Can someone give me a secular argument against euthanasia?

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The Canadian House of Commons defeated a euthanasia bill the other day and many people are shouting “NOOOOOOOOOO!!!” Some people have said “my life, my choice”. I have to admit, that’s a compelling argument. I often say unnatural deaths are against human nature, but can any of you give me secular reasons to oppose euthanasia?
 
  1. A person may change his or her mind about wanting to die.
  2. There is the risk that people will feel compelled to die if they think they are a burden.
  3. Life becomes cheap when it can be disposed of easily.
  4. The legalisation of euthanasia suggests that we alone are affected if we die.
  5. The legalisation of euthanasia suggests that our obligations to ourselves outweigh every other consideration.
  6. The legalisation of euthanasia suggests that we alone know best when it is time for us to die.
 
Search information on the Netherlands. Euthanasia has been legal there for quite some time. As time goes on it gets easier and easier to kill people. WITHOUT their permission. OSV has done some excellant articles on it. One story was about a Catholic nun who was euthanized by a doctor who said he did it because he felt she didn’t ask because of her faith. duh! As far as I know he was not charged with any crime. Some research says that 1000’s are killed every year without their permission. Life gets cheaper and cheaper. One doctor killed his newborn son because he was had Downs. No punishment because the court said he felt he was doing what was best for the child.
Euthanasia targets the sick , the elderly, the disabled. Eventually making it a duty to die In the end people don’t need a law to kill themselves. The means are all around them.
Sorry this was a little disjointed. I have distractions around me but this is a subject that I am very passionate about and wanted to(hopefully) give you some help.
 
Search information on the Netherlands. Euthanasia has been legal there for quite some time. As time goes on it gets easier and easier to kill people. WITHOUT their permission. OSV has done some excellant articles on it. One story was about a Catholic nun who was euthanized by a doctor who said he did it because he felt she didn’t ask because of her faith. duh! As far as I know he was not charged with any crime. Some research says that 1000’s are killed every year without their permission. Life gets cheaper and cheaper. One doctor killed his newborn son because he was had Downs. No punishment because the court said he felt he was doing what was best for the child.
Euthanasia targets the sick , the elderly, the disabled. Eventually making it a duty to die In the end people don’t need a law to kill themselves. The means are all around them.
Sorry this was a little disjointed. I have distractions around me but this is a subject that I am very passionate about and wanted to(hopefully) give you some help.
Hi hazmae, I just wanted to say that I have been pro-euthanasia for a while, but that what you said has made me look at the issue very differently. I have to do more research to make sure that what you say is accurate, but I think you may have convinced me to change my position. I just wanted to let you know that, and thank you for helping me see this issue in a new way.

V
 
Hi hazmae, I just wanted to say that I have been pro-euthanasia for a while, but that what you said has made me look at the issue very differently. I have to do more research to make sure that what you say is accurate, but I think you may have convinced me to change my position. I just wanted to let you know that, and thank you for helping me see this issue in a new way.

V
V,

I did suicide prevention training recently to volunteer for Hopeline’s new online crisis ‘line,’ IMAlive (donations, to the cause–not me–, are very welcome) made me think about the issue differently too. I’m not sure it made me anti-assisted suicide completely but Dr. Quinett (who wrote the texts we used and founded the QPR Institute) discussed the issue a bit.

The issue is tricky. As Dr. Quinett put it in the title of one of his books, suicide (regardless of context) is a forever decision. That said I know there are situations in which I would not want to go on living. Sticky wicket this…
 
One doctor killed his newborn son because he was had Downs. No punishment because the court said he felt he was doing what was best for the child.
Please provide the source of this claim.
 
The Canadian House of Commons defeated a euthanasia bill the other day and many people are shouting “NOOOOOOOOOO!!!” Some people have said “my life, my choice”. I have to admit, that’s a compelling argument. I often say unnatural deaths are against human nature, but can any of you give me secular reasons to oppose euthanasia?
Euthanasia promoters want to legitimize killing by pretending it is a form of health care. They want to be able to choose to die without being responsible for killing themselves. They want the veneer of a medical procedure when really they could just as easily kill themselves. Are these people really too stupid to know how to kill themselves? Of course not. They don’t want choice, they already have that. They want legitimation and they want to pretend that deliberately ending a human life is okay because the ‘caring professional’ in the white coat is in charge, and he or she is just doing his or her job, so no one needs to feel ultimately responsible. You’ll notice that no one promotes lawyer-assisted euthanasia, for example, even though lawyers are surely just as qualified as physicians for the job of killing someone. The “choice” rhetoric, as usual, is nothing but a red herring - or so it seems to me. I think they just don’t want to face the fact that they are afraid of death.
 
