Can someone please explain...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Karin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Karin

Guest
In trying to understand or learn more about the Orthodox Jewish view points on the Catholic faith I came across the following website…noahide.com/index.htm.
They have an article posted Who Was Jesus?noahide.com/yeshu.htm and they had a veiw point that Jesus was a false prophet…saying that I wonder how this effects the relations of Christians and Jews? Or is this only one Jewish sects view on Jesus and it does not speak for the majority of Jews?
Exceprt from the webpage: noahide.com/yeshu.htm
In the book of the prophet Daniel, this false prophet is described as a king (the eleventh horn on a terrible beast) who would wage war against the Jews (the “holy ones”; see Deut. 14:2 on this term) and would change the Law including the calendar and the holidays (Daniel 7:8, 20-25). Elsewhere, this false prophet is described as a king who would disregard the G-d of his fathers, exalting himself as a god and giving honor to this new god-head (Daniel 11:36-39).The man known today as “Jesus” fulfilled all these prophecies. He became a “king” (over the Christian church) who changed the original Law, doing away with the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos the Festival of Tabernacles, Passover, etc.). He disregarded the one, infinite G-d of the Hebrew Bible in favor of a new “trinity” that included himself. And he repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d-given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin.
 
Hi Karin!

I can’t & won’t speak for the site you cited but I’ll tell you what one particular orthodox Jew, i.e. me, thinks of the Roman Catholic faith.

Roman Catholicism & orthodox Judaism (despite our rather obvious differences) have much in common. Our views on many ethical & moral issues are similar. But beyond that, ours are faiths with rules, with authority & structure & with discipline. Ours are not make-it-up-as-you-go-along faiths & never have been (I suppose Protestantism & Reform Judaism are like that). Rather than mold the faith to fit the individual, I think that we believe that it is the individual who must mold him/herself to fit the faith. The late former Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth, Lord Immanuel Jakobovitz (of blessed memory) once said that a faith which demands nothing is worth nothing. To be an orthodox Jew demands a great deal & I have learned to be a Roman Catholic is similarly very demanding.

Back in March 2000, I was fortunate enough to work on the late Pope John Paul II’s historic visit here to Israel (see tinyurl.com/4co5r). I have very great admiration for the current Pope’s work in furthering dialogue & conciliation between our respective faiths. If Benedict XVI continues in the footsteps of his saintly predecessors, John Paul II & John XXIII (and there is every indication that he is; see forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=719971&highlight=Benedict#post719971), I have no doubt that Jewish-Catholic dialogue will continue to make considerable progress (see also tinyurl.com/6vwqj).

As far as our/my views on Jesus, see forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=233191#post233191.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
What you read is Not the opinion of most Jews! They may not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, but they recognize him as a holy man and prophet.

Remember, Jesus was first and formost a Jew. He was born. and lived and died as a devout Jew. Like pharisees of the time, Jesus used the midrash and interpreted Scripture. He ran afoul of a few, because he jolted their standards. But, that does not make him less a Jew. Therefore, the Jewish Faith is the very foundation for our Faith. Awhile back I had the privilede of attending a synagog service and was surprized to see how similar our liturgies were.

The Jews are in a real sense our brothers and sisters. To deny them is to deny Christ.

Love & peace in Christ,
Bob
 
trailblazer: that is what i was taught that Jesus was a Jew; Jesus viewed as a prophet by Jews; Jewish faith the foundation of Catholic faith. But then in looking to learn more about the Jewish Faith do I run into the views that are similare to the ones postedon that site? I also find a very large amount of Anti-Catholic, anti-American views on these site also…not just from the people writing the articles but from the everyday person that comment on them.

SSV: thank you once again…your posts are most helpful! Perhaps a bit to helpful as they make me have more questions 😃 . Could you perhaps tell me the major sects in Orthodox Judiasm are & Which one is the largest.
 
