Can someone give me a secular argument against euthanasia?

[Thing]

…
Without getting into the abortion debate as such I think that may be a parallel; even when they were illegal women could still find somewhere to get abortion but legalization made them considerably safer and much more accessible.

Do you think the aborted babies want to keep on living or did they want to die?..

 

[Thing]

Is this true? I never really contemplated how I would do it if I were to do it. Does a bed-bound elderly person have the ability to kill him or herself? How would they do it?

Best,
Leela

You would like to help them kill themselves, Leela? Or, offer them palliative care and friendly company instead.

 

[ThomasToo]

Do you think the aborted babies want to keep on living or did they want to die?..

We’re not getting into this here, there are plenty of discussions on abortion on these boards. My point was only that legality implies safety and illegality implies the opposite.

 

[Thing]

We’re not getting into this here, there are plenty of discussions on abortion on these boards. My point was only that legality implies safety and illegality implies the opposite.

You don’t have to get into it, only think about it. After all, if you were killed legally or illegally, safely or unsafely before you were born you would not have the pleasure of discussing or thinking about these things here, now.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Can someone give me a secular argument against euthanasia?

Yes. Our godless government will take it over and eventually use it to kill “useless” citizens, as they did seventy years ago in Germany.

The world has to keep learning the same old wisdom every generation.

“Those who refuse to learn from the past, are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana

 

[ThomasToo]

Can someone give me a secular argument against euthanasia?

Yes. Our godless government will take it over and eventually use it to kill “useless” citizens, as they did seventy years ago in Germany.

The world has to keep learning the same old wisdom every generation.

“Those who refuse to learn from the past, are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana

I’m not up on 1930s German history but I don’t recall death with dignity being on the National Socialist speaking points. Was right to die legislation passed back then that I don’t know about?

 

[Leela]

You would like to help them kill themselves, Leela? Or, offer them palliative care and friendly company instead.

We weren’t talking about killing them, were we? I was asking about whether, as some here have claimed, everyone really does have the ability to kill one’s self. I’m not convinced that a bed bound elderly person really has this ability.

Also, is there a difference between providing someone with the means to painlessly end one’s life and actually killing them? I think so. That is where the doctors come in, right? If it were legal, a doctor could provide a patient with the means to take her own life.

Best,
Leela

 

[Thing]

We weren’t talking about killing them, were we? I was asking about whether, as some here have claimed, everyone really does have the ability to kill one’s self. I’m not convinced that a bed bound elderly person really has this ability.

Also, is there a difference between providing someone with the means to painlessly end one’s life and actually killing them? I think so. That is where the doctors come in, right? If it were legal, a doctor could provide a patient with the means to take her own life.

Best,
Leela

I don’t think there is any difference between killing someone at their request and making sure they are are able to kill themselves. If there is any difference at all it is only that in the second instance you try to fool yourself when you argue that you are doing nothing wrong by helping them kill themselves; you are admitting that you know killing is wrong - and that you will help them to kill.

 

[Zatzat]

Why do you need euthanasia, anyone can kill themselves any time they want.

Some people are so ill that they aren’t able to end their own lives.

Some terminally ill, their life insurance policies would become null and void should they take their own life…so they don’t instead, they suffer needlessly waiting for the end.

Some people want the choice, that they should be able to have their lives ended humanely via narcotic, rather than their having to go and commit an extreme act of violence upon their bodies…an act of violence that doesn’t even guarantee the desired end.

With euthanasia you are asking someone else to become a murderer of them or an accessory to the murder of them.

That’s why it’s called euthanasia and not murder.

 

[Zatzat]

For the record…hazmae, posted what he’s passed off as facts and that favour his position on the subject…two posters have asked him to cite his sources…

Still waiting.

 

[Thing]

Some people are so ill that they aren’t able to end their own lives.

To be honest I do sometimes wonder if medicine does not prolong life too much, I would hope, in my case, that people just leave me alone and let me die naturally on the top of some nice dry mountain.

Some terminally ill, their life insurance policies would become null and void should they take their own life…so they don’t instead, they suffer needlessly waiting for the end.

Terminally ill? Wonderful, the final victory of accountancy over humanity.

Some people want the choice, that they should be able to have their lives ended humanely via narcotic, rather than their having to go and commit an extreme act of violence upon their bodies…an act of violence that doesn’t even guarantee the desired end.

There is also the violence on humanity of euthanasia… violence on a sensitive human mind forced to kill.
Palliative care is very good these days.

