Can someone go to hell becuase no one prayed for them?

[300WhiteKnights]

According to the messages of Fatima, Mary is reported saying, **“So many souls go to Hell because no one prays for them.” **To me this seems extreamly unfair and I do not understand this at all. She seems to suggest that the salvation of an evil soul arbitrarily depends if people know him/her and pray for the person. It seems inconcieveable to me that there are people in Hell right now because NO ONE prayed for them, while there are people in Heaven right now simply because people DID pray for them.

Let me draw this out this on a diagram:

For the sake of argument lets say there are two equally evil souls on their way to hell.
Person 1 was born in China,where most people are Buddist and do not believe in God. As a result, no one prayed for this evil soul, so Person 1 never became good and went to Hell. (Im not saying Buddists are evil, Im just using a setting where no one prays to God)

Person 2 on the other hand was born in America, where there is a high Christian population. Person 2 was extreamly anti-christian and helped women preform abortions. Since Person 2 made the news quite often, he was well known and many people prayed for his soul. As a result, Person 2 turned from his ways when he died and went to heaven

Person 1
-Evil
-Not prayed for
-Not well known
-Went to Hell

       ** Person 2  **

-Evil
-Was prayed for by many people
-Was well known
-Went to Heaven

So in the end, you have two equaly evil people. But one goes to Heaven and the other goes to Hell simply because one was born into a setting where people were more prone to pray for evil souls.
Do you see my point? Please help me understand, thank you for your time

 

[3DOCTORS]

This question has troubled me too, and actually I would encourage you to submit it to Ask An Apologist, it’s that powerful of a question.

For my own take, I reflected upon it and - though this may not address every aspect, I am wondering if the Blessed Mother is really trying to get across a message of solidarity. That we are one family, in this together, and no one is a lone wolf. That we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, from the greatest to the least.

Also I do pray for the world and for those who have no one to pray for them, and I suspect good Christians for centuries have been doing the same.

So I don’t know; I can’t presume to know why Mary said that - I mean, I don’t think she’d lie to us, but maybe there’s a larger context to it . . .

 

[300WhiteKnights]

Thank you for your response. I will submit this to an apologist.

 

[Little_One0307]

I will be watching if the apologists answer this with interest.

God bless.

 

[kimmielittle]

 

[on_eagles_wingz]

Im not aware of any messages from Fatima except for the 3 secrets, and I can’t help but question the accuracy of that message because in Medjugorje, Mary says that many souls remain in purgatory because no one prays for them.

I hope someone else can verify if that message is truly from Fatima and is accurate.

 

[CountrySteve]

 

[MtnDwellar]

I think that the full sentence was, “Pray, pray very much, and make sacrifices for sinners, since so many souls go to hell because no one make sacrifices and prays for them.”

I think that she meant pray for people who are alive so that they may receive God’s grace before death.

 

[WesleyF]

This one is actually not very difficult to answer.

1. God gives sufficient grace for each person to be saved.
2. Sufficient grace means sufficient grace and should be enough for the person to choose salvation.
3. When we pray for a sinner, God gives them additional grace than what is sufficient. This extra grace may move the sinner to repentance and he/she may choose to respond to that grace or not respond to that grace.

So in the end, one goes to hell because one failed to choose to respond to the sufficient grace that God gave that person to be saved. Additional grace is an added bonus and is strictly not necessary.

So what our Lady is saying is that in order to save more people we should pray that they receive more grace than what they need, so that more people might choose salvation. This is not a case of God being unjust, but it is a case of God being generous with his grace, similar to the case of the parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-15), where the master was generous in giving latecomers more than what they deserved, at which the others grumbled.

St. Monica prayed a lot for her son Augustine and then he was converted. Augustine received more grace than was necessary for him to be saved. But that does not mean that he didn’t have sufficient grace to be saved.

Look at it this way - if each person was “full of grace” like Mary, then no one would go to hell. But God, in his providence has not done that. He has chosen to give sufficient grace to everyone. But we should pray that he give us additional grace so that we may not turn away from him.

 

[coco2]

Im not aware of any messages from Fatima except for the 3 secrets, and I can’t help but question the accuracy of that message because in Medjugorje, Mary says that many souls remain in purgatory because no one prays for them.

I hope someone else can verify if that message is truly from Fatima and is accurate.

The Church has not given the ok for messages given in Medjugorje. I’m reading St. Lucia’s book now. I’ll let you know when I finish.

 

[kimmielittle]

This one is actually not very difficult to answer.