40.png
stillsmallvoice:
See jewfaq.org/movement.htm#US.
Click to expand...
Hi SSV:

Great site! Very informative and in laymans terms makes things easier to understand!
But once again…questions…like I stated the website you mentioned above was great…but…I am confused on some things that were stated…please help if you can…
AbortionJewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother’s life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory. An unborn child has the status of “potential human life” until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother’s, because you cannot choose between one human life and another.( jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Abortion)**

So the question is if *Judaism, life is valued above almost all else. (jewfaq.org/death.htm) how can they say that abortion is ok at any point and time? *
Next question: Homosexuality*** Sexual relations between men are clearly forbidden by the Torah. (Lev. 18:22). Such acts are condemned in the strongest possible terms, as abhorrent. The only other sexual sin that is described in such strong terms is the sin of remarrying a woman you had divorced after she had been married to another man. (See Deut. 24:4). The sin of sexual relations between men is punishable by death (Lev. 20:13), as are the sins of adultery and incest.*** ( http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm#Abortion)

I have more questions so many more…but I’ll wait to ask them.

How can homosexuals be allowed to live and exist in Israel if the above statement is true should they not be all put to death??
 
Hi Karin!

About abortion.

I quote from a book I have on the (orthodox!) Jewish approach to various medical issues by Rabbi Dr. J. David Bleich (a senior rabbi/doctor at Yeshiva University in New York):
“Judaism regards the killing of an unborn child to be a serious moral offense. An abortion may be performed only for the gravest of reasons, and even then, only subsequent to consultation with a competent [orthodox] rabbinic authority…The life of the mother takes precedence over that of the unborn child. Thus, when ‘hard travail’ of labor endangers the life of the mother, an embryotomy may be performed in order to save her…The fetus’ right to life is subordinate to that of the mother, and hence the life of the unborn fetus may be sacrificed in order to save her…The performance of an abortion may be warranted for purposes of preserving maternal health as well as maternal life. No [orthodox rabbinic] authority permits an abortion which is non-therapeutic in nature. There are early rabbinic authorities who expressly declare that ritual laws such as Sabbath observance and fasting on Yom Kippur are suspended in order to preserve the life of the fetus. Suspension of such significant religious observances is clearly incompatible with indiscriminate license to destroy fetal life. Both the argument that a prospective mother may seek an abortion for any reason because denial of this right would interfere with her ‘right to privacy’ as well as the argument that the decision to abort is entirely a matter between a woman and her physician must be rejected as incompatible with Jewish teaching…Judaism teaches that man does not enjoy unrestricted proprietary rights with regard to his own body, much less so with regard to the body of an unborn child…The Talmud teaches that embryo is endowed with a soul at conception. Moreover, the Sages taught: ‘There are 3 partners in the generation of man - the father, the mother and God.’ Accordingly, a decision to terminate pregnancy is not one which is within the exclusive domain of the mother…It is well established that the quality of life to be anticipated if the fetus is carried to term is not, in itself, a sufficient reason for the performance of an abortion…Physical or mental abnormalities do not affect the human status of the individual or his right to life…Most authorities rule that termination of pregnancy resulting from rape is not permissible. However, the immediate post-coital contraceptive measures undertaken prior to fertilization of the ovum present a different but complex Jewish-law question. Immediate removal of the semen by means of a suction device…would be warranted.”
Click to expand...
Thus, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism absolutely rejects abortion as a means of birth control. I certainly object to government funding for abortions that are non-therapeutic in nature.

Jewish law says that once the mother has begun to give birth, her life no longer takes precedence over the fetus & thus killing the fetus, even if ostensibly to save the mother, would, at this stage, be cold-blooded murder & thus absolutely forbidden. I can’t imagine that any orthodox rabbi would ever sanction an abortion if the mother has begun to give birth or if the doctors said that the fetus is viable, regardless of the mother’s wishes.

