Can someone read this, and help me understand?

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whatevergirl

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Below is today’s Gospel reading…I somewhat understand it, but the part that you see in bold…in other words, is Jesus saying that he doesn’t want everyone else besides the Apostles to not completely understand, so that there still remains a certain ‘mystery’ of faith? I mean, we can never fully fathom ‘the mind’ of God, so that is how I interpret it, but I could be way off! lol Your help is appreciated…thanks!🙂

Lk 8:4-15

When a large crowd gathered, with people from one town after another
journeying to Jesus, he spoke in a parable.
“A sower went out to sow his seed.
And as he sowed, some seed fell on the path and was trampled,
and the birds of the sky ate it up.
Some seed fell on rocky ground, and when it grew,
it withered for lack of moisture.
Some seed fell among thorns,
and the thorns grew with it and choked it.
And some seed fell on good soil, and when it grew,
it produced fruit a hundredfold.”
After saying this, he called out,
“Whoever has ears to hear ought to hear.”

Then his disciples asked him
what the meaning of this parable might be.
He answered,
“Knowledge of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God
has been granted to you;
but to the rest, they are made known through parables
so that they may look but not see, and hear but not understand.
 
Oh, as you can see, I didn’t copy and paste the entire reading…but just stopped at the part that I found a little confusing.
 
I suggest doing a comparative reading in such cases. Read and see what Jesus says in Matthew on the same issue:

13:10 Then the disciples came to him and said, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 13:11 He replied, “You have been given the opportunity to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but they have not. 13:12 For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13:13 For this reason I speak to them in parables: Although they see they do not see, and although they hear they do not hear nor do they understand. 13:14 And concerning them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: ‘You will listen carefully yet will never understand,
you will look closely yet will never comprehend. 13:15 For the heart of this people has become dull; they are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ 13:16 “But your eyes are blessed because they see, and your ears because they hear. 13:17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

In Luke:

10:21 On that same occasion Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will. 10:22 All things have been given to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son decides to reveal him.”

I hope these help a bit 🙂
 
Whatever Girl,

Although this doesn’t help much, the part you find confusing is a reference to Isaiah 6:11.

It occurs to me that when Jesus did speak plainly to the crowds, as He did in John 6, the results were not too encouraging. The idea, then, might be that if you are serious about following Jesus, you will understand the meanings of the parables (or have them explained to you), but if you are just curious about what is going on (or just looking for a free lunch) you will get nothing but cute stories. But I cannot say for sure.
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
Whatever Girl,

Although this doesn’t help much, the part you find confusing is a reference to Isaiah 6:11.

It occurs to me that when Jesus did speak plainly to the crowds, as He did in John 6, the results were not too encouraging. The idea, then, might be that if you are serious about following Jesus, you will understand the meanings of the parables (or have them explained to you), but if you are just curious about what is going on (or just looking for a free lunch) you will get nothing but cute stories. But I cannot say for sure.
  • Liberian
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Hey liberian…what do u mean…looking for a free lunch? can u better explain…thanks!
 
Faith is a gift from God, so those who believe were given the gift of faith. (so they understood what Jesus was saying)

Those who do not believe were not given the gift - so they look but do not see, hear but do not understand.

Since God is all-knowing, He knows who will accept this gift and who will reject it in advance, so although He desires all to be saved, it is still up to the individual. It’s as if God doesn’t bother giving the gift if it’s going to be rejected anyhow.

This is my understanding.
 
I have been told over and over again that this scripture is talking about the “wheat and the chaf” (ones that will hear and accept what they hear /ones that refuse to hear and as a result will not accept)
bet that was as helpful as a box of rocks when you need pencils, but that is what I have been told.
 
carol_marie said:
Faith is a gift from God, so those who believe were given the gift of faith. (so they understood what Jesus was saying)

Those who do not believe were not given the gift - so they look but do not see, hear but do not understand.

Since God is all-knowing, He knows who will accept this gift and who will reject it in advance, so although He desires all to be saved, it is still up to the individual. It’s as if God doesn’t bother giving the gift if it’s going to be rejected anyhow.

This is my understanding.
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Yes this makes sense…the Scripture here would appear that God, in advance, (since He is omniscient) would know who will follow and who won’t…It’s always intrigued me, that passage! thanks for your help

and thanks to everyone for your help…
 

I’ll bite 😃​

The parable is about the kingdom, or kingly rule, of God. And this kingship is not a political one - it is a Kingship which is embodied in Jesus: where He is present among men, there is the Kingship of God.

He is the Messiah, the Anointed of the LORD - but He does not use this title Himself, because it had too many misleading associations; if He had used it, that would have led men to think that His Kingship was of a nationalistic, patriotic sort; one that involved booting out the hated Roman occupiers & the Herodian kings (who were not even fully Jewish: they were half-Edomite; & the Edomites were hated by the Jews - see the Prophet Obadiah). The Romans were Top Nation in Jesus’ time, & one of the elements in the Messianic idea was that the kingdom of Judah would be restored by a royal descendant of David, to whom God had sworn that He would grant a line of descendants which would never fail - and it would rule “from sea to sea” (see Psalm 72). The problem is, that it is not difficult to turn the promises of God into a guarantee that, whatever one does, & however faithless one may be, one will be exempt from God’s judgements: so that judgement is something that falls upon the enemies of Judah.

What Jesus does, is bring in the Kingship of God, as the Messiah, but in a way which veiled His identity as Messiah. That is one of the reasons He calls Himself “the Son of Man” - in order to be the Messiah, He avoids the limited, political, nationalistic overtones of the title, & refuses to be that kind of king. He is a king - but, not in that way. He has come to destroy, not the Romans & their empire, but the devil & his empire. His Kingship is not less that was indicated in the OT - it is even better than was indicated; for He is so truly the Anointed King, that it is absolutely true that His Kingdom will not fail; it really will outlast the moon (Psalm 72) And he destroys the devil’s empire by dying, which is why the Cross is essential to an understanding of His Kingship; for John, it is on that Cross that He is “lifted up” as king, like the LORD in Isaiah 6, whom Isaiah sees as “the King, the LORD of Hosts”. Jesus is this same exalted LORD, & the Cross is His Kingly Throne. But a suffering, dying, Messiah was not expected by the Jews - which is one of the reasons the Cross was so shocking, & is still.

The “mystery”, is the secret purpose of the Father, which He prepared “from before the foundation of the world”; it is His purpose to bring in His Kingship by exalting Jesus His Son. This mystery is now an open secret, one which is to be made known, to be preached, not to the Jews only, but to every living creature. All are called to recognise Jesus as LORD, but only those who are chosen can do so; it is granted to them to do so, just as it was granted by the Father to Peter to do so. But unless this Kingship of Jesus is revealed by the Father, it cannot be recognised. The purpose of the parables is to open this secret to those with ears to hear; this is the secret purpose, the mystery, St. Paul speaks of.

Hope this is some help :o ##
 
wow, Michael…thank you for taking the time to relay that for us…I learned so much. 🙂 I have always pondered the ‘Son of Man’ phrase throughout Scripture, but always interpreted it to mean…"Son of God, Son of Man,’ as He was not conceived in a purely human way…nor in a purely Divine way–both human and Divine. But, your explanation is rather intriguing…thank you for your insight.
 
different insight on Isa 6:13
Verses 11, 12 and 13: These verses have a different reading in the LXX which is supported by the Qumran text. The KJV translation in vs 11 says that Isaiah should keep preaching until there is no one left. The KJV also makes vs 12 to support the same idea and it emphasizes the emptiness of the land. But this is not the meaning. The broader context of Isaiah predicts the expulsion of the nation of Israel with a remnant of true believers “left in Zion” who will be returned to the land and to whom a restoration of former blessings will be given. The Septuagint (LXX) predicts this return to holiness as the answer to Isaiah’s question, “How long?” The return to holiness is the terminal point, not “until no one exists any longer.” The LXX text says: After these events take men far away, God will increase those having been abandoned (the remnant) and they will fill up the earth. And the tenth (remnant) which is yet in the earth shall again be for God’s providential thought, as a great tree or an oak when it sheds it leaves, which leaves are the seed of holiness, her memorial The reading “the seed of holiness” instead of “holy seed” is possible in the Masoretic text while the Qumran text clearly has a construct form adding a definite article to the word “holiness” which makes certain that the phrase is “the seed of holiness” and not “holy seed.” It is the providential thought which is the seed.
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Burning: The Hebrew text also contains the word “burning” (lit. for burning) [translated “shall be eaten”] to refer to the spread of the remnant which is also pictured “like a tree shedding leaves.” It is this word “burning” that the LXX translates as “providential thought.” The burning is a part of the Messiah’s method of spreading his message. See also notes under 4:4 and 9:5 where “burning” occurs as key words in understanding the text although seemingly obscure. “Burning” is consistently linked (at least through chapter 12) with the spiritual power and enthusiasm of the Messiah and his method of conquest, as described where he is said to strike the earth with the rod of his mouth and to slay the wicked with the breath of his lips. Thus Verse 13 describes the restored remnant as a tenth part of the nation becoming effervescent and spreading the restored truth it already contains. It will “again” be strong and spread like “wildfire” and like a great tree shedding its leaves so the remnant, which has within it, as a memorial, the seed of holiness, shall shed it abroad. The KJV word “substance” is from a word that refers to: a memorial, pillar, representative stone, or a statue. The word appears twice in the Hebrew text of vs 13 in Hebrew, Thus: (matstseveth bam zera’ qodesh matstsavtah) which means “her memorial is in them, the seed of holiness is her memorial.” The idea that the substance of the seed of holiness is already in the remnant or those “left in Zion” is able to be seen in the KJV too, although a bit more obscure, but it is clearer in the original language and the variant reading of the LXX which makes the main message in these last two verses: “the future will see a rebirth of the holiness of God’s message” which the LXX sees as “already existent precognitive thoughts.” When this condition is reached then Isaiah’s commission will have expired.
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As an addenda to the last thought I am adding the translation of the Aramaic Targum to Isaiah of verse 13. The Targums which are a translation and interpretive explanation of the text, were initially made in the intertestament period from 300 to 400 BCE and forward. Although added to after the time of Jesus they were initially composed before.
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Translated Targum in British English of Isaiah 6:13 And a tenth shall be left in it, and they shall be burnt up again: like a terebinth and like an oak, which appear to be dried up when their leaves fall, though they still retain their moisture to preserve a seed from them: so the exiles for Israel shall be gathered together, and shall return to their land; for a holy seed is their plant.
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ao.net/~fmoeller/isa3-6.htm

This is worth printing too.
hendrickson.com/pdf/chapters/1565637658-ch01.pdf
 
And some seed fell on good soil, and when it grew,
it produced fruit a hundredfold.”
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One thought I’ve kept with me lately is that the seed does what it wills in the good soil. The sower is the means in which the seed ends up in good soil but the seed does what it wills…
This is how the Kingdom of God is…it is happening…as silently as a tree seed or flower seed comes forth from the ground and bears fruit. May all those who hear and receive be bearers of fruit…the fruit of the Kingdom of God…a seed in good soil silently growing into beauty.

So it is the action of the seed in the good soil that fascinates me lately…The seed does what it wills. God does what He wills in all those in good soil.
 
The targums translate the Isaiah 6:9-11 as being descriptive of the people. So, it is possible that your texts is both descriptive and prescriptive of those who do not believe.
 
Whatevergirl,

Eileen has explained it: I was referring to the miracles of the loaves and fishes. In John 6 the crowds come seeking Jesus the next morning (after He had walked on the water) and His response was essentially (John 6:26) “You’re looking for me because you ate your fill yesterday, not because you are interested in the Kingdom of God.”
  • Liberian
 
Liberian said:
Whatevergirl,

Eileen has explained it: I was referring to the miracles of the loaves and fishes. In John 6 the crowds come seeking Jesus the next morning (after He had walked on the water) and His response was essentially (John 6:26) “You’re looking for me because you ate your fill yesterday, not because you are interested in the Kingdom of God.”
  • Liberian
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Oh I see!! Yes…you summed it up rather well, above. LOL:D
 
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