1. God gives sufficient grace for each person to be saved.
2. Sufficient grace means sufficient grace and should be enough for the person to choose salvation.
3. When we pray for a sinner, God gives them additional grace than what is sufficient. This extra grace may move the sinner to repentance and he/she may choose to respond to that grace or not respond to that grace.

So in the end, one goes to hell because one failed to choose to respond to the sufficient grace that God gave that person to be saved. Additional grace is an added bonus and is strictly not necessary.

So what our Lady is saying is that in order to save more people we should pray that they receive more grace than what they need, so that more people might choose salvation. This is not a case of God being unjust, but it is a case of God being generous with his grace, similar to the case of the parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-15), where the master was generous in giving latecomers more than what they deserved, at which the others grumbled.

St. Monica prayed a lot for her son Augustine and then he was converted. Augustine received more grace than was necessary for him to be saved. But that does not mean that he didn’t have sufficient grace to be saved.

Look at it this way - if each person was “full of grace” like Mary, then no one would go to hell. But God, in his providence has not done that. He has chosen to give sufficient grace to everyone. But we should pray that he give us additional grace so that we may not turn away from him.

AHAaaaaaaaa Thank you

 

[Dorothy]

The only (name removed by moderator)ut I can give is that when there is something reported from private revelation and it doesn’t sound quite right, and the private revelation was approved by the Church, then it needs further clarification.

 

[Little_One0307]

Hiya,

This is something I responded to in another thread. I wanted to share it as it might help with this one. For the scenario you can substitute the OP’s scenarios.

Thank you for your reply. Whether or not the young man is going to go to heaven, hell, or purgatory is known to God alone. At the moment of separation between body and soul, according to Catholic dogma [a divinely revelaed truth solemnly defined by the Church as such] we undergo what is called the particular judgement. We appear immediately before Our Lord Jesus Christ and are admitted straigthway into heaven, or detained in purgatory, or God forbid, we are condemned to Hell. (Anyone who goes to Purgatory is saved).

Regarding the young man, did he hate God with an unwavering hatred? You might find it hard to believe, but there are actually persons who hate God…

There are so many unknown questions about a person that only God can answer. Hence, the Church never says who is in Hell and who is not in Hell. It cannot…judgement is reserved to God alone.

What is certain is that this young man will undergo the particular judgement…the outcome is known to God alone.

I would like to share with you one of my favorite quotes, “today’s sinner may become tomorrow’s saint.”

God bless.

Also you have to take into account this.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

paragraph 847

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

paragraph 848

Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

---

Only God knows in the end.

God bless.

 

[jsaldar]

I think that the full sentence was, “Pray, pray very much, and make sacrifices for sinners, since so many souls go to hell because no one make sacrifices and prays for them.”

I think that she meant pray for people who are alive so that they may receive God’s grace before death.

I agree this is what she meant.

The church teaches that those who die in a state of mortal sin go straight to hell. Those with venial sin go to purgatory where the prayers of the faithfull help them make their stay there shorter.

In other words if both of these people die in a state of mortal sin, then both of them go to hell; no prayers can save them.

On the other hand, if they repent before death and accept Jesus Christ then by his mercy they have a chance and are sent to purgatory where they recieve prayers from the faithfull to shorten their suffering.

Once in purgatory the soul is being purified so to speak; it has been saved and will not go to hell.

One can only go to hell when in the state of mortal sin.

Death seals the fate of the person. If you repent it has to be before death.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiya,

This is something I responded to in another thread. I wanted to share it as it might help with this one. For the scenario you can substitute the OP’s scenarios.

Also you have to take into account this.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

paragraph 847

paragraph 848

---

Only God knows in the end.

God bless.

 

[300WhiteKnights]

This one is actually not very difficult to answer.

1. God gives sufficient grace for each person to be saved.
2. Sufficient grace means sufficient grace and should be enough for the person to choose salvation.
3. When we pray for a sinner, God gives them additional grace than what is sufficient. This extra grace may move the sinner to repentance and he/she may choose to respond to that grace or not respond to that grace.

So in the end, one goes to hell because one failed to choose to respond to the sufficient grace that God gave that person to be saved. Additional grace is an added bonus and is strictly not necessary.

So what our Lady is saying is that in order to save more people we should pray that they receive more grace than what they need, so that more people might choose salvation. This is not a case of God being unjust, but it is a case of God being generous with his grace, similar to the case of the parable of the laborers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-15), where the master was generous in giving latecomers more than what they deserved, at which the others grumbled.

St. Monica prayed a lot for her son Augustine and then he was converted. Augustine received more grace than was necessary for him to be saved. But that does not mean that he didn’t have sufficient grace to be saved.

Look at it this way - if each person was “full of grace” like Mary, then no one would go to hell. But God, in his providence has not done that. He has chosen to give sufficient grace to everyone. But we should pray that he give us additional grace so that we may not turn away from him.

But remember what Mary said earlier: “So many souls go to Hell because no one prays for them.”

Correct me if I am wrong, I understand that initially everyone has received sufficient grace to be saved, but here she seems to be saying that there are souls who NEEDED that bonus grace to be saved but did not get it because they were not prayed for. And that is where I stumble a bit.

 

[PJM]

=300WhiteKnights;8132609]According to the messages of Fatima, Mary is reported saying, **“So many souls go to Hell because no one prays for them.” **To me this seems extreamly unfair and I do not understand this at all. She seems to suggest that the salvation of an evil soul arbitrarily depends if people know him/her and pray for the person. It seems inconcieveable to me that there are people in Hell right now because NO ONE prayed for them, while there are people in Heaven right now simply because people DID pray for them.

Let me draw this out this on a diagram:

For the sake of argument lets say there are two equally evil souls on their way to hell.
Person 1 was born in China,where most people are Buddist and do not believe in God. As a result, no one prayed for this evil soul, so Person 1 never became good and went to Hell. (Im not saying Buddists are evil, Im just using a setting where no one prays to God)

Person 2 on the other hand was born in America, where there is a high Christian population. Person 2 was extreamly anti-christian and helped women preform abortions. Since Person 2 made the news quite often, he was well known and many people prayed for his soul. As a result, Person 2 turned from his ways when he died and went to heaven

Person 1
-Evil
-Not prayed for
-Not well known
-Went to Hell

       ** Person 2  **

-Evil
-Was prayed for by many people
-Was well known
-Went to Heaven

So in the end, you have two equaly evil people. But one goes to Heaven and the other goes to Hell simply because one was born into a setting where people were more prone to pray for evil souls.
Do you see my point? Please help me understand, thank you for your time

My dear friend in Christ;

Its an interestering thought but your puzzel is missing some key pieces.

In understanding God we are confronted with the fact that God made us all “the same” in His Image. [Gen. 1:26-27] Parts of the imatation of our God are OUR Spiritual attributes of a mind, intellect, freewill all connected to our souls.

These Gifts are given to everyone along with an offer of “sufficient grace” to enable every human person to be ABLE TO [if they freely choose to do so], Know Love and serve our Lord-God.

Many choose NOT to accept the grace or to apply it fully as God intends. So ones final Eternal location is up to each of us as individuals. A product of our owm life choices.

Justification REQUIRES Grace which can ONLY be iniated by God. Therefore PRAYERS for one such as you describe MIGHT influence God;s Mercy and enable one to have more than a single opportunity to cooperate FREELY with God’s call; God’s Grace. … BUT the option is God’s and many factors come into play. What ever God decides MUST be good, perfect anf right [just and fair] or God could not be God. God too is a God of Faith, Hope and LOVE!

One who neither prays or has someone to pray for them is deprived of the possibility [usually] of additional chances influenced by prayer; but that in no way Makes God unjust, or unfair because everyone has at least the ONE chance [which fulfills God’s obligation] to receive and accept Gods grace.

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Catholic90]

Too many forget that people are saved through OUR actions, but through Jesus.

 

[puzzleannie]

But remember what Mary said earlier: “So many souls go to Hell because no one prays for them.”

bit.

please provide a source with an exact quote because this is not my recollection in what I have read about the Fatima messages

 

[WesleyF]

But remember what Mary said earlier: “So many souls go to Hell because no one prays for them.”

Correct me if I am wrong, I understand that initially everyone has received sufficient grace to be saved, but here she seems to be saying that there are souls who NEEDED that bonus grace to be saved but did not get it because they were not prayed for. And that is where I stumble a bit.

I think Mary spoke those words as a mother and not as an analyst. Mary could have easily said, “So many souls go to hell because they do not respond to the sufficient grace given to them.” But that is not how a mother speaks. A mother wants more help than necessary to be given to her (potential) children to be saved. So she adjures us, her children, to pray for them, as though their salvation was dependent on our prayers. In a way it is, but in a way it is not. But by speaking in a way that makes the salvation of sinners dependent on our prayers, Mary is urging us all the more to pray for them.

So I would take Mary’s words in that sense.