We completely reject vigilante violence against doctors, nurses, etc. who are involved in abortions (as well as inciting to violence against them) & to bombing clinics. Opposition to non-therapeutic abortions must be carried out within the bounds of the law.

This aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abortion_in_Jewish_Law.asp is a pretty good article which summarizes the orthodox Jewish view.

(cont.)
 
(cont.)

You asked about homosexuality & the State of Israel. First, (orthodox) Jewish rabbinic law is not the law of the land in the modern State of Israel (see tinyurl.com/blwok). Second, under Jewish law (which, as I said, is not the same thing as Israeli civil law; although we do have the death penalty on the books here, the only person Israel has ever executed was the infamous Nazi Adolf Eichman), a duly constituted & recognized rabbinical court could only apply the death penalty if all of the following conditions were met: a) The offending party was mentally competent, b) The offending party had been warned by qualified authorities, prior to the commission of said act, about the specific law & the penalties for violating it, c) There were 2 eyewitnesses to the offending act, d) The offending party was of legal age & did not act under conpulsion or durress. Moreover, under Jewish law, hearsay, circumstantial evidence & confessions (in capital cases) are absolutely inadmissible. See tinyurl.com/4qdkz (the Jewish Encyclopedia entry on “Capital Punishment”).

No rabbinical court has had the civil authority to apply the death penalty according to Jewish law for a very long time. No such court has sat in the Holy Land since the 4th-5th century CE (what we say instead of “AD”). There were Jewish courts in parts of medieval Europe & in various Islamic countries that, having been given communal autonomy by the civil authorities, did so. It is a principle of normative, traditional (i.e. orthodox) Judaism that certain Torah laws have been temporarily suspended since the destruction of the Temple :crying:; but, it is also a principle of normative, traditional (i.e. orthodox) Judaism that all of these Torah laws will be reinstated in full when the Messiah comes.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
40.png
stillsmallvoice:
Hi Karin!

About abortion.

I quote from a book I have on the (orthodox!) Jewish approach to various medical issues by Rabbi Dr. J. David Bleich (a senior rabbi/doctor at Yeshiva University in New York):

Thus, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism absolutely rejects abortion as a means of birth control. I certainly object to government funding for abortions that are non-therapeutic in nature.

Jewish law says that once the mother has begun to give birth, her life no longer takes precedence over the fetus & thus killing the fetus, even if ostensibly to save the mother, would, at this stage, be cold-blooded murder & thus absolutely forbidden. I can’t imagine that any orthodox rabbi would ever sanction an abortion if the mother has begun to give birth or if the doctors said that the fetus is viable, regardless of the mother’s wishes.

We completely reject vigilante violence against doctors, nurses, etc. who are involved in abortions (as well as inciting to violence against them) & to bombing clinics. Opposition to non-therapeutic abortions must be carried out within the bounds of the law.

This aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abortion_in_Jewish_Law.asp is a pretty good article which summarizes the orthodox Jewish view.

(cont.)
Click to expand...
SSV: Once again great article. So if I am understanding this correctly Jews believe that as long as a woman has not started to give birth (baby leaving the body) than she can have an abortion? They view a fetus as a human but as long as it is in the womb it is a pursuer if the mothers life is in danger. So the act of abortion is not allowed for the sake of birth control or to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy…am I correct in this accumption?
 
quote=stillsmallvoice

You asked about homosexuality & the State of Israel. First, (orthodox) Jewish rabbinic law is not the law of the land in the modern State of Israel (see tinyurl.com/blwok). Second, under Jewish law (which, as I said, is not the same thing as Israeli civil law; although we do have the death penalty on the books here, the only person Israel has ever executed was the infamous Nazi Adolf Eichman), a duly constituted & recognized rabbinical court could only apply the death penalty if all of the following conditions were met: a) The offending party was mentally competent, b) The offending party had been warned by qualified authorities, prior to the commission of said act, about the specific law & the penalties for violating it, c) There were 2 eyewitnesses to the offending act, d) The offending party was of legal age & did not act under conpulsion or durress. Moreover, under Jewish law, hearsay, circumstantial evidence & confessions (in capital cases) are absolutely inadmissible. See tinyurl.com/4qdkz (the Jewish Encyclopedia entry on “Capital Punishment”).

No rabbinical court has had the civil authority to apply the death penalty according to Jewish law for a very long time. No such court has sat in the Holy Land since the 4th-5th century CE (what we say instead of “AD”). There were Jewish courts in parts of medieval Europe & in various Islamic countries that, having been given communal autonomy by the civil authorities, did so. It is a principle of normative, traditional (i.e. orthodox) Judaism that certain Torah laws have been temporarily suspended since the destruction of the Temple :crying:; but, it is also a principle of normative, traditional (i.e. orthodox) Judaism that all of these Torah laws will be reinstated in full when the Messiah comes.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
[/quote]

SSV:
Ok outside of the legal mumbo jumbo…the principal fact is that homosexual activities are ok by Israeli law.THe same thing is true for Torah law as the certain laws are suspended.
 
Hi Karin!

You posted:
Ok outside of the legal mumbo jumbo…
Click to expand...
It’s not mumbo-jumbo! 🙂

We take rabbinic law as seriopusly as you take canon law.
the principal fact is that homosexual activities are ok by Israeli law.
Click to expand...
Yes.
THe same thing is true for Torah law as the certain laws are suspended.
Click to expand...
Not quite. Homosexual acts are very much not OK according to the Torah. However, there is no rabbinic court today that is competent/permitted to apply Torah law in this case.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
40.png
stillsmallvoice:
Hi Karin!

You posted:

It’s not mumbo-jumbo! 🙂

We take rabbinic law as seriopusly as you take canon law.

Yes.

Not quite. Homosexual acts are very much not OK according to the Torah. However, there is no rabbinic court today that is competent/permitted to apply Torah law in this case.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv 👋
Click to expand...
SSV: I seem to of offended you…not my intention at all!!! When I said mumbo-jumbo I was refering to the explaination of law in Israel that you gave. I was more interested in the religious aspect and perhaps I should of not lumped the question to apply to the state law and religious law. But I understand now…as usual thank you for the well written replies…I hope next time I can do a bit better with the questions…🙂
 
Hi Karin!

I’m not offended! We’re :cool: !
But I understand now…as usual thank you for the well written replies…
Click to expand...
You’re welcome!
I hope next time I can do a bit better with the questions…🙂
Click to expand...
Ask away!

Be well!

ssv 👋
 
SSV: I am glad…I will ask more questions dont worry will keep you supplied 😃
 
Karin and Stillsmallvoice…
Isn’t it apparent to you both that we are indeed brothers and sisters? There are some differences (some large and some small) in our moral beliefs, same with our spiritual beliefs, but all in all, we are united by our God to be brothers and sisters. God bless you both!
 
40.png
BlestOne:
Karin and Stillsmallvoice…
Isn’t it apparent to you both that we are indeed brothers and sisters? There are some differences (some large and some small) in our moral beliefs, same with our spiritual beliefs, but all in all, we are united by our God to be brothers and sisters. God bless you both!
Click to expand...
Blestone:
Oh yes I do understand that. I just wanted to understand the Jewish fatih better…or is that not allowed??
 
Karin,
Sure it is, even encouraged but you were starting to sound a little confrontational. I thought things were starting to heat up a bit unecessarily so I thought I would remind you that we were all created by the same loving God.
M.
 
40.png
BlestOne:
Karin,
Sure it is, even encouraged but you were starting to sound a little confrontational. I thought things were starting to heat up a bit unecessarily so I thought I would remind you that we were all created by the same loving God.
M.
Click to expand...
BlestOne-
Thank you …but SSV seems ok with things…but by all means I can tone it done if you would like.
 
Karin you are not here to please me, you are here to learn as we all are…you don’t have to do anything on my account!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top