Euthanasia promoters want to legitimize killing by pretending it is a form of health care. They want to be able to choose to die without being responsible for killing themselves. They want the veneer of a medical procedure when really they could just as easily kill themselves. Are these people really too stupid to know how to kill themselves? Of course not. They don’t want choice, they already have that. They want legitimation and they want to pretend that deliberately ending a human life is okay because the ‘caring professional’ in the white coat is in charge, and he or she is just doing his or her job, so no one needs to feel ultimately responsible. The “choice” rhetoric, as usual, is nothing but a red herring - or so it seems to me. I think they just don’t want to face the fact that they are afraid of death.
Is someone who’s asking for the legal ability to end one’s own life really afraid of death?
 
Is someone who’s asking for the legal ability to end one’s own life really afraid of death?
I think so, for the reasons I gave. Do you have some other explanation?

Here’s a maybe lame analogy: Imagine someone started campaigning for a legal right to eat KFC. Why would they do this? No one is stopping them from eating KFC. Why do they want a legal right to it? One explanation is that they are afraid of KFC, all that grease flowing through their body, lodging who knows where, but they want to do it anyway and the legalization will make them feel like it’s okay, big brother is watching, he’ll take care of things if something goes wrong. (I don’t want this to get weird, but have you heard of the notion of ‘authenticity’?)
 
A pretty straightforward argument is that legalization implies normalization. When euthanasia is legalized, it is normalized. This means that “Should I kill myself?” becomes a normal question people can ask themselves at a certain point in life. This has a twofold effect: First, people who are already in a difficult stage of life where they might feel bad for burdening others often have the thought forced upon them: “Should I have myself killed? Matilda down the hall did, now she’s not a burden any more to her family or the staff here or society. Maybe I ought to as well…” People don’t choose these thoughts - normalization brings them about. Second, people who are burdened by loved ones also are subject to such thoughts: “Maybe it would be nice if Dad would have himself killed… That’s what Bob’s Dad did. It’s not that I don’t love him, but…” Again, when it’s all nice and legal, this kind of thought becomes normal and to some extent inevitable. And isn’t it obvious that these kinds of thoughts are not the kind of thing we want to promote, that this kind of normalization of convenience killing is destructive of an appropriately caring view of the elderly and disabled and sick, and thus destructive of the foundations of a caring compassionate society?
 
The Canadian House of Commons defeated a euthanasia bill the other day and many people are shouting “NOOOOOOOOOO!!!” Some people have said “my life, my choice”. I have to admit, that’s a compelling argument. I often say unnatural deaths are against human nature, but can any of you give me secular reasons to oppose euthanasia?
A logical reason against it is that the premise “my life” is false. Our lives are not ours. Our life is a gift from God which we have been given stewardship over. We have no authority to interfere and accelerate natural death.

Since is not our life, it is not our choice.
 
I think so, for the reasons I gave. Do you have some other explanation?

Here’s a maybe lame analogy: Imagine someone started campaigning for a legal right to eat KFC. Why would they do this? No one is stopping them from eating KFC. Why do they want a legal right to it? One explanation is that they are afraid of KFC, all that grease flowing through their body, lodging who knows where, but they want to do it anyway and the legalization will make them feel like it’s okay, big brother is watching, he’ll take care of things if something goes wrong. (I don’t want this to get weird, but have you heard of the notion of ‘authenticity’?)
I think it would be more like if you got within 100 feet of a KFC you ran a one in four risk of being shot, stabbed, disemboweled, raper or robbed.

Most people who are in a terminal sort of situation are physically incapable of completing a suicide; they want the legal right to die safely (i.e. without the risk of worsening their condition but going on living–a botched suicide attempt can result in quite a horrifying condition), quickly and as painlessly as possible.

Without getting into the abortion debate as such I think that may be a parallel; even when they were illegal women could still find somewhere to get abortion but legalization made them considerably safer and much more accessible.
 
A logical reason against it is that the premise “my life” is false. Our lives are not ours. Our life is a gift from God which we have been given stewardship over. We have no authority to interfere and accelerate natural death.

Since is not our life, it is not our choice.
I think you missed the part where he said ‘secular’…
 
As a student nurse I worked in elder care, and we had “hospice” beds on site.

I noticed that patients with terminal illnesses don’t want to be killed, they want to die without pain, that they’re comfortable in their final moments and that their families have said their goodbyes.

Now I’m a nurse, I get to see it a little more up front and with a lot more responsibility involved.

There is no such thing as “death with dignity”, however, you can live with dignity whilst dying! There is no such thing as a “right to die”, we’re all going to die, its a stupid play on words to suggest you have a right to do it.

It is, instead, a right for someone else to kill you. There is no dignity in being killed. It is the medical profession in conjunction with family and society or whoever, telling you your life is worth jack and that you’re better off dead.

Its very cheap to kill someone. Its not so cheap to keep them pain free in their final days. Good palliative care is the key.

I have seen people die hideous deaths because they fell through the system and didn’t get good palliative care. Yet, I have seen people with worse conditions die peacefully, naturally, surrounded by friends and family and loved ones.

When a person dies they don’t leave some void. They leave a family, they leave friends, it is those people who will remember that loved one’s death. And beleive you me, people remember a bad death. I’ve noted that patients who have wittnessed other family members die horribly, either due to lack of pallitive care or from some other sudden trauma, often have fears about their own dying process, and so, became rather afraid, they hear the stories on the news about people wanting to “die with dignity” and they end up thinking that it sounds right for them, without understanding that the experience their family member/friend had is not the norm.

People with terminal illnesses, or who are otherwise dying are not morons. They can make their own decisions, and ususally its not “please kill me” its usually “please, I dont’ want it to hurt”.

Generally when people reach the final stages of a terminal illness they are “ready”, they have been, hopefully, given the information about the disease process at this stage, they don’t fear it, what they want is good pain and symptom management.

Its 2010, people, at least in modern societies don’t need to die in pain, wallowing in their own faeces. It would be beneficial to all concerned in end of life decision making if the media STFU about horrible cases where care plans were not followed through, where the patient was obviously neglected and where everyone had the wrong end of the stick.

As the saying goes, hard cases make bad laws. The mess the Netherlands have created for themselves is a prime example of that.

I heard a story of an old woman with no family and very little money who according to doctors “made her end of life choice”, and before her bed in the pricey hospital was cold, the chairman of the hospitals board was admitted.
 
Secular argument against euthanasia is - who decides who gets euthanasized? What criteria do they use? If doctors decide - well, doctors are far from infallible. In my own experience, we were told my mother-in-law was going to die - but she pulled through. My father-in-law underwent surgery where they all said he was healthy enough for it - and he died. Doctors face economic pressures - are we sure they won’t be making these decisions based on finances?

If patients decide - if someone is depressed, do they get to decide to kill themselves? Don’t many patients with debilitating illnesses also get depressed? So how do we know if the decision is the result of the depression or not? How do we know they’re not being pressured by family members / medical staff to do it for financial reasons?

What criteria would be used to decide who gets killed and who doesn’t? Do Down’s syndrome babies get killed? Anyone over 90? People with cancer? People with no insurance? How do you set up guidelines for whose life is expendable?

The problem with dealing with this is that it is impossible to do it in a just way (because it is an intrinsically unjust action).
 
I think they just don’t want to face the fact that they are afraid of death.
Please explain the logic. How do you figure that someone who is afraid of death, would advocate for the right to cause their own death?

That would be like someone who’s afraid of the dark, asking to be locked inside of a dark room.
 
Please explain the logic. How do you figure that someone who is afraid of death, would advocate for the right to cause their own death?

That would be like someone who’s afraid of the dark, asking to be locked inside of a dark room.
He did above; replicated here for convenience.
I think so, for the reasons I gave. Do you have some other explanation?

Here’s a maybe lame analogy: Imagine someone started campaigning for a legal right to eat KFC. Why would they do this? No one is stopping them from eating KFC. Why do they want a legal right to it? One explanation is that they are afraid of KFC, all that grease flowing through their body, lodging who knows where, but they want to do it anyway and the legalization will make them feel like it’s okay, big brother is watching, he’ll take care of things if something goes wrong. (I don’t want this to get weird, but have you heard of the notion of ‘authenticity’?)
For what it’s worth I replied above.
 
The Canadian House of Commons defeated a euthanasia bill the other day and many people are shouting “NOOOOOOOOOO!!!” Some people have said “my life, my choice”. I have to admit, that’s a compelling argument. I often say unnatural deaths are against human nature, but can any of you give me secular reasons to oppose euthanasia?
Why do you need euthanasia, anyone can kill themselves any time they want. With euthanasia you are asking someone else to become a murderer of them or an accessory to the murder of them. That is an unfair and always an illegal action to request from anyone. How are we to legally define murder when every case could potentially qualify murders definition. Murder by request? Just change the name and you change the act…:confused:
 
Search information on the Netherlands. Euthanasia has been legal there for quite some time. As time goes on it gets easier and easier to kill people. WITHOUT their permission. OSV has done some excellant articles on it. One story was about a Catholic nun who was euthanized by a doctor who said he did it because he felt she didn’t ask because of her faith. duh! As far as I know he was not charged with any crime. Some research says that 1000’s are killed every year without their permission. Life gets cheaper and cheaper. One doctor killed his newborn son because he was had Downs. No punishment because the court said he felt he was doing what was best for the child.
Euthanasia targets the sick , the elderly, the disabled. Eventually making it a duty to die In the end people don’t need a law to kill themselves. The means are all around them.
Sorry this was a little disjointed. I have distractions around me but this is a subject that I am very passionate about and wanted to(hopefully) give you some help.
Do you have links for news stories on those?
 
Why do you need euthanasia, anyone can kill themselves any time they want.
Is this true? I never really contemplated how I would do it if I were to do it. Does a bed-bound elderly person have the ability to kill him or herself? How would they do it?

Best,
Leela
 
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