Can someone explain why Natural Family Planning is OK?

[Angels_Unaware]

My God Angels, you are tone deaf. For the last time, I’ll put it in bold print so you can comprehend: My original post sympathized with those using birth control, it didn’t judge them!!! This is frightening that you can’t grasp this?? I never ever at anytime said that people who use birth control are evil! Please, please, for goodness sakes why can’t you understand that? Do you need it in a foreign language, backwards for dislexia, what? Geez! I am NOT opposed to birth control!!! Quit putting words in my mouth! To repeat for clarification so you’ll finally hopefully understand this: I, me, yo, am not against birth control nor do I judge those that use it. I’ll put it in Spanish: Yo pienso que esta bien control de la natalidad. No es malo. Esta bien!

Now, I just love your justification for how test scores are great for the daycare kids. Cute and priceless. I’ve had kids in my class before who had parents that both used methamphetamene while pregnant and then went on to be incarcerated and yet the kid scored well on tests as well. So what’s the point? Is that ideal? Would it not be better to have your OWN mother read to you, your OWN mother smile at you, your OWN mother see you take your first steps, your OWN mother praise you and write with you and color with you and be there for you? It’s a no brainer, Angels, a no-brainer, and you know it. I get the idea that you daycared your kids and I somehow hit a nerve. So be it. I have no respect for the daycare mentality. Here I stand, to quote a famous character. I could count on one hand the deceased spouse or abandonment situation as excuses for daycare. It happens, and of course, as I said in my last two posts that you obviously didn’t read all the way (sigh), it makes perfect sense to need daycare help in those tough circumstances. But by and large (I feel like a broken record), most Americans feel that they just CAN’T survive on one income and that they can’t do without the zillions of creature comforts and goodies. They’re wrong and they put materialisms first and foremost over their children. If you want to bury your head in the sand, live in the Outer Limits or the Twilight Zone, and think that most Americans are not too materialistic and they all have dead spouses and tortured pasts, you go on believing that. I have lived in the third world, been to the Philippines, China, Thailand, all over the place, and I have seen poverty. This country hasn’t a clue what real poverty is and most of the goodies we think we need are boloney and selfish. But you go on believing that the moms at my school who drive up to the daycare next door in a Mercedes or a BMW or an Escalade are all single-moms who are poor. Go ahead. In my next post I have some swamp property to sell you.

This is a very interesting reaction. I would actually consider this post characteristic of an abusive emotional style.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This is a very interesting reaction. I would actually consider this post characteristic of an abusive emotional style.

Where did you get your degree in psychiatry? I think that’s great! Sigmund Freud, eat your heart out! Abusive emotional style. Boy you are touchy feely, aren’t you!

Actually my post is a reaction to a person who doesn’t read posts all the way, overreacts like no tomorrow accusing original said poster of something he never said, then goes on to defend deadbeats who dump their kids. If that’s abusive emotional, so be it. My prognosis of your posts is a excessively emotional person with a guilty conscience with an accute lash-out political correctness disorder accompanied by a persistent appreciation of abandonment. Hey, now I’m Dr. Freud

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I do not agree with that, and consider myself Catholic.

Looking out for your immortal soul: Do not receive the Holy Eucharist without going to Confession first to confess your support of contraception as it is a Mortal Sin and receiving Jesus in the Eucharist will only further compound that sin.

Missing mass is a sin, gossip is a sin, and murder is a sin so is sleeping in, gossip, and murder equal(?), certainly not.

There are many things that are sin, but not all sin is deadly. This is what the Bible and the Catholic Church has always taught.

Missing Mass on a Sunday is a Mortal Sin unless you were for example in Hospice Care & physically unable to get Mass. Gossip is not a Mortal Sin, but a Venial Sin. Murder is a Mortal Sin.

As a Catholic, you may want to take a little time to find out what the Church teaches. I recommend to you to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. In the back is a Subject Index and you can look things up like the different kinds of sin and the Gravity of Sin:

Mortal and Venial in paragraphs 1852-1864 “Mortal sin…if it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back” “Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of sin.”

