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RBushlow
Guest
I don’t think any Dogma, such as the Immaculate Conception, will be changing any time before the Second Coming.
Can someone remain "neutral" about Mary & still become Catholic?
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jpusateri
Guest
It’s unfortunate, but your friend is still “shopping” for a church whose doctrines he “accepts”. It doesn’t make sense to search for a church where your beliefs agree with theirs. (Maybe someone knows better than you! )
The problem is not with the Marian doctrines. It is, at heart, with the authority of the Magisterium of the Church.
If you can convince your friend of the authority of the Church, then it is a small step to ask him to accept that authority’s teachings on the blessed virgin Mary.
I pray that helps you.
The problem is not with the Marian doctrines. It is, at heart, with the authority of the Magisterium of the Church.
If you can convince your friend of the authority of the Church, then it is a small step to ask him to accept that authority’s teachings on the blessed virgin Mary.
I pray that helps you.
V
vudster
Guest
Right on! I too am a convert who struggled developing a close relationship with the Virgin. I know that fear plays a role for some in the following way. Protestants have been taught very carefully to reject any person not part of the Trinity. In this way, thinking of Mary in any capacity except “peer” is unsettling at first. I will pray that such fears and reservations are broken by the gentle attention and affection of Blessed Mary herself - like she did for me. There is a whole new world out there for those who finally make it home!
C
carol_marie
Guest
Thanks everyone for your responses. I feel badly for my friend because she believes and really loves many things about the church - it’s just this Mary thing that is her stumbling point. She WANTS to believe what the Cathoic Chruch teaches about Mary but in her heart she feels she’s being disloyal to Jesus and possibly breaking the command against idolotry since to her it seems like Mary is the object of worship. Nevermind that Catholics aren’t advocating worship of Mary - I know that, and she’s heard the whole venerate vs. worhip thing but still in her conscience it is worship so she feels guilty giving that attention to Mary. Those of you who have been Catholic your entire lives will never understand how difficult it is to feel at peace with the Mary. Anyhow, maybe she could take an RCIA class which would be great because perhaps if she could see how wonderfully everything else fits together - history, scripture etc. she could trust that if the Catholic Church is right about everything else, maybe you’re right about Mary?
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Exporter
Guest
I am a convert. I became Catholic in April of 1955.
I was Catechised by the Monsenior ( 1 on 1) in Corona ,Calif.
The Monsenior was Irish-Catholic and he never mentioned Mary much at all. He didn’t much outside of the Nicene Creed. And he pounded the Creed hard!
I learned about Mary maybe 8 to 10 years later - on my own. I do not think a beginning Catholic has all the Grace that Baptism would bring. With Grace deeper understanding will come.
I was Catechised by the Monsenior ( 1 on 1) in Corona ,Calif.
The Monsenior was Irish-Catholic and he never mentioned Mary much at all. He didn’t much outside of the Nicene Creed. And he pounded the Creed hard!
I learned about Mary maybe 8 to 10 years later - on my own. I do not think a beginning Catholic has all the Grace that Baptism would bring. With Grace deeper understanding will come.
C
ConvertFromSBC
Guest
carol marie:
First of all let’s all remember that accepting the Marian doctrines does not mean she has to immediately go buy 10 rosaries and pray it daily. I know PLENTY of Catholics who never pray the rosary. Acknowledging and accepting the teachings doesn’t mean you have to then do anything about it. I believe Kimberley Hahn said that was one of the very last things she really began to warm up to. You should give her the book Hail Holy Queen and then tell her to find an RCIA class. They just started and that is exactly where she belongs right now.
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Hesychios
Guest
AMEN to this.
When we address inquirers and seekers let us focus on the Holy Trinity, the object of our worship.
Some people put waaay to much emphasis on the Marian doctrines, and lay it on heavy. They can become quite militant and drive good people away as if with a whip.
The fact is, if one was very ignorant of the Marian doctrines (many Catholics are), and had a deep devotion to God one could still be a great Catholic.
