Can someone please Enlighten me?

[familyof4]

I’m not really sure if kids are worse today than they were a generation ago. I think that when we are confronted with especially obnoxious behavior, that’s what we remember, not the 100 other children who managed to make it through mass, or had parents that took them out to the Narthex or outside to get their behavior under control.

For the record, I have a 10 year old, and a 14 year old. Both of them behave (and usher quite often). More kids behave than not at our parish. The worst behavior I have seen was a group of teens who came in together before youth group, and were snickering and texting for the entire mass. Not sure why they bothered.

 

[Zosimus41]

I could be exaggerating but I think the majority of the congregation (at least where I’m from) don’t know what’s taking place on the altar. Lack of catechesis is usually the problem.

Your not exaggerating at all in my opinion.When they took out the high alter and alter rails
it left no distinction between the nave and the sanctuary. A step or stairs is all that left.

It takes away the beuatify of a visual heaven and earth.Its a free for all but still a valid mass as long as the priest has a consecration of the Eucharist liturgical abuses abound people even fight for it.

Many people having no idea the rubrics of the mass tend to mimic the preist The oran posture for example people use it at And also with your spirit. When the preist does it its done as a singular gesture to address a plural congregation its rather silly when the congregation does it back to him. Or when people not intending to taking communion cross their arms and go to the Eucharistic Minister instead of preist or deacon.Or the EM blesses the children. Its ignorance.

 

[Zosimus41]

I’m not really sure if kids are worse today than they were a generation ago. I think that when we are confronted with especially obnoxious behavior, that’s what we remember, not the 100 other children who managed to make it through mass, or had parents that took them out to the Narthex or outside to get their behavior under control.

For the record, I have a 10 year old, and a 14 year old. Both of them behave (and usher quite often). More kids behave than not at our parish. The worst behavior I have seen was a group of teens who came in together before youth group, and were snickering and texting for the entire mass. Not sure why they bothered.

Sometimes its not just the kids.Two Sundays ago 5 minutes before mass this couple stood there holding the door open having a loud conversation that echoed through the nave. I couldnt believe the lack of respect they had as adults.

 

[lerapt78]

Ahhhhh yes… daddy getting his belt out and going to town on the kiddos… these were the good ol’ days of “family values”

I’m guessing Marie was referring to parents who sternly disciplined their children, which does not = abuse.

when i was young :yawn:

Why would that bore you? Do you think there’s no wisdom to be gained from our elders?

One thing I’ve dealt with a bit is people who see how I have my kids behave then tell me it’s hypocritical of me to not let them act up, eat candy all throughout Mass, take naps in the pews, etc. because of how I behaved when I was younger. There’s plenty I did when I was younger that wasn’t right, and I see no problem expecting better behavior from my kids. Oddly enough, candy, toys, napping, etc. are never a problem when it’s just me or my wife & I with the kids at Mass. They know how I expect them to behave and they act appropriately. It doesn’t cause them harm, grief, anguish or any other problems. It’s only when we have people with us who expect them to misbehave that we have serious issues.

Very well said, and this demonstrates that you have the ability to recognize when behavior is wrong, and correct it . This is responsible parenting, IMO, and I wish more parents were like you. If those people actually used the word “hypocritical” in this case, it would be a misuse of the word, as hypocrisy refers to *current *beliefs or proclamations of virtue that are in opposition to personal actions. Since you are not saying that it’s acceptable for other parents to let their children eat candy and take naps, while *yours *are restricted to proper manners, there is no hypocrisy. (And I’ll wager that back when you were a young kid, *you *weren’t looking around the church, munching on M&Ms, and shaking your head at the poor behavior of others.)

Perhaps the people who criticize you simply believe that mistakes should be repeated…for the mere sake of consistency, of course.

 

[Nec5]

Spare the rod, spoil the…

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If there is one thing I have learnt a long time ago, if EVER I suggest parents be responsible for their children, I will be kicked out of society.

We live in a society that preaches ‘Freedom’ to the point a lot of people don’t take their responsibiliites. And I think that makes it really hard on the parents who do want to teach their kids properly. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of parents let their kids act up out of fear that if they discipline their kids, society will take away custody. After all, if other women are telling mom ‘he’s only a kid, let him colour in mass’, mom has no support.

There is a lot of focus on ‘kids are normal for acting up’, but the second half ‘yes, that is why adults need to teach’ has gone to the way side.

A friend of mine told me that she and her husband almost never go to Mass anymore because their son just won’t behave. They didn’t go much more often than Easter & Christmas before anyway, so I’m not sure how little they actually go now. Their son’s going to 11 in a few months and, according to her, is completely unable to sit through Mass if they don’t bring in food & candy, drinks, toys, books and his iPhone. They have a “church bag” they haul in with them, and when he grows tired of playing they let him nap. She’s told me about this numerous times and always ends her litany of struggles with, “and we just don’t know what to do.” How about leaving the bag at home and treating him like he’s almost 11 and not 2? She’s asked me before what we bring in our older girls’ church bags and then can’t wrap her head around the concept that we don’t bring anything to keep them distracted. We do bring a bottle, the occasional book and sometimes a small snack for our not quite two-year-old, but she’s approaching two, not eleven. With our friend, I’ve found that if I tell her what she ought to do, she gets angry and indignant at me being impossible and rude (you know, because telling her that leaving the bag at home and expecting her son to behave just as well in Mass as they expect him to behave in a movie is a rude and impossible expectation). Instead, when these conversations come up, I simply point out what we do and that we never have the same problems she does. I honestly don’t think she believes me, but at least it doesn’t spark an argument or hurt feelings.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Perhaps the people who criticize you simply believe that mistakes should be repeated…for the mere sake of consistency, of course.

I think the criticism comes from that fact that, regardless of what they say, at some level they recognize the failings in their own behavior and they’d rather tear us down or try to bring us to the same level rather than address their own problems. Our friend who has the “impossible” problems with her son has pointed to times I’ve told her that our babies have acted up to justify their behaviors to us, and to encourage us to handle things the same way (not go to Mass, haul in a wagon full of props to keep them happy, etc.). The times we’ve been at Mass with them and I’ve either told them not to give my older girls (or worse yet, my 21-year-old son) candy, cookies, drinks, etc., or have corrected my kids and told them to not joke around, play or eat, or to follow along with the Mass and behave properly–those are some of the times I get the accusations of being a hypocrite. I think it’s not so much that it’s a departure from how I was as a kid, but because it puts their behavior in a bad light (and, for the record, I’m not criticizing them or saying anything to them or their kid when this happens; I’m simply addressing my children’s behavior). The biggest frustration with all of this is that so many people take their side in the issue.

 

[Robertanthony]

A friend of mine told me that she and her husband almost never go to Mass anymore because their son just won’t behave. They didn’t go much more often than Easter & Christmas before anyway, so I’m not sure how little they actually go now. Their son’s going to 11 in a few months and, according to her, is completely unable to sit through Mass if they don’t bring in food & candy, drinks, toys, books and his iPhone. They have a “church bag” they haul in with them, and when he grows tired of playing they let him nap. She’s told me about this numerous times and always ends her litany of struggles with, “and we just don’t know what to do.” How about leaving the bag at home and treating him like he’s almost 11 and not 2? She’s asked me before what we bring in our older girls’ church bags and then can’t wrap her head around the concept that we don’t bring anything to keep them distracted. We do bring a bottle, the occasional book and sometimes a small snack for our not quite two-year-old, but she’s approaching two, not eleven. With our friend, I’ve found that if I tell her what she ought to do, she gets angry and indignant at me being impossible and rude (you know, because telling her that leaving the bag at home and expecting her son to behave just as well in Mass as they expect him to behave in a movie is a rude and impossible expectation). Instead, when these conversations come up, I simply point out what we do and that we never have the same problems she does. I honestly don’t think she believes me, but at least it doesn’t spark an argument or hurt feelings.

Mass doesn’t go well with an instant gratification mentality. Kids are used to being entertained all the time.The Mass is more about interiority, peace, calm, reverence, meditation. Sitting still through a movie is easier because you get into the action and don’t have to fight impulses, boredom, wandering thoughts as much. There is also the possiblity that the kid has ADHD or that his parents are so inept at their job (parenting) that so little is expected of their little brat that he expects to be given a “pacifier” each time he’s not perfectly happy and content. I mean that’s a heavy price to pay to keep an 11 year old happy and still. Perhaps you could suggest she bring his blanky.(actually, don’t)

 

[Wackotrad]

Sometimes its not just the kids.Two Sundays ago 5 minutes before mass this couple stood there holding the door open having a loud conversation that echoed through the nave. I couldnt believe the lack of respect they had as adults.

I second this. At my parish, it’s the older folks who don’t seem to know how to behave. They chat loudly before, after and sometimes during Mass. We have a rather conservative parish, so it’s rare to see kids (except for very young ones) misbehaving.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Mass doesn’t go well with an instant gratification mentality. Kids are used to being entertained all the time.The Mass is more about interiority, peace, calm, reverence, meditation. Sitting still through a movie is easier because you get into the action and don’t have to fight impulses, boredom, wandering thoughts as much. There is also the possiblity that the kid has ADHD or that his parents are so inept at their job (parenting) that so little is expected of their little brat that he expects to be given a “pacifier” each time he’s not perfectly happy and content. I mean that’s a heavy price to pay to keep an 11 year old happy and still. Perhaps you could suggest she bring his blanky.(actually, don’t)

I think that’s essentially what they’re doing with his bag of goodies. They’ve actually had him tested for ADHD in the past (a school requirement, not based on his behavior), so that’s not the issue. My take is that they don’t view their faith as a priority so they’ve never seen a reason to teach him how to behave properly. Granted, his behavior is inexcusable, but if he’s always been shown that that’s how he’s expected to behave at Mass then it’s not terribly surprising that he still acts this way. He’s generally much better behaved in other environments, so they clearly understand that there are basic expectations for how a kid acts in public; they just don’t feel Mass merits the same respect as a movie theater or sports bar.

 

[gh4]

I belong to a VERY VERY small parish. When a child is loud and moves around and plays, it can really ruin mass for most of the people there. I just make sure that I sit with them behind me now, hopefully it will get better. We’ve had others and eventually they have outgrown it.

I think with the old folks, it’s not that they are being rude, but they can’t hear well and they have no idea how loud they are talking.
We have one little couple, they are very nice people, and they think they are whispering, but the entire church can hear them when they ‘whisper.’ I just grin and bear it, what else can you do? I notice the priest kind of hides a grin every once and a while when they are ‘whispering.’