Can someone help me come up with a response to pro-choice attacks?

[limerick]

limerick;5214252:

I am not ranting. I simply stated that if my daughter got raped, she would carry the baby to full term and then we would decide whether it would be better to place the baby for adoptive care or keept he baby in our home.

That is a true statement based on my beliefs, my husband’s beliefs and my daughter’s beliefs. How is that ranting? I was simply pointing out that my daugther has the sense to know that carrying the baby to term would be the only option and that would be God’s will.

You are the one that claimed I would be “forcing” her in her decisions. Therefore, you put the “rant” in the comment. I was not ranting (and still am not ranting).

Further, I totally agree with AKG: “Rape, schmape…” Killing an innocent human being is killing an innocent human being no matter how well you sugar-coat it.

**Your compassion underwhelms me.

L**

 

[buffalo]

**Look, folks, post here only if you agree with the original poster. If you are pro-choice, realize that the word “choice” is not to be understood on this forum.

Limerick**

I understand choice pretty well - pro-choice- the choice a woman wants to make to murder her unborn child who is denied the choice and the protections of the Constitution.

 

[RosaryFan]

RosaryFan;5215267:

**Your compassion underwhelms me.

L**

Sorry, Limierick, but my compassion goes to the unborn. They don’t have a voice.

 

[Ruthie]

I don’t think anyone is thinking of adoption as an easy way to “get rid of” a baby. The difference between deciding to kill the baby and deciding to give him/her up for adoption is that, in the second case, the mother knows that she is doing the right thing, and making both the baby and the adopting family happy.

As for the original topic:

“Why wouldn’t you abort your child? What if your daughter got raped by a violent thug, would you keep that baby? I would forget the so called “God” and kill the child.”

“I’m glad you admit that abortion is killing a child. If it is wrong to kill a child outside the womb, it is just as wrong to do it inside.”

“Blah blah blah. I would like to see your daughter raise a child after being raped at the age of 14. I bet that would make some music sensation. He would probably get MTV awards too.”

There are mothers who have kept such babies, and mothers who give them up for adoption. The circumstances under which he/she was conceived should not stigmatize the baby. (Or the mother. Only the rapist is to blame.) The baby has the same right to life as any other child.

A quote from this article:

Jennifer is definitely pro-life. We asked her about the popular opinion that rape victims should be given abortions, that it’s the kindest thing one can do for the baby. Jennifer’s reply was adamant. She doesn’t think anybody should have had the right to kill her as a fetus. “It’s like a mercy killing. I don’t want people who are not in my circumstances making decisions for me. It’s my right to decide whether to be alive or not.”

Every human alive is glad their mother didn’t have an abortion. The child in the womb has no way to express their desire for life, except to grow.

Jeanne, I suspect that you won’t get through to this guy. I suspect that he may be in that group who thinks that any life that is a burden on family and/or society is worthless. If he is any kind of scientist, or has an interest in astronomy/cosmology, he will have heard of Stephen Hawking. Ask him if that is a worthless life.

There is also my cousin, the thoracic surgeon; how many lives has he saved? I don’t know. I do know he had to have lifesaving, expensive surgery just after he was born. Peter Singer, guru of the “worthless lives” idea, would have let him die.

There are other examples out there - but don’t use Beethoven. That story has been “debunked” for a long time.

As for being just a fetus, or just a blob of cells, you could show him the following picture. Caution! it is a very graphic post-abortion picture of part of a 7-wk old "fetus." I hate looking at it.

Here’s a good article from This Rock.

And another.

More.

Find more yourself: Click on “Faith” at the very top of this page. Then go to “search” in the upper left corner. Type in one of these three:
abortion
pro-life arguments
pro-choice arguments

There is a lot of good stuff in that library. Reading there is what brought me to the Catholic church.

Heart of Jesus, our life and resurrection, have mercy on us.