I have been running into this a lot, for years and years. A person in the goodness of her heart starts to ask questions about the faith and the first thing another (well meaning) person does is shove a string of rosary beads in her hands, as if it deserves some sort of priority. This while most cradle Catholics never use them.
Mary’s sole purpose is to point us to her son, Jesus of Nazereth, our Lord, God and Saviour! When she does this Grace abounds.
Once she has done this it would be perfectly acceptable to let her fade into the background, while we seek the face of God. If Mary was not the primary reason for the conversion she was evidently not the instrument of revelation that brought the inquirer to the church! No problem, let it be. The Holy Spirit will work in many ways.
This is not said to denigrate her person at all. I am most certain that Our Mother, the Blessed Virgin is the most humble and self effacing of God’s own, and would not seek out any glory for herself. I truly believe she posesses the finest qualities any of us could strive for, including illimmitable love for Our Lord first, and us all. She is a wonderful model of whom we could follow as an example.
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carol_marie
Guest
Thank you for your most charitable reply. I think Mary would be most pleased with your kindness and common sense. 
God Bless you, CM
God Bless you, CM
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rarndt01
Guest
Hi Carol
Mary is an intricate part of the Roman Catholic faith. Why? Because she is the mother of God, who is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To accept Jesus and not Mary, is kind of like accepting the Son and giving Mom the boot. In the Catholic faith we love Mary because she is not just Jesus’ mother, but our spiritual mother as well.
In Protestant thinking Christianity is just “me and you Jesus” and that’s it. But in the Catholic faith we are a PART of a FAMILY. Not only on earth, but in heaven as well. What do you suppose Mary, Joseph, the apostles and all the saints are doing in heaven right now? Do you suppose they are all soaking in some heavenly sauna sipping Bahama Mamas? No, they are PRAYING for us.
We not only ask Jesus to hear our prayers, but Mary and other saints as well. Because we are all ONE. For your friend to convert to being a Catholic, they must understand this wonderful truth. This is unknown in Protestant churches.
I formerly was a Baptist for 30 years and this was something I never heard of or was told. After reading the writings of the early fathers and other early writings in the early church, I was amazed how much the living saints ASKED the departed saints in heaven for aid through prayer. And many were prayers to Mary, our blessed mother. The prayer of Melito is one very early prayer.
The difficulty with doctrines of the immaculate conception and the assumption is that VERY LITTLE was ever written about Mary on these two subjects. Almost nothing .One writing says that BOTH Jesus and Mary were without “the stain of sin”. Another church traditional writing(very early) tells of Mary’s death and the apostles coming to view her and her body was taken to heaven. So there are writings in existence.
Roman Catholics accept these church traditional writings as genuine and accept them also by faith. Naturally, Protestants reject ALL church traditional writings, which is bad.
Do I believe Mary was born free of sin, ever virgin and bodily assumed to heaven? Yes, only because there IS traditional church evidence, although scant I will admit. Am I blessed by it? Yes, I rejoice that my blessed mother loves me and is praying for me.
My final advice. Make sure you explain these things to your friend if they want to convert. Because without accepting the blessed truths of Mary, one misses the joy of loving our blessed Mother. God bless.
Ron from Ohio
Mary is an intricate part of the Roman Catholic faith. Why? Because she is the mother of God, who is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To accept Jesus and not Mary, is kind of like accepting the Son and giving Mom the boot. In the Catholic faith we love Mary because she is not just Jesus’ mother, but our spiritual mother as well.
In Protestant thinking Christianity is just “me and you Jesus” and that’s it. But in the Catholic faith we are a PART of a FAMILY. Not only on earth, but in heaven as well. What do you suppose Mary, Joseph, the apostles and all the saints are doing in heaven right now? Do you suppose they are all soaking in some heavenly sauna sipping Bahama Mamas? No, they are PRAYING for us.
We not only ask Jesus to hear our prayers, but Mary and other saints as well. Because we are all ONE. For your friend to convert to being a Catholic, they must understand this wonderful truth. This is unknown in Protestant churches.
I formerly was a Baptist for 30 years and this was something I never heard of or was told. After reading the writings of the early fathers and other early writings in the early church, I was amazed how much the living saints ASKED the departed saints in heaven for aid through prayer. And many were prayers to Mary, our blessed mother. The prayer of Melito is one very early prayer.
The difficulty with doctrines of the immaculate conception and the assumption is that VERY LITTLE was ever written about Mary on these two subjects. Almost nothing .One writing says that BOTH Jesus and Mary were without “the stain of sin”. Another church traditional writing(very early) tells of Mary’s death and the apostles coming to view her and her body was taken to heaven. So there are writings in existence.
Roman Catholics accept these church traditional writings as genuine and accept them also by faith. Naturally, Protestants reject ALL church traditional writings, which is bad.
Do I believe Mary was born free of sin, ever virgin and bodily assumed to heaven? Yes, only because there IS traditional church evidence, although scant I will admit. Am I blessed by it? Yes, I rejoice that my blessed mother loves me and is praying for me.
My final advice. Make sure you explain these things to your friend if they want to convert. Because without accepting the blessed truths of Mary, one misses the joy of loving our blessed Mother. God bless.
Ron from Ohio
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Malachi4U
Guest
Could Jesus have been born from something sinful? Is there any record of Blessed Mary having sinned? Did not Jesus reluctantly obey His mother’s command to make wine at His first miracle?
I did not become Catholic because of Blessed Mary. You could say I too was reluctant to become Catholic because of her. When I learned the truth about Christ having but one Church, one body, His Catholic Church. I decided to join the Catholic Church, His body. Jesus promised to be with His Church till the end of time so I know that God protects and leads His Church (not allways the individuals who can still sin). When I accepted that Christ established authority in His Church and commanded us to obey His authority vested in His Church and told us to remain loyal to its teachings then I decided to believe what His Church established as Dogma.
I disagree with many things in the Catholic Church. For example, I believe in the death penalty and in assisted suicide for the termanely ill in pain. I however follow Christ’s teaching, the Churches teaching, that these are wrong therefor I vote against them and publically oppose them even though in private I aplaud them. Christ never said to love His commandments but He did command us to obey His commandments. I obey, I do not allways enjoy.
Hope this helps.
I did not become Catholic because of Blessed Mary. You could say I too was reluctant to become Catholic because of her. When I learned the truth about Christ having but one Church, one body, His Catholic Church. I decided to join the Catholic Church, His body. Jesus promised to be with His Church till the end of time so I know that God protects and leads His Church (not allways the individuals who can still sin). When I accepted that Christ established authority in His Church and commanded us to obey His authority vested in His Church and told us to remain loyal to its teachings then I decided to believe what His Church established as Dogma.
I disagree with many things in the Catholic Church. For example, I believe in the death penalty and in assisted suicide for the termanely ill in pain. I however follow Christ’s teaching, the Churches teaching, that these are wrong therefor I vote against them and publically oppose them even though in private I aplaud them. Christ never said to love His commandments but He did command us to obey His commandments. I obey, I do not allways enjoy.
Hope this helps.
J
jmm08
Guest
I wonder what is meant by “neutral” about Mary? I don’t think there is too much neutrality.
I’m in RCIA. I only started praying to Mary a few months ago. I started by praying like this every night before falling asleep:
1 “Our Father”, 10 “Hail Marys” and 1 “Our Father”.
That was it. I didn’t have any other prayers memorized. It only took me a few days before I started to see more about Mary.
As a Baptist, I’ve heard sermons about almost everybody in the Bible. I’ve heard about Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Paul, John the Baptist, Mary & Martha, their brother Lazarus, etc. However, I’ve never heard a sermon about Mary in a Protestant Church.
If you have read the gospels thoroughly and if you have read much of the rest of the Bible, simply pray the Hail Marys and what you have learned in your own Bible reading will come through before very long. Every obvious thing you should have learned in Church, but didn’t because of their silence, should come through before long.
Many of my wife’s Protestant friends and relatives living in England have visited Lourdes in France. And go back again and again. It puzzles me why they remain Protestants.
I’m in RCIA. I only started praying to Mary a few months ago. I started by praying like this every night before falling asleep:
1 “Our Father”, 10 “Hail Marys” and 1 “Our Father”.
