reasons why kids are put in daycare. Most of the parents in my class make very very good money, drive up in Cadillac Escalades or Suburbans or BMW’s, and live in very nice houses. They make big money and that is the reason they daycare. Are you so naive living in this country that you think most people have no choice? My wife and I chose to be home with our kids. We decided that we’d sell our house and live in an apartment to stay home with our kids rather than daycare them. Most of my co-teachers daycare their kids because they want to work. It’s called $$$$. Welcome to the USA!? What rock have you been living under for the past 30 years as people have become more materialistic and greedy, with their starter homes getting bigger and bigger…why do you think we just had this huge housing bubble BURST? People bought houses they couldn’t afford and when the interest rates came up from the ARM’s they folded and walked away…or did you miss that whole series of events?

I just love your comment that I haven’t come across people in my life with different challenges. First of all, my wife is from a third world country, the Philippines and I have lived over there watching poverty first hand. My mom has Parkinson’s Disease, I have worked in low income neighborhood schools with more than half the kids have incarcerated parents and drug users for parents. I have worked with migrant farmworker kids teaching all day in Spanish, I have met just about every type of parent and seen it all, sister. I have been through more than you know and have been around the block a few times.

The only thing that is absurd is your over-reacting, idiotic, and emotional rant response to my post. You don’t even know me or bother to consider what I say. You just jump into an emotional tyrade. Get a box of cleanex and relax! I may be absurd but your disgusting way of condoning people dumping their kids into the hands of strangers usually in the name of $$$$ equally sickens me. I could count on one hand the amount of people I know who truly need to use daycare and have no other choice. It happens, I know that. Some people lose a spouse and have no choice. Some folks have a spouse that abandons them and they have no choice. That’s a no-brainer. But how many people are truly in that position? If you believe the majority are in that position, welcome to the Twilight Zone…

You sound like a troubled and angry person. Your comments are ignorant and offensive. Good people who believe they are doing the right thing use contraception and your judgement of them is offensive. You can offer your reasons for following Church teaching without being offensive. Good families, good mothers, have to use daycare. It would redundant to state the reasons why good families would have to make this choice, as any person who can see beyond his nose can be sympathetic to the reasons that might force those choices.

If you don’t want to offer any compassion to anyone who is not you, that is your problem, but it very unsettling to see comments like the ones you have made toward whole groups of people you don’t know and don’t have any right to judge.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You sound like a troubled and angry person. Your comments are ignorant and offensive. Good people who believe they are doing the right thing use contraception and your judgement of them is offensive. You can offer your reasons for following Church teaching without being offensive. Good families, good mothers, have to use daycare. It would redundant to state the reasons why good families would have to make this choice, as any person who can see beyond his nose can be sympathetic to the reasons that might force those choices.

If you don’t want to offer any compassion to anyone who is not you, that is your problem, but it very unsettling to see comments like the ones you have made toward whole groups of people you don’t know and don’t have any right to judge.

Angels, you aren’t a very proficient reader, are you? Where did I say that I’m AGAINST contraception? Did you not read the post? For goodness sakes, my kids in my class have better reading comprehension! Geez! I told you that I’m NOT opposed to contraception? Do I need to write it in Latin and Swahili for you to absorb that concept? Yeesh! Where did I offer a reason to follow Church teaching? I said that my wife and I had a miserable NFP experience? Which part of this are you missing?

Evidently you must have daycared your kids or something to have such a venemous and knee-jerk response. I must’ve touched a nerve. These choices are not usually “forced” as I’ve stated before (yet you continue not to grasp the idea). You might have noticed that this country is extremely affluent and that the majority of Americans daycare their kids. Most people do it for $$$$ and you know that. As I stated, some are compelled to, but that is not usually the case. Most folks could do with less affluence, less “toys” and “goodies” and cut back and they could live off one income. In the cases of abandoned women or abused women, duh, of course I would understand the use of daycare. But I know that in my town my whole life, my neighbors and the kids in my parents’ neighborhoods as well as the school in which I teach, most of these moms drop off their kids starting in infancy and don’t shed a tear in the name of $$$$ as the song goes money money money money!

To whom am I to throw out this compassion that you want me to send so profusely? And why do I sound “troubled and angry?” You’re hilariously priceless, Angels? I have an awesome wife who gave me three awesome kids, ages 3, 2 and 1. I have a great job as a teacher. I have the two best parents in the world, a home I love, great pets, good friends, Jesus Christ as Lord, good health, and more love in my family than I know what to do with? Where am I troubled? LOL…as for angry, you’re dang right I am angry at irresponsible, cold-hearted people that could seperate themselves from their motherly role and farm out their kids to strangers, USUALLY in the name of the almighty dollar. Yep, that angers me. You know what else really angers me! I mean really gets my blood boiling! I mean really drives me nuts! The Dodgers are in the final round of the NLCS playoffs and could possibly go to the World Series! As a Giants fan, I’m angry! RRRRRRAHHH! What makes me even angrier is that I’ll have to pull for the Yankees against the Dodgers! See how angry I can get…

 

[Stephen168]

That may or may not be true (your last statement). People who contracept often are driven by selfishness and greed. I can’t fathom sometimes how many people DAYCARE their kids. In my opinion, that is as sinful if not more sinful than contracepting.

I have to say that this is one area that I really disgreed with Catholicism on when I left the church. ** I don’t believe** that it is God’s will for us to have more children than we truly believe we wish to enjoy, handle and be able to support.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Because the Bishops don’t want people to have sex.

If I wanted people to have less sex I’d put all the women on the pill.

The U of Chicago study that Catholics have more sex than anyone including atheists should have proved once and for all that birth control ultimately denies sex and sexual pleasure to those who use it. Christians who are faithful to the natural order of sexual relations get their cake and eat it, too.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

gurneyhalleck1:

That may or may not be true (your last statement). People who contracept often are driven by selfishness and greed. I can’t fathom sometimes how many people DAYCARE their kids. In my opinion, that is as sinful if not more sinful than contracepting.

Come again on the reading comprehension?

Lots of Protestants disagree with the Catholic position on contraception. I don’t judge those families as selfish and greedy.

People die, husbands leave, husbands lose jobs. Thank God most children in high-quality daycare are emotionally secure and score at or above their non-daycared peers on standardized tests.

I haven’t ranted at all on here, but you sure have, in a very rude and offensive way.

Who has the greater sin? The person who uses contaception because of a different religious teaching or the person who judges them harshly?

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I said I don’t object to contraception.
I understood you to say that.
I do object to all forms of abortion and the ‘morning-after pill.’
I’m glad! Hurray! You and I agree one that statement.

And I hardly think it is fair to compare a married couple’s employment of preventative contraception to murder and adultery.

Probably one of the reasons you are not a Catholic, or if it wasn’t, it is now.

The Catholic Church has always affirmed that any form of contraception (experiencing the pleasure of the sexual act while removing the possibility of pro-creation like using the withdraw method, pill, IUD, condom, whatever) is a Mortal Sin. Other Mortal Sins include murder and adultery.

For more on the Catholic perspective, if you are interested, you may want to read the very short Papal Encyclical: Humane Vite.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

For those who really know, on average, using the preferred Catholic method(s) (you pick them) besides the pill or condom or another method, in trying to avoid pregnancy, about how many times a year can a couple engage in sexual intercourse and it be somewhat successful (in avoiding pregnancy)??) You have to be quite scientific and calculating and a gambling couple. That, plus I dare say, pray a whole lot. I have no clue as to the odds, but I’m sure it’s out there in studies. But, my guess is, don’t be surprised as to you getting pregnant annually on just a once a month intercourse session using the best methods taught by the Church.

Considering the woman’s fertility cycle and the life of a man’s sperm, generally speaking the number of days a couple could engage in marital relations without getting pregnant would be 18 days out of a 28 day cycle - roughly 234.64 days a year.

There are also polls out there which show that of the couples (wives and husbands) polled those who use NFP have martial relations more often then those using other methods and those using NFP have more statifying martial relations than those using other methods.

NFP is more effective than the Pill or any other artificial method (save sterilization - like animals, who literally can’t control themselves). NFP can, unlike artifical methods, be used to conceive within the first cycle when they are ready to have a child. Those using artifical methods to prevent pregnancy can sometimes wait years to conceive after deciding to have a child.

nfpandmore.org/

ccli.org/

Plus, the divorce rate is practically non-existent among couples using NFP.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Probably one of the reasons you are not a Catholic, or if it wasn’t, it is now.

The Catholic Church has always affirmed that any form of contraception (experiencing the pleasure of the sexual act while removing the possibility of pro-creation like using the withdraw method, pill, IUD, condom, whatever) is a Mortal Sin. Other Mortal Sins include murder and adultery.

For more on the Catholic perspective, if you are interested, you may want to read the very short Papal Encyclical: Humane Vite.

I do not agree with that, and consider myself Catholic. Missing mass is a sin, gossip is a sin, and murder is a sin so is sleeping in, gossip, and murder equal(?), certainly not. Jesus said treat your neighbor as yourself, would you see any difference in being awaken, hurt by gossip, or being murdered? btw - even some of the theologians who advised the Pope in 1965-1968 on Humanae Vitae recommended allowing barrier methods (not to mention most Protestants) so many Catholics and Christians agree with her stand

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Stephen168:
Do you have a point, Stephen? Every post is based on opinion and our own views? Do you actually have something to say or do you just like making things bold?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Come again on the reading comprehension?

Lots of Protestants disagree with the Catholic position on contraception. I don’t judge those families as selfish and greedy.

People die, husbands leave, husbands lose jobs. Thank God most children in high-quality daycare are emotionally secure and score at or above their non-daycared peers on standardized tests.

I haven’t ranted at all on here, but you sure have, in a very rude and offensive way.

Who has the greater sin? The person who uses contaception because of a different religious teaching or the person who judges them harshly?

My God Angels, you are tone deaf. For the last time, I’ll put it in bold print so you can comprehend: My original post sympathized with those using birth control, it didn’t judge them!!! This is frightening that you can’t grasp this?? I never ever at anytime said that people who use birth control are evil! Please, please, for goodness sakes why can’t you understand that? Do you need it in a foreign language, backwards for dislexia, what? Geez! I am NOT opposed to birth control!!! Quit putting words in my mouth! To repeat for clarification so you’ll finally hopefully understand this: I, me, yo, am not against birth control nor do I judge those that use it. I’ll put it in Spanish: Yo pienso que esta bien control de la natalidad. No es malo. Esta bien!

Now, I just love your justification for how test scores are great for the daycare kids. Cute and priceless. I’ve had kids in my class before who had parents that both used methamphetamene while pregnant and then went on to be incarcerated and yet the kid scored well on tests as well. So what’s the point? Is that ideal? Would it not be better to have your OWN mother read to you, your OWN mother smile at you, your OWN mother see you take your first steps, your OWN mother praise you and write with you and color with you and be there for you? It’s a no brainer, Angels, a no-brainer, and you know it. I get the idea that you daycared your kids and I somehow hit a nerve. So be it. I have no respect for the daycare mentality. Here I stand, to quote a famous character. I could count on one hand the deceased spouse or abandonment situation as excuses for daycare. It happens, and of course, as I said in my last two posts that you obviously didn’t read all the way (sigh), it makes perfect sense to need daycare help in those tough circumstances. But by and large (I feel like a broken record), most Americans feel that they just CAN’T survive on one income and that they can’t do without the zillions of creature comforts and goodies. They’re wrong and they put materialisms first and foremost over their children. If you want to bury your head in the sand, live in the Outer Limits or the Twilight Zone, and think that most Americans are not too materialistic and they all have dead spouses and tortured pasts, you go on believing that. I have lived in the third world, been to the Philippines, China, Thailand, all over the place, and I have seen poverty. This country hasn’t a clue what real poverty is and most of the goodies we think we need are boloney and selfish. But you go on believing that the moms at my school who drive up to the daycare next door in a Mercedes or a BMW or an Escalade are all single-moms who are poor. Go ahead. In my next post I have some swamp property to sell you.

 

[PJM]

=Nominefili;5809146]I’ve been watching a lot of threads about contraceptive use, and in general the answer from Catholics is that natural family planning is preferred by the church. My question is this: if the objective of sex within Catholic theology is twofold (unity and procreation), and those two aspects cannot be separated, why would NFP be any different theologically than using a condom or the Pill?

If you are choosing to only have intercourse on days that you cannot conceive, isn’t the intent of the act the same as if one were wearing a condom? i.e. in both situations, the physical, unitive aspect of sex is being separated from the procreative aspect?

Personally, I have no moral objection to contraception. But I am trying to learn about morality within the Roman Church and just looking for a little clarification. Thanks!

Yes. The reason is it takes advantage of a Perfect God’s plan to space children, and places NO man made physical barriers to the possibility of conception, which is always and everywhere a grevious sin in that it always opposes the Divine Will of God!

It is cooperating with God’s plan, not pretending to know more or know better than God himself.

God bless you,

Pat