Ruthie

 

[Snerticus]

Hi there,

Well, I need some help coming up with a response to these statements

“Why wouldn’t you abort your child? What if your daughter got raped by a violent thug, would you keep that baby? I would forget the so called “God” and kill the child.”

and I respond:

“Well, what if your mom was raped by some violent thug?? I bet you’re glad that she carried you for nine months and gave you the chance to make something out of your life. And also, if a baby is born out of rape, incest, or whatever, it dosen’t make it any less of a human being. The child could grow up to cure cancer, be president, or the next music sensation.”

and they respond:

“Blah blah blah. I would like to see your daughter raise a child after being raped at the age of 14. I bet that would make some music sensation. He would probably get MTV awards too.”

Can someone help me out here?

-Jeanne

Wow, I don’t really think there is any way to reason with this person. They have such a warped mind that they actually WANT to see someone’s 14 year old daughter raped and that in itself should throw up red flags to gracefully leave the conversation. Just pray for this person, they really need it.

Snert

 

[fix]

One thing: Don’t let them get away with calling infanticide pro-CHOICE. And don’t you allow them to define that term as such.

They are in favor of ABORTION. Never let them hide from that.

Good point.

 

[fix]

**Look, folks, post here only if you agree with the original poster. If you are pro-choice, realize that the word “choice” is not to be understood on this forum.

Limerick**

It is understood correctly in this context.

 

[Spirithound]

“Blah blah blah. I would like to see your daughter raise a child after being raped at the age of 14. I bet that would make some music sensation. He would probably get MTV awards too.”

Can someone help me out here?

-Jeanne

Adoption

 

[kage_ar]

What on EARTH does an MTV award have to do with rape and abortion?

 

[Des]

Your compassion underwhelms me.

L

As does yours. You see, the abortion side of rape only cares about the one victim while creating another on their own through neglect and murder of the unborn. The pro life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simutaneously protecting the other. You want to murder and ‘hope’ it solves the problem of the rape victim who may have to go awhile longer with the child while awaiting the adoption, meanwhile you are all to quick to give a death sentence to an unborn human being as if you should possess such authority. Thinking such as yours is like a disease to society and quite sickening to read.

 

[Snerticus]

What on EARTH does an MTV award have to do with rape and abortion?

I think it just clarifies the mindset of this person.

 

[limerick]

It is understood correctly in this context.

**In what context? The narrow context of presumption and crystal balls and divining a woman’s future behaviors and decisions?

Limerick**

 

[limerick]

RosaryFan;5215267:

I don’t really think that it would matter if you forced your daughter to keep the child. If she is under your care it is fully your right. **Just because someone has the choice to do something does not mean they will make the right choices **

and in that case I seriously doubt they would. I would not hesitate to make the right choice for my child if I felt that it was necessary whether they agree or not. I would do everything in my power to help them get through the situation and to realize why I did what I did though.

**My bold, my color, my gripe. Just because someone has the choice to do something does not mean that person is under obligation to make the choice that you would make under the same circumstances. Free will: remember?

And now you have changed your tune with regard to making co-decisions with your family about these difficult circumstances. Which would you actually do? Override a joint decision made by the family or participate in a group effort to find the best solution to the problem? What if you did not agree with your daughter and your husband, and you were adamant that their decision was the wrong decision. What then?

Limerick**

 

[limerick]

As does yours. You see, the abortion side of rape only cares about the one victim while creating another on their own through neglect and murder of the unborn. The pro life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simutaneously protecting the other. You want to murder and ‘hope’ it solves the problem of the rape victim who may have to go awhile longer with the child while awaiting the adoption, meanwhile you are all to quick to give a death sentence to an unborn human being as if you should possess such authority. Thinking such as yours is like a disease to society and quite sickening to read.