That was it. I didn’t have any other prayers memorized. It only took me a few days before I started to see more about Mary.
As a Baptist, I’ve heard sermons about almost everybody in the Bible. I’ve heard about Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Paul, John the Baptist, Mary & Martha, their brother Lazarus, etc. However, I’ve never heard a sermon about Mary in a Protestant Church.
If you have read the gospels thoroughly and if you have read much of the rest of the Bible, simply pray the Hail Marys and what you have learned in your own Bible reading will come through before very long. Every obvious thing you should have learned in Church, but didn’t because of their silence, should come through before long.
Many of my wife’s Protestant friends and relatives living in England have visited Lourdes in France. And go back again and again. It puzzles me why they remain Protestants.
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sabrinaofmn
Guest
Did your friend have to accept every Protestant doctrine before she became Protestant?
Of course, we have to accept the Church and its teachings as authoritative (including Mary) in order to become Catholic, but this won’t necessarily change the way that we feel.
John Henry Newman talks about this in his Essay on Development of Doctrine. He talks about how we can have “difficulties”. Your friend has a “difficulty” with Mary. It is indeed possible to have “difficulties” with the church and still accept the Catholic Church as the true and authoritive Church.
I’m still having trouble with the Real Presence. I understand the Real Presence intellectually and biblically as sound doctrine, but I’ve been so programmed to think it’s silly that it’s taking some re-programming.
Lastly, Marian devotion isn’t mandatory. It’s optional.
Of course, we have to accept the Church and its teachings as authoritative (including Mary) in order to become Catholic, but this won’t necessarily change the way that we feel.
John Henry Newman talks about this in his Essay on Development of Doctrine. He talks about how we can have “difficulties”. Your friend has a “difficulty” with Mary. It is indeed possible to have “difficulties” with the church and still accept the Catholic Church as the true and authoritive Church.
I’m still having trouble with the Real Presence. I understand the Real Presence intellectually and biblically as sound doctrine, but I’ve been so programmed to think it’s silly that it’s taking some re-programming.
Lastly, Marian devotion isn’t mandatory. It’s optional.
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duck
Guest
i accepted the church’s teaching on Mary when i realized i needed her intercession.
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ConvertFromSBC
Guest
This is true and you should tell your friend this immediately .You can look that up in official Church teaching. Accepting the teachings about Mary–yes that is required. Marian devotion–no it is not required. Again this means “accepting” not necessarily “understanding”. For example I tell my kids to go to bed at 7 pm. They go to bed. They don’t like it. They don’t understand it but they do it. Sometimes with certain teachigns of the Church that is just where we have to start out. I would also HIGHLY recommend that you get your friend some materials that explain to her the difference between what is official teaching and what is not.I would also rush her anything by Scott Hahn. He is a very inspirational teacher. I find him to be the best antidote out there for someone who is on the fence.
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twf
Guest
But we neglect to point out how strongly the Church encourages us to foster a devotion to our Lady. Christ desires us to love His Blessed Mother. He gave her to us as our Mother. Obviously if a person is still at a point in their journey where they find our Lady’s role hard to accept, that is understandable…but ultimately, Christ desires that all of us come closer to Him through the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Remember in my earlier post, I quoted from the Catechism where it tells us that Marian devotion is intrinsic to Christian worship. The two go hand in hand. Once we understand the Marian doctrines, how can one adore Christ and not venerate Mary? It is not possible.
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mercygate
Guest
carol marie:
Then drop the subject and focus on the Creed. Mary wants you and your friend to focus on her Son; the Marian doctrines are affirmations of Him. Get her solid in her Christology and the Marian issues will solve themselves.
Prowl the web for a few minutes and find the sources on Luther’s devotion to Mary. All the Protestant reformers held all of the doctrines of the Catholic Church concerning Mary.
Then drop the subject and focus on the Creed. Mary wants you and your friend to focus on her Son; the Marian doctrines are affirmations of Him. Get her solid in her Christology and the Marian issues will solve themselves.
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