That’s why it’s called euthanasia and not murder.

A rose by any other name…

 

[Zatzat]

To be honest I do sometimes wonder if medicine does not prolong life too much, I would hope, in my case, that people just leave me alone and let me die naturally on the top of some nice dry mountain.

My 103 year old grandma shattered her hip for the third time, only that time, there was nothing that could be done for her. She died naturally and in terrible agony. But hey it was natural and it only took 12 days horrific days where her every waking moment was gut wrenchingly horrific.

Controlling the pain? Barely took the edge off and even a specialist in pain control couldn’t keep the agony away. Of course, she fell into a coma on the 10th or 11th day…

Natural death ain’t all that it’s cut out to be. Why people aren’t given the choice to speed up the inevitable utterly ridiculous.

If this God is real, why he’d let one of his 103 year old believers agonize and die in such a way…pointless, absurd and disgusting.

Terminally ill? Wonderful, the final victory of accountancy over humanity.

Do you sincerely believe that people who know they’re going to die, don’t worry, stress and concern themselves with the financial state in which they’ll be leaving their loved ones?

You serious?

 

[ThomasToo]

My 103 year old grandma shattered her hip for the third time, only that time, there was nothing that could be done for her. She died naturally and in terrible agony. But hey it was natural and it only took 12 days horrific days where her every waking moment was gut wrenchingly horrific.

Controlling the pain? Barely took the edge off and even a specialist in pain control couldn’t keep the agony away. Of course, she fell into a coma on the 10th or 11th day…

Natural death ain’t all that it’s cut out to be. Why people aren’t given the choice to speed up the inevitable utterly ridiculous.

If this God is real, why he’d let one of his 103 year old believers agonize and die in such a way…pointless, absurd and disgusting.

Do you sincerely believe that people who know they’re going to die, don’t worry, stress and concern themselves with the financial state in which they’ll be leaving their loved ones?

You serious?

I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope people don’t try to editorialize or profit (argumentatively) from your pain.

 

[Zatzat]

To be honest I do sometimes wonder if medicine does not prolong life too much, I would hope, in my case, that people just leave me alone and let me die naturally on the top of some nice dry mountain.

Terminally ill? Wonderful, the final victory of accountancy over humanity.

There is also the violence on humanity of euthanasia… violence on a sensitive human mind forced to kill.
Palliative care is very good these days.

A rose by any other name…

 

[Thing]

Nope. How often have you heard our WWII vets called murderers after they kill people in combat?

How many of your fellow Catholics who are pro capital punishment, call the death penalty murder? Have you ever heard a pro capital punishment Catholic utter;

’ I approve of murdering criminals’.

Exactly.

You are of the opinion that war is good? Killing criminals is good?
Killing with euthanasia is good?

War is inevitable, sooner or later someone will bring war and death to your door. But its never a good thing.
Theres nothing good in killing criminals. Accountants might argue, but not many other people.
Theres nothing good in killing the old, the sick, the confused or the hopeless.

 

[Zatzat]

You are of the opinion that war is good?

War is bad, but it can be good if waged for a just cause.

Killing criminals is good?

In some cases, yes.

War is inevitable, sooner or later someone will bring war and death to your door. But its never a good thing.

War is good if it keeps the ’ enemy’ from killing my family or neighbours.

Theres nothing good in killing criminals.

They won’t kill again…that’s a good thing.

Theres nothing good in killing the old, the sick, the confused or the hopeless.

If a person of sound mind who’s terminally ill and they see the benefit in ending their life with dignity, then that should be their right, whether or not you think it’s good…it should be their right.

 

[Thing]

If a person of sound mind who’s terminally ill and they see the benefit in ending their life with dignity, then that should be their right, whether or not you think it’s good…it should be their right.

It cannot be their right to make someone else a killer.

 

[Zatzat]

It cannot be their right to make someone else a killer.

If the other party consents to assist with the death and the practice is sanctioned by the State.

Please explain why can it not be a right for one to request death and another to assist in administering the death?

 

[Thing]

If the other party consents to assist with the death and the practice is sanctioned by the State.

Please explain why can it not be a right for one to request death and another to assist in administering the death?

Difficult as it may be for you to understand, most people do not want to kill other people, and would not do it even if it were legal. And by making it legal the state forces, in the case of the medical profession, them to kill, and, with most medical people, against their personal wishes.

 

[ThomasToo]

It cannot be their right to make someone else a killer.

Does that mean we have a right to not be drafted as well?