**
Whence have you gleaned that I want to murder anyone? I claim no authority in this matter.

You say the pro-life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simultaneously protecting the other. Where were you when I was raped? I guarantee you there was no Welcome Wagon of the Angels in my driveway when I got home, nor was there one for my sister who was raped by a man with a wife and four children at home, a man who had raped five times before. There was no one there for either of us, including our uptight Catholic parents. My father even told my sister she deserved it. He told me nothing because I never confided in him on this or any other subject for the duration of our relationship. That was the only way to survive it.

Neither of us conceived as a result of these acts, but we were damaged. Between us we have over 75 years of therapy and neither of us can be restored or live the lives we could have lived. And this was not my first ride on the sexual assault merry-go-round - my ticket got punched when I was nine years old. In those days, the early 60s, Catholic parents never spoke of these matters to their children because it was filthy, disgusting, nasty and forbidden. That attitude pretty well closed the door to communication.

This is why I am an avid proponent of communication among family members, no matter how personal or painful the topic might be. Without that lives are irreparably shattered.

I support adoption. I also support choice, of which adoption is a component. I will never stand in the way of a woman making a personal decision about her reproductive life. It’s none of my business. Whatever she chooses, for that she will be accountable to God. If I am asked how I see the situation I will offer my opinion, but I will never try to persuade her to choose one option over another. It’s not my call. It’s hers. This is not murder. This is allowing her to exercise Free Will, which was given to her by God to use within the boundaries of her own conscience, and not my conscience. I don’t care if there is one reality or 7 billion realities as we individually see them. I believe there is one God who will call us to judgment and we will be accountable for our sins according to His judgment, not mine and not yours. Hug the commode; I’m not going away.

Limerick **

 

[Des]

Whence have you gleaned that I want to murder anyone? I claim no authority in this matter.

If you are for Choice then you are for abortion. If you are for abortion then you are for the right to kill an innocent life even if you do not believe this. Deep down I don’t know how you cannot see it. Science and logic tells us even though it’s not viable, it’s still a human being.

**

You say the pro-life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simultaneously protecting the other. Where were you when I was raped? I guarantee you there was no Welcome Wagon of the Angels in my driveway when I got home, nor was there one for my sister who was raped by a man with a wife and four children at home, a man who had raped five times before. There was no one there for either of us, including our uptight Catholic parents. My father even told my sister she deserved it. He told me nothing because I never confided in him on this or any other subject for the duration of our relationship. That was the only way to survive it.

**
**I am sorry this happened to you. I’m not sitting here judging you during that time. I’m positive you were a wreck and I’m saddened your parents weren’t there for you. **

What I am against is your current preaching to us how the person inside of a woman’s womb is none of our business if he/she is about to have his/her brains sucked out.

Yes or no. Do you believe a woman who’s a few days shy of giving birth is allowed kill him/her? Can she punch her own stomach if she wanted to and it would be none of your business?

**

Neither of us conceived as a result of these acts, but we were damaged. Between us we have over 75 years of therapy and neither of us can be restored or live the lives we could have lived. And this was not my first ride on the sexual assault merry-go-round - my ticket got punched when I was nine years old. In those days, the early 60s, Catholic parents never spoke of these matters to their children because it was filthy, disgusting, nasty and forbidden. That attitude pretty well closed the door to communication.

**
**Limerick, it’s clear you have been scarred tremendously in your life. This still doesn’t change a wrong to a right. I never claimed that a rape victim isn’t traumatized. What I’m saying is that this rape victim does not own the life inside of her body anymore than she would own it once outside of her body. **

**

This is why I am an avid proponent of communication among family members, no matter how personal or painful the topic might be. Without that lives are irreparably shattered.

**
Good for you.

**

I will never stand in the way of a woman making a personal decision about her reproductive life.

**
Having ownership of a body that holds this child gives no woman the right to never allow it to take his/her first breath. It is a separate individual and not part of the woman’s body as an arm is or a foot is.

**

It’s none of my business. Whatever she chooses, for that she will be accountable to God.

**
So if you saw a woman throw her newborn in the garbage that’s none of your business too? We can extend your logic and say it’s her child she created so her life to take out.

**

If I am asked how I see the situation I will offer my opinion, but I will never try to persuade her to choose one option over another. It’s not my call. It’s hers.

**
What about the unborn’s life. Where is his say in this? You see, you’re for giving any woman the right to kill her unborn child while not once standing up for the unborn’s rights. It comes down to one thing as it always does. You simply do not believe that a fetus is a living human deserving of his/her own rights. I come to this conclusion because NOBODY in their right mind is for the destruction of defenseless persons.

**

This is not murder. This is allowing her to exercise Free Will, which was given to her by God to use within the boundaries of her own conscience, and not my conscience.

**
Is that right. So I can use my own free will to throw a baby in the garbage because it will be too much of a mental strain on me to keep him alive? There is zero logic in your reasoning.

 

[BRZ]

**
Whence have you gleaned that I want to murder anyone? I claim no authority in this matter.

You say the pro-life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simultaneously protecting the other. Where were you when I was raped? I guarantee you there was no Welcome Wagon of the Angels in my driveway when I got home, nor was there one for my sister who was raped by a man with a wife and four children at home, a man who had raped five times before. There was no one there for either of us, including our uptight Catholic parents. My father even told my sister she deserved it. He told me nothing because I never confided in him on this or any other subject for the duration of our relationship. That was the only way to survive it.

Neither of us conceived as a result of these acts, but we were damaged. Between us we have over 75 years of therapy and neither of us can be restored or live the lives we could have lived. And this was not my first ride on the sexual assault merry-go-round - my ticket got punched when I was nine years old. In those days, the early 60s, Catholic parents never spoke of these matters to their children because it was filthy, disgusting, nasty and forbidden. That attitude pretty well closed the door to communication.

This is why I am an avid proponent of communication among family members, no matter how personal or painful the topic might be. Without that lives are irreparably shattered.

I support adoption. I also support choice, of which adoption is a component. I will never stand in the way of a woman making a personal decision about her reproductive life. It’s none of my business. Whatever she chooses, for that she will be accountable to God. If I am asked how I see the situation I will offer my opinion, but I will never try to persuade her to choose one option over another. It’s not my call. It’s hers. This is not murder. This is allowing her to exercise Free Will, which was given to her by God to use within the boundaries of her own conscience, and not my conscience. I don’t care if there is one reality or 7 billion realities as we individually see them. I believe there is one God who will call us to judgment and we will be accountable for our sins according to His judgment, not mine and not yours. Hug the commode; I’m not going away.

Limerick **

Limerick, I am curious if you read my post which was directed to you before. I have read many posts by you in the past and I have read how you have lived a very unfortunate life. I truly am sorry that you had to experience what you did in your life and I mean that. However, I must take out the emotions and tell you that because of your experiences in life, it has severely jaded your perception of reality. I mean that in no offensive way, and it is truly unfortunate because I hate to see anyone’s life ruined by others. This is the sad state of affairs of our world because of Free will. Your right, people have free will but just having free will does not give you the right to do whatever you want. You post how God gave us free will and we should exercise our free will but you fail to see that God gave us our free will in hope that we would always choose him, not the opposite. Choosing to abort a child may be someone exercising her free will but it does not make it right. You are definitely not choosing God regardless of whatever the circumstances. I have nothing but sympathy for those who suffer in their lives, but I respect those who suffer and rise above it, not those who fall under its’ weight and delude themselves into thinking they can continue the cycle of evil that put them in that circumstance to begin with. That may sound harsh but that is the reality of our world. We suffer so that we grow in love, in faith and in life. Without suffering we could never change, never learn. It is a terrible price to pay but no less then what Jesus himself paid for us. You can let your suffering and pain crush you or you can bear the weight of your cross and follow God. Those are the choices we have whether we may like it or not.

 

[survive]

Remind him that the “choice” is the same regardless of the child’s location. What if she chooses to carry the child, then is about to give him/her up for adoption, then changes her mind and decides to keep the baby, then throws the baby under a bus in a fit of panic or rage one day? Is that her business? Is that inevitable? Is that a matter of deciding what to do with her body? Suppose the child is breastfeeding at the time she pulls him/her away and throws him/her under the wheels? It’s the same decision after the baby leaves the mother’s body as it is before.

 

[RobbyS]

Hi there,

Well, I need some help coming up with a response to these statements

“Why wouldn’t you abort your child? What if your daughter got raped by a violent thug, would you keep that baby? I would forget the so called “God” and kill the child.”

and I respond:

“Well, what if your mom was raped by some violent thug?? I bet you’re glad that she carried you for nine months and gave you the chance to make something out of your life. And also, if a baby is born out of rape, incest, or whatever, it dosen’t make it any less of a human being. The child could grow up to cure cancer, be president, or the next music sensation.”

and they respond:

“Blah blah blah. I would like to see your daughter raise a child after being raped at the age of 14. I bet that would make some music sensation. He would probably get MTV awards too.”

Can someone help me out here?

-Jeanne

Every abortion is an act of violence not only to the child but to the mother. The baby is literally torn from the mother’s body. So the girl is raped and then violated in another way.

 

[RobbyS]

**
Whence have you gleaned that I want to murder anyone? I claim no authority in this matter.

You say the pro-life side cares for both wanting to assist the victim with love and compassion while simultaneously protecting the other. Where were you when I was raped? I guarantee you there was no Welcome Wagon of the Angels in my driveway when I got home, nor was there one for my sister who was raped by a man with a wife and four children at home, a man who had raped five times before. There was no one there for either of us, including our uptight Catholic parents. My father even told my sister she deserved it. He told me nothing because I never confided in him on this or any other subject for the duration of our relationship. That was the only way to survive it.

Neither of us conceived as a result of these acts, but we were damaged. Between us we have over 75 years of therapy and neither of us can be restored or live the lives we could have lived. And this was not my first ride on the sexual assault merry-go-round - my ticket got punched when I was nine years old. In those days, the early 60s, Catholic parents never spoke of these matters to their children because it was filthy, disgusting, nasty and forbidden. That attitude pretty well closed the door to communication.

This is why I am an avid proponent of communication among family members, no matter how personal or painful the topic might be. Without that lives are irreparably shattered.

I support adoption. I also support choice, of which adoption is a component. I will never stand in the way of a woman making a personal decision about her reproductive life. It’s none of my business. Whatever she chooses, for that she will be accountable to God. If I am asked how I see the situation I will offer my opinion, but I will never try to persuade her to choose one option over another. It’s not my call. It’s hers. This is not murder. This is allowing her to exercise Free Will, which was given to her by God to use within the boundaries of her own conscience, and not my conscience. I don’t care if there is one reality or 7 billion realities as we individually see them. I believe there is one God who will call us to judgment and we will be accountable for our sins according to His judgment, not mine and not yours. Hug the commode; I’m not going away.

Limerick **

Your case and those of your sister are hardly typical of rape cases. Should the law be made permissive just to to fit cases that are so unusual? Far more common are the cases of very young girls hot on by boys just a few years older, or even young men. Everyone concerned just wants rid of the unwanted child. but mainly the fathers/the parents.

 

[celticsfan1983]

This is slightly on topic, slightly off, but someone mentioned Obama wanting to reduce abortions.

Bob Dunning on Sirius XM’s The Catholic Channel made a good point that doesn’t get asked enough: Why does Obama want to reduce the number of abortions? If there’s nothing wrong with abortion, if it’s a mother’s choice first and foremost to abort the child, why do we need to reduce abortions? If there’s nothing wrong with them, why worry about reduction?

But wanting to reduce the number of abortions clearly means that there is something wrong with it. And if abortion is something so bad that needs to be reduced, why do people want to keep it legal?

Makes no sense.