While you’re in the CCC, you may also want to look up paragraph 2370 “Every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil” " The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle…involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality."

The quotes I’ve listed are from the CCC, but are just a small sample of what is in that section - bolding is mine.

btw- Since Saturday afternoon and night Masses and Sunday Morning, Afternoon & Night Masses are offered to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, sleeping in would not be an excuse for missing Mass.

Jesus said treat your neighbor as yourself, would you see any difference in being awaken, hurt by gossip, or being murdered?

Of course there is a difference between venial and mortal sin - as stated above the Church has always taught that. The Church has also made it abundantely clear that contraception is a mortal sin.

btw - even some of the theologians who advised the Pope in 1965-1968 on Humanae Vitae recommended allowing barrier methods (not to mention most Protestants) so many Catholics and Christians agree with her stand

btw- it was because of Papal Infallibility that since the Pope was teaching on a matter of morals that the Pope did not say that using barrier methods was acceptable, quite the contrary. Theogians can teach error as they are fallible, but the Pope can’t in matters of Faith and Morals.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Probably one of the reasons you are not a Catholic, or if it wasn’t, it is now.

The Catholic Church has always affirmed that any form of contraception (experiencing the pleasure of the sexual act while removing the possibility of pro-creation like using the withdraw method, pill, IUD, condom, whatever) **is a Mortal Sin. Other Mortal Sins include murder and adultery. **
For more on the Catholic perspective, if you are interested, you may want to read the very short Papal Encyclical: Humane Vite.

Looking out for your immortal soul: Do not receive the Holy Eucharist without going to Confession first to confess your support of contraception as it is a Mortal Sin and receiving Jesus in the Eucharist will only further compound that sin.

Would that not require sin first? or are you speaking as god?

…There are many things that are sin, but not all sin is deadly. This is what the Bible and the Catholic Church has always taught.

Missing Mass on a Sunday is a Mortal Sin unless you were for example in Hospice Care & physically unable to get Mass. Gossip is not a Mortal Sin, but a Venial Sin. Murder is a Mortal Sin.

so which side are you on now is missing mass equal to murder and barriers or did you jump the fence?

As a Catholic, you may want to take a little time to find out what the Church teaches. I recommend to you to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. In the back is a Subject Index and you can look things up like the different kinds of sin and the Gravity of Sin:

Mortal and Venial in paragraphs 1852-1864 “Mortal sin…if it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back” “Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of sin.”

While you’re in the CCC, you may also want to look up paragraph 2370 “Every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil” " The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle…involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality."

The quotes I’ve listed are from the CCC, but are just a small sample of what is in that section - bolding is mine.

If you need I could help you understand the catechism then you may come to know the difference in barriers verses murder. I could even help you with Humanae Vitae after all it is not easily understood and certainly does not list murder equal to using a barrier

btw- Since Saturday afternoon and night Masses and Sunday Morning, Afternoon & Night Masses are offered to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, sleeping in would not be an excuse for missing Mass.

Thanks will you offer these other Masses? many parishes do not have multple masses however it would seem you have some special authority to change things in the church, or are trying to spin

Of course there is a difference between venial and mortal sin - as stated above the Church has always taught that. The Church has also made it abundantely clear that contraception is a mortal sin.

Wow you conveniently forgot the mortal sin or were you dumping the catechism again?

… btw- it was because of Papal Infallibility that since the Pope was teaching on a matter of morals that the Pope did not say that using barrier methods was acceptable, quite the contrary. Theogians can teach error as they are fallible, but the Pope can’t in matters of Faith and Morals.

It is ashame you did not bother to read and understand the comment, or is this just more spin?

hope that helps

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Would that not require sin first? or are you speaking as god? so which side are you on now is missing mass equal to murder and barriers or did you jump the fence? If you need I could help you understand the catechism then you may come to know the difference in barriers verses murder. I could even help you with Humanae Vitae after all it is not easily understood and certainly does not list murder equal to using a barrier Thanks will you offer these other Masses? many parishes do not have multple masses however it would seem you have some special authority to change things in the church, or are trying to spin Wow you conveniently forgot the mortal sin or were you dumping the catechism again? It is ashame you did not bother to read and understand the comment, or is this just more spin?

hope that helps

Wow Texas Roofer claims to be a Catholic and yet completely rejects the Authority of the Catholic Church - doesn’t quite make any sense now does it?

Missing Mass is a Mortal Sin and Murder is a Mortal Sin and use of any form of Contraception (barrier or otherwise) is a Mortal Sin and it is also a Mortal Sin to support anyone’s decision to commit these Mortal Sins.

I personally did not come up with what is a Mortal Sin and what is a Venial Sin. The Catholic Church has clearly taught this from the beginning - revealing only what God revealed to Her. As the CCC states - Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin. - paragraph 1859

Since it is clear that you do not follow the Catholic Church’s teaching and refuse to confess Mortal Sin - namely your support for others in their decision to use barrier methods of Contraception, I will pray for your soul. I am very sad for you and your current choice of eternal destination. I certainly hope & pray that you will have a change of heart to love and obey each and every single one of the Catholic Church’s Teachings - since they are Christ’s Teachings - to reject the Church is to reject Jesus. I hope that your choice of eternal destination will change in the near future.

Best Wishes Always and I sincerely mean that.

By the way, you can & should complain to your Bishop if Weekend Masses are not available in your area’s various parishes. He has the power to correct that.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Nominefili
I’ve been watching a lot of threads about contraceptive use, and in general the answer from Catholics is that natural family planning is preferred by the church. My question is this: if the objective of sex within Catholic theology is twofold (unity and procreation), and those two aspects cannot be separated, why would NFP be any different theologically than using a condom or the Pill?

There are differences. NFP is with God’s approval becasue it does not apply **MANMADE **devices intended to “absolutely” prevent pregnancy.

NFP untilizes the bodies normal functions, recogonizes that we belong to God in our intireity, including our bodies. Paul ask “do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.?” One works with God’s design, the other twharts God’s design. That is profoundly different.

If you are choosing to only have intercourse on days that you cannot conceive, isn’t the intent of the act the same as if one were wearing a condom? i.e. in both situations, the physical, unitive aspect of sex is being separated from the procreative aspect?

Two points: 1. Contraceptive sex has PROVEN to be Anti-unitive," meaning it encourages a relationship based on “what do I want” and is a me, me me focus, that has often been the cause for not binding, not growing closer, which is what is meant by the unitive function. *. Futherr because the focus is only on persoanl and instant gradification, it has led the Porn industry to become a multi-Billion dollar business, and plays a key in the number of divorices. Once “me ain’t getting enough” I’ll find another way to get what I want! Catholic divorce is now over 50%

Point 2. This position as articulated by Pope Paul VI, in 1965 was not his invention. It is the position, constant and continous for 2,000 years of Catholic Teaching! Why?

Because if confroms to Gods Will and Natural plan. Because it changes the focus from “me” to “US” is unitive, by nature resulting from the tenderness and mutual sacrifice required. When do you ever get something really good without paying a price:shrug:

The divorce rate among those who practice NFP is 10% or less of the national average.

Personally, I have no moral objection to contraception. But I am trying to learn about morality within the Roman Church and just looking for a little clarification. Thanks!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

**
The origianl reply: **

I have often wondered the same thing. It appears that NFP can be and is frequently used as a form of contraception. I am much more comfortable with the Orthodox position, which says contraception of any kind (whether artificial or natural) is sinful. I was a little taken a back when I was investigating Orthodoxy and saw that they fasted for roughly half the year (not all at once of course). This included fasting from marital relations.

I think I can safely say that Catholics and Orthodox see contraception as sinful because it works against our salvation. Humans elevate their desires above God’s will when they contracept.

The officail teaching of the Catholic Church from the Catechism

CCC 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).

CCC 2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

CCC Natural furtile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death.

Hope this helps you both,

Love and prayers,
Pat*

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

This thread is now closed.