Can someone tell me how to handle this situation?

[AdamP88]

Put it this way: leaving aside the (many) moral issues involved, this kind of behavior is considered Just Plain Rude by generally-accepted standards, and it will well-behoove the young gentlemen in question to learn that sooner rather than later.

I have a number of non-Catholic, secular friends. I’d hazard a guess that at least a few of them don’t have a problem with porn from a moral perspective. Nonetheless, they wouldn’t dream of pulling up porn when I’m in the room. Why? Because it would make me uncomfortable, and that’s not something you do to either a guest or a host.

Again, from an entirely secular perspective: in a few years, it’s reasonable to assume that these kids will be holding down jobs. Doing something like that on the clock or at a place of business is an excellent way to get fired for sexual harassment/inappropriate behavior.

Yes. Exactly. Even if they have no problem with the porn/inappropriate comments in itself, surely they would be upset by the rudeness of the kids.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Put it this way: leaving aside the (many) moral issues involved, this kind of behavior is considered Just Plain Rude by generally-accepted standards, and it will well-behoove the young gentlemen in question to learn that sooner rather than later.

I have a number of non-Catholic, secular friends. I’d hazard a guess that at least a few of them don’t have a problem with porn from a moral perspective. Nonetheless, they wouldn’t dream of pulling up porn when I’m in the room. Why? Because it would make me uncomfortable, and that’s not something you do to either a guest or a host.

Again, from an entirely secular perspective: in a few years, it’s reasonable to assume that these kids will be holding down jobs. Doing something like that on the clock or at a place of business is an excellent way to get fired for sexual harassment/inappropriate behavior.

I see what you two are saying. (you: UbiCaritas and AdamPeter) Maybe I will say something to them -the parents- soon. Its been bothering me.

Thanks to all for your replies and prayers.

 

[Trident_H]

Thanks Trident, but I suppose I was afraid. I know its dumb and sounds stupid since these are children, but I didn’t want to be near this. I just wanted to leave.

I understand. I mean it was probably all in a minute of shock and confusion. I get it. No worries.

 

[Joelle_M]

Thanks, its definitely extremely unbearable to be around them for me because of all this… not just this event, but others too. I’m trying to keep the peace, not rock the boat, forgive, pray and just go on with things for the sake of family and friends.

I don’t feel like talking with her about this because I don’t see anything changing, other than me becoming ‘the bad guy’ in their eyes. But I also feel a pressure coming from a faith standpoint. However, you can point to scripture, the catechism, books… what-have-you and even be very kind and loving about it, but you will be the religious weirdo nut who has a problem minding her own business or who is over the top about nothing.

Yet at the same time I didn’t want to leave thinking those boys thought because I said nothing to them about it, that I thought it was normal or ok for them to do this! (I’m hoping because I quickly left the area that maybe that was a clue? I don’t think they cared though one way or the other and I don’t think it would matter.) I feel very confused because I am not a parent and I shouldn’t have to do anything about this. Its really not my responsibility- or is it? I am also one who thinks it takes a village, but if your whole village is insane with sin, loves their sin, brandishes their sin like its a funny joke and mocks those who think you’re a kook for believing in God,… what do you do? I am also confused by their own claims to be catholic… yet have separate beliefs about things apparently. Saying one thing, doing another. We have separate beliefs yet we’re supposed to be ‘one’ in faith? How DO you talk with someone who shares a different view of The Faith? Which one of us is wrong? Which one of us is right?

I have also been told by others that this is normal ‘male’ stuff and to just ignore it. I’d RATHER ignore it, but how can you when THEY IGNORE YOU and do things like this when you are around? If they have no shame and no thought thinking that this woman they are watching isn’t someone’s daughter, mother, sister, friend… etc… then what care do they actually have for women in general themselves? What hope does the world have if these are the future men? *What future do the young women have??? *

You raise some very valid points. I guess in the end, you’re right, you aren’t their parent and shouldn’t have to parent kids that don’t belong to you. But you do have a right to point out when someone is doing something wrong. Don’t do it in an accusing or mean way- speak from a place of love. I’d want someone to tell me if I was doing something to offend God. In the end, even if their parent doesn’t agree (which would leave me dumbfounded)… you did what was right. It may not make a difference- but then again, you’ll never know if you don’t try. If pointing out that it’s a sin presents it in a way that will make them tune it out- then rephrase it. Make it about you being concerned that such young boys were watching something they shouldn’t be… and what’s worse- they were subjecting a MUCH younger boy to it. That’s really not right.

As for people’s different faith beliefs. I don’t know. I struggle myself- more so than ever right now with my own faith. I just jeep reminding myself that I’m being tested. You can’t control people’s perceptions on the faith, all you can do is help them along when you think they need it, and hope your words reach them. In the end, some of your views may be wrong… but God knows your heart. If you are letting go and letting God take the wheel, then you can’t go wrong. That’s what I’m doing anyway. I don’t expect that i’ll have all of the answers and do everything right in my lifetime- but i’m going to adhere to everything I KNOW to be true, and put my trust in the fact that he sees me trying.

 

[CradleJourney]

Unfortunately this friend is friend of family, so its not a situation that can be easily avoided. I can’t just say, I don’t want to visit this friend anymore- If i want to see my family, I will surely eventually cross paths with them. I’ve known them for a long time but do not converse with them frequently.

One other note friend is catholic. So are the boys. I don’t think she takes them to confession (In her favor, I’m not sure how I would know, but I never hear it mentioned) and I do know they receive holy communion anyway. (this is partially why I have the ‘no longer catholic by worldly standards’ line in my profile… it was a point that not all who call themselves catholic are respectfully following or believing in the guidelines. Yes, my profile has confused a lot of people. May be changing it here soon. I hate labels because of this. I take the label “Catholic” seriously as what you do carries the Name of God basically .)

That’s the thing though- Friend did not leave the children in my care. She just left. The neighborhood they live in kind of acts as surrogate parent- even though no one is really watching. They all run from each others houses and back all day long. She never mentioned the kids, or watch the kids for me. In her defense, they are older. These are over the age of 10- except the younger one which I guess the parents thought he’s be ok and safe with the older ones. They were not in the vicinity at the time friend left.

I had asked the father once not to take the Lord’s name in vain as it was hurting me greatly to hear him use the Holy Name as a swear word (at the time I was discerning to be a nun) He blew up at me, started yelling and told me not to correct him in his house and to get out of his home- I guess he thought I was rude- even thought i asked kindly and not in demanding, look down your nose rude kind of way. (It was seriously hurtful to me as a Christian to hear that). The rest of the day, everyone there including my family members who were also visiting thought I was a “*itch” for it and inciting such anger in him. Later he did apologize to me, but the rest of the day friend was very livid with me for making him angry and acted like I was the one had a serious problem. (Like I was rude.) I was greatly upset by the incident. This is why it is difficult to discern what to do in this particular scenario.

I can certainly understand your difficulty given the past interaction with the father and the shock of the incident.

That said, I, personally, would have still gone off on the boys - because (as someone else mentioned) it doesn’t matter the parents beliefs on porn, it is still not something displayed or discussed in front of a casual guest.

The direction I would have taken would have been one of high indignation because of the demeaning aspect of this against women - and how I could not stand by while young men were treating women as objects of scorn and derision (their jokes/etc).

My hope would be that by using the political correctness of feminism, the parent(s) would be thrown off balance enough to maybe take a thought about their children’s behavior (rather than react to it as a case of my uptight “morals”).

 

[EasterJoy]

I think it might help to note here I suffer from illness that disables me. I need my family around me. I am not married. I don’t have the ability to just get up and go anywhere and do anything I want due to illness. Often, emotional upsets make it worse for me, exacerbates the illness. I have had to learn how to keep my cool not only just for moral faith purposes, but especially for health purposes too.

Oh, sorry I missed that as a joke. Sometimes hard to read posts as the poster meant. I apologize.

I do think this is out of my hands… though I do think I should have told the friend about it.

I think it is water under the bridge and you are right: both faith and health concerns argue in favor of learning to distance yourself emotionally when you’d like to distance yourself physically and cannot.

Let that incident go. You are not sitting on information that might have kept their child from becoming a runaway or a drug addict. You are sitting on information that a porn-user’s children have started to look at porn. If the parents don’t run across further evidence in the very near future, I’d be stunned. I’d also be stunned if they manage to be stunned themselves when this situation becomes clear. If one of the parents of the neighborhood children don’t tell them, it will probably be for reasons close to yours.

You are not talking about parents who have done everything in their power to keep their children innocent. I don’t think I’d bank on the idea that they want to be told their children were rude and out of control, not when self-control is a fairly low priority for them, personally.

Your task right now is deciding how to manage yourself, how you want to act, what treatment you are and are not going to tolerate, how you’re going to draw and enforce your boundaries, how you want to make this an opportunity for spiritual advancement and spiritual works of mercy. I’d say that is something to work out with a spiritual director. Do you have someone like that? In light of your difficult situation and your past willingness to join a religious community, your pastor might be willing to help you find someone.

(Have you purposefully decided to remain unmarried? Have you thought of becoming a consecrated virgin? These are also things to consider with a spiritual director.)

 

[Viki63]

Just a passing thought – if you run into this mother again, you might say to her, “you know, letting your boys watch porn has been shown to cause serious damage to the mind and emotions as they grow up,”
If she asked what on earth you’re talking about, you could explain what happened.
From a mental health and future marital health standpoint, porn watching is poison. You don’t even have to bring the church’s teachings into it.

,

 

[AnneElizabeth]

You raise some very valid points. I guess in the end, you’re right, you aren’t their parent and shouldn’t have to parent kids that don’t belