Can someone please explain to me why God gave us free will?

[nocoastlayman]

I’m a very devout Catholic and love God with my heart but for some reason I always wonder why God allowed us to have free will. To me free will is a curse. If you love someone, why would you allow them to choose wrong?

Now I know the argument I will probably hear is that if someone is a parent, then they will have to accept that their kids will make mistakes sometimes. This might be true of a child who is a teenager or even someone over the age of about 7 or so, maybe even younger, but would you allow an infant or a toddler to simply make mistakes and do whatever they wanted? I don’t think so.

To me, God is letting us make our own choices, but compared to God we are but infants who don’t know anything. He’s basically letting us play in a crib dangling at the edge of a cliff with walls we can easily climb. Sure some of us will chose to stay on the cliff, but some will fall to the abyss because they don’t know any better, or they think that they will be safe and either God will protect them, or that God isn’t watching or worse doesn’t exist.

 

[pianistclare]

OK, let me give you this example:

Would you rather marry in a shot-gun wedding, or would you rather marry someone who made a conscious decision to spend their life with you?

God has feelings you know. He’s not an angry ruler watching us spin about.
He desires our love. Freely given. Just as He offers to us.
Peace.

welcome to the forums!

 

[Della]

God created us, like the angels, as sentient beings. This means that we have the ability to consciously and willing love God. Would you have God take that away from us?

When God created Adam and Eve there was no sin in the world. They were innocent of wrongdoing but free to choose to love God and obey him or not. Love is not love if it is not freely given. A slave or a puppet do not love for love’s sake. The slave has no choice but to serve and pretend at worst that he loves his master–this is the driving concept of Islam–that we are God’s slaves not his children. And a puppet has no say at all–the maker of a puppet can pretend his creation loves him, but a puppet is incapable of it.

God gave Adam and Eve only one command–one choice only. Eve listened to the serpent and fell into sin. Adam, instead of offering his life for Eve, as was his duty in love as her husband, listened to her temptation and fell as well. This is the sad history we are all paying the price for.

As to people falling innocently into sin–no one who commits mortal sin without knowing it is mortal, not willingly, and not of his own free will is guilty of it. So people cannot fall into hell by accident/through lack of knowledge. So, don’t believe that they can and don’t fear what isn’t true. You should read the Catechism about all this instead of merely speculating on your own.

 

[christofirst]

From the Catechism:

“God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel, so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

So it sounds like God gave us free will because He wanted to give us free will, and God is the Creator, not us. Free will is a problem for me as well, because it seems to me that too much is at stake! We are told that our eternal salvation can be lost over a bad choice in this life. I have read that free will is a great gift of love, but if the wrong use of that gift can land me in hell, it does not seem like such a great gift. Maybe if God had made us all like robots, we would all yearn for free will, but I’m not so sure. Most of us just want to be happy, not pass a test, but a test is what we have. All I can say is, I didn’t make the rules, but I have to live with them.

Sorry if my answer does not help, but at least you know you’re not alone. Hopefully someone else here will have a more illuminating and satisfactory answer.

 

[wmw]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

IN BRIEF

1743 “God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him” (GS 17 § 1).

In seeking and cleaving to Him we grow in love. Without freedom there is no choice, no love, no spiritual growth and perfection. God freely chose to make us more than pets. Animals fulfill that role perfectly.

Also understand that the Original Sin is the human demand that we are “left in the hand of [our] own counsel”. So, God willed it though it was against our own good at least temporarily because of our choice to be apart from His counsel.

398 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. He chose himself over and against God, against the requirements of his creaturely status and therefore against his own good. Constituted in a state of holiness, man was destined to be fully “divinized” by God in glory. Seduced by the devil, he wanted to “be like God,” but “without God, before God, and not in accordance with God.”279 (2084, 2113)

God eventually works out an even greater good through Jesus Christ; Therefore, He does not ever abandon us to our poor choices nor Adam’s.

 

[Elizium23]

God’s choice was an act of love and wisdom. “If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it was, and always will be yours. If it never returns, it was never yours to begin with.” By giving us the chance to choose to love Him, to choose to follow His commands, He gave us a chance to prove that our love is for real.

You can be a soldier in the armed forces, perhaps you were drafted or perhaps you volunteered. You can choose to go along and follow orders, never stick your head out, and receive an honorable discharge. Or you can choose to commit acts of heroism and virtue, and earn medals, and receive accolades and the respect of your fellow soldiers. Who has done a greater service to his country?

God Himself has free will, that much is evident. When He chose to create us in His own image, He naturally did not leave that out. How could He resist?

 

[clem456]

As others have said, love requires freedom.

God loves, so he creates us. Because he loves us, he desires us to return that love, because to have loving communion with God is the highest good and he wants the best for us. We live in relationship with him. Relationships involve risk of rejection, even for God (see the Cross)

Love without free will is akin to rape. God cannot force himself on anyone. We have the freedom to choose him, or to reject him. We can think of hell as a punishment inflicted by God, and we can also think of it as a self-chosen absence of God.

Marriage is the best analogy (not by any accident either ) Instead of a marriage, would I like a robot person who gives me all the external observances of love, at my command? That would be fun for about 2 weeks, but it is not a loving relationship. In the end, we want to be freely chosen by someone else.
“I am free to choose to be anywhere, but I choose to be here with you”.

Love can’t be just an obligation. On my anniversary, if I ask myself, "what must I do to love my wife, I am in trouble. That is not love, it is observance of an obligation, which is only minimalist love and reduces the covenant relationship to a mere contract.

Hopefully our free will leads us to choose a full love for God.

 

[Della]

From the Catechism:

“God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel, so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

So it sounds like God gave us free will because He wanted to give us free will, and God is the Creator, not us. Free will is a problem for me as well, because it seems to me that too much is at stake! We are told that our eternal salvation can be lost over a bad choice in this life. I have read that free will is a great gift of love, but if the wrong use of that gift can land me in hell, it does not seem like such a great gift. Maybe if God had made us all like robots, we would all yearn for free will, but I’m not so sure. Most of us just want to be happy, not pass a test, but a test is what we have. All I can say is, I didn’t make the rules, but I have to live with them.

Sorry if my answer does not help, but at least you know you’re not alone. Hopefully someone else here will have a more illuminating and satisfactory answer.

It’s not about passing any test. It’s about love. Do you have to pass a test to love your parents, your wife, your children, your friends? However, if you turn your back on them do they not have the right to let you go if you want to? Would keeping you a prisoner in your own home solve anything if you no longer loved your family?

Yes, the cost is high for violating God’s love. But if we do that deliberately should God be blamed for giving us the gift of being able to freely love because we might reject it?

Be thankful you have the ability to love freely and consciously instead of thinking of God as less than kind for creating us with that ability. God is NOT waiting for us to mess up so he can pounce on us and say “Gotcha!” Rather, he longs for us to love him for his own sake–just as we should love our family for their own sake and not just what we can get from them.

It can be hard for us to grasp these things because when Adam and Eve fell they, and we, were wounded in three ways: our nature was corrupted so we tend to sin, our intellect was darkened so we have a hard time understanding God and his will, and our will was weakened so that we don’t always do what we know we should do. These deficiencies are overcome by God’s grace, which is why we are baptized, go to confession, receive the Eucharist, etc.–so that by God’s power we can overcome sin and our fallen natures.

Don’t despair. That’s just what the devil wants you to do–to give up, so you’ll commit the sin of pride by believing that even God can’t forgive you or that you can never overcome the persistent sins in your life. It may seem like an impossible task, but with God all things are possible, as our blessed Savior told us. In Christ we are more than conquerors of sin, we can be saints. Others have become saints who had been very great sinners. God wants us to come to him for help, not so he can judge us. So, go to God in humility, admit you are weak, tell him you wish to be strong in his Spirit and he will guide you and strengthen you as you take up your daily cross and follow Christ.

 

[Neofight]

Perhaps so we WOULD sin…

Talk amongst yourselves.

Peace and all good!

 

[Della]

Perhaps so we WOULD sin…

Talk amongst yourselves.

While you sit back and don’t contribute? Ah…no.

Peace and all good!

If we believed in the god you propose we could have neither. :coffeeread:

 

[Neofight]

While you sit back and don’t contribute? Ah…no.

If we believed in the god you propose we could have neither. :coffeeread:

It’s not that I won’t contribute, I was merely asking for thoughts to consider and respond to…and your closing claim might be a bit presumptive…

Let’s let a couple more people weigh in.

Peace and all good!

 

[Della]

It’s not that I won’t contribute, I was merely asking for thought sto consider and respond to…and your closing claim might be a bit presumptive…

Let’s let a couple more people weigh in.

Peace and all good!

The idea that God would want us to sin is blasphemous. The saints have called the fall of man a “happy fault” because it gave us the wondrous sacrifice of Christ, but God certainly didn’t/doesn’t want anyone to sin. Such an accusation against God comes from the devil whom Jesus called a liar and deceiver.

 

[christofirst]

It’s not about passing any test. It’s about love. Do you have to pass a test to love your parents, your wife, your children, your friends? However, if you turn your back on them do they not have the right to let you go if you want to? Would keeping you a prisoner in your own home solve anything if you no longer loved your family?

Yes, the cost is high for violating God’s love. But if we do that deliberately should God be blamed for giving us the gift of being able to freely love because we might reject it?

Be thankful you have the ability to love freely and consciously instead of thinking of God as less than kind for creating us with that ability. God is NOT waiting for us to mess up so he can pounce on us and say “Gotcha!” Rather, he longs for us to love him for his own sake–just as we should love our family for their own sake and not just what we can get from them.

It can be hard for us to grasp these things because when Adam and Eve fell they, and we, were wounded in three ways: our nature was corrupted so we tend to sin, our intellect was darkened so we have a hard time understanding God and his will, and our will was weakened so that we don’t always do what we know we should do. These deficiencies are overcome by God’s grace, which is why we are baptized, go to confession, receive the Eucharist, etc.–so that by God’s power we can overcome sin and our fallen natures.

Don’t despair. That’s just what the devil wants you to do–to give up, so you’ll commit the sin of pride by believing that even God can’t forgive you or that you can never overcome the persistent sins in your life. It may seem like an impossible task, but with God all things are possible, as our blessed Savior told us. In Christ we are more than conquerors of sin, we can be saints. Others have become saints who had been very great sinners. God wants us to come to him for help, not so he can judge us. So, go to God in humility, admit you are weak, tell him you wish to be strong in his Spirit and he will guide you and strengthen you as you take up your daily cross and follow Christ.

Thank you for trying , but it still seems to me that all of these wonderful examples (marriage, the military, a parental relationship) are all just attempting to make sense of our situation as it currently exists. The question still remains, could it be different? Who says love requires free will? We only say that because we had no choice in the matter. Why couldn’t God have made Himself completely irresistible to us, His creatures. If you love someone, let them go. … To Hell?? I’m sorry, that does not sound like love to me. If a lover desires the happiness of the beloved, shouldn’t that lover, especially an all-powerful, all-knowing lover, ensure that the beloved would not and could not make the choice that would lead to eternal misery? Read the Gospel passage about the goats and the sheep and tell me life is not a test again.

Look, I understand that life is a gift, and believe me, I’m grateful. God has just arranged some things in a way I find somewhat baffling. I’m not even complaining so much on my own behalf, but I have people whom I love all around me who apparently reject God or some aspect of God’s many loving laws, and it pains me to see this, based on the potential consequences. I trust in God’s love and mercy, and I fully acknowledge one alternative: God could have chosen not make us at all, so I’m not complaining. But free will, I still have issues with that.

 

[Neofight]

The idea that God would want us to sin is blasphemous. The saints have called the fall of man a “happy fault” because it gave us the wondrous sacrifice of Christ, but God certainly didn’t/doesn’t want anyone to sin. Such an accusation against God comes from the devil whom Jesus called a liar and deceiver.

Really?

Can you see no way that it may have been loving (which would hardly make it blasphemous)?

Can you recall no writing of one apostle, or another highly venerated saint that might (admittedly subjective) support such a possibility?

 

[clem456]

Thank you for trying , but it still seems to me that all of these wonderful examples (marriage, the military, a parental relationship) are all just attempting to make sense of our situation as it currently exists. The question still remains, could it be different? Who says love requires free will? We only say that because we had no choice in the matter. Why couldn’t God have made Himself completely irresistible to us, His creatures. If you love someone, let them go. … To Hell?? I’m sorry, that does not sound like love to me. If a lover desires the happiness of the beloved, shouldn’t that lover, especially an all-powerful, all-knowing lover, ensure that the beloved would not and could not make the choice that would lead to eternal misery? Read the Gospel passage about the goats and the sheep and tell me life is not a test again.

If you think about the God-man relationship as a contract, yes, it is a test. One can fail the test. The truth is, we do fail the test. The question is, are we willing to move beyond contractual self-dependence to trust, faith, hope, love, all those things that God offers to us. I call them “things” but it is in reality an offer of himself. It is an invitation to a faithful relationship, not a test. Can we, despite constantly failing the test, still trust in God? Can I unite my will to his, even while knowing I am a sinner? He reaches a hand to us, we reach a hand back.

Look, I understand that life is a gift, and believe me, I’m grateful. God has just arranged some things in a way I find somewhat baffling. I’m not even complaining so much on my own behalf, but I have people whom I love all around me who apparently reject God or some aspect of God’s many loving laws, and it pains me to see this, based on the potential consequences. I trust in God’s love and mercy, and I fully acknowledge one alternative: God could have chosen not make us at all, so I’m not complaining. But free will, I still have issues with that.

 

[Della]

Really?

Can you see no way that it may have been loving (which would hardly make it blasphemous)?

Can you recall no writing of one apostle, or another highly venerated saint that might (admittedly subjective) support such a possibility?

No, and no.

 

[Della]

Thank you for trying , but it still seems to me that all of these wonderful examples (marriage, the military, a parental relationship) are all just attempting to make sense of our situation as it currently exists. The question still remains, could it be different? Who says love requires free will? We only say that because we had no choice in the matter. Why couldn’t God have made Himself completely irresistible to us, His creatures. If you love someone, let them go. … To Hell?? I’m sorry, that does not sound like love to me. If a lover desires the happiness of the beloved, shouldn’t that lover, especially an all-powerful, all-knowing lover, ensure that the beloved would not and could not make the choice that would lead to eternal misery? Read the Gospel passage about the goats and the sheep and tell me life is not a test again.

And what is hell? It’s separation from God. And who goes to hell? Those who willingly, knowingly and of their own free will choose to reject God. All three criteria must be met and those who choose must know and accept the consequences. When we die we will know how much we loved God (or not) when we see him face to face. Those who hated him in life will hate him in death and not want to be with him but will choose hell instead. God doesn’t want hell, but without him existence is hell–a hell of our own making. A very good book that addresses these issues is C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce.” It’s a novel in which he uses expressions common to Englishmen of his day, but it’s truly a great treatise on why some people choose hell over eternal joy.

Look, I understand that life is a gift, and believe me, I’m grateful. God has just arranged some things in a way I find somewhat baffling. I’m not even complaining so much on my own behalf, but I have people whom I love all around me who apparently reject God or some aspect of God’s many loving laws, and it pains me to see this, based on the potential consequences. I trust in God’s love and mercy, and I fully acknowledge one alternative: God could have chosen not make us at all, so I’m not complaining. But free will, I still have issues with that.

My friend you are taking on yourself the sorrow that Christ alone could bear, which sent him in love to the Cross. Do not look at others’ behavior/words, and pass sentence on their eternal destiny. You and I cannot possibly know that. Instead, be a good witness to them in love, pray for them, and be at peace. Their judgment is up to God, not you or I, thanks be. Let your concern drive you to your knees not to questioning the motives of our all loving God.

 

[Neofight]

No, and no.

Fair enough…maybe someone else will weigh in.

Peace and all good!

 

[Peter_Plato]

I’m a very devout Catholic and love God with my heart but for some reason I always wonder why God allowed us to have free will.

Personally, I suspect the reason is very simple and basic. Free will is the ground for personal identity. We have “personhood” because we have the capacity to intend and to choose freely. Our autonomy is the basis for our identity – for who we are as individual human persons.

In order to have an identity it is necessary to have a uniqueness that is separate from the causal order around us. If we were merely an aspect of the causal order there would be nothing that would make us distinct from it – that would identify us to ourselves as distinct existents.

The capacity to originate novel causal sequences in reality makes us unique, distinct and “who” we are.

 

[nocoastlayman]

From the Catechism:

“God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel, so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

So it sounds like God gave us free will because He wanted to give us free will, and God is the Creator, not us. Free will is a problem for me as well, because it seems to me that too much is at stake! We are told that our eternal salvation can be lost over a bad choice in this life. I have read that free will is a great gift of love, but if the wrong use of that gift can land me in hell, it does not seem like such a great gift. Maybe if God had made us all like robots, we would all yearn for free will, but I’m not so sure. Most of us just want to be happy, not pass a test, but a test is what we have. All I can say is, I didn’t make the rules, but I have to live with them.

Sorry if my answer does not help, but at least you know you’re not alone. Hopefully someone else here will have a more illuminating and satisfactory answer.

I kind of agree that maybe if we didn’t have free will, we’d want it, but couldn’t God just make us not want it. I mean he’s God and he can do whatever he wants. I honestly don’t understand how to love someone means you let them do whatever they want. I guess it doesn’t help that I’m young and have never had a relationship, but still I find myself wanting to be God’s slave or God’s robot rather than someone who has to make a choice to follow him. What worries me is that so many people reject him and some people don’t know it. I’m sure that souls are falling into hell like snowflakes on the ground during a snowstorm.

Honestly if God wants us to be with him then he should have just made us be with him.I guess I shouldn’t worry though since i’ve made the choice to want to be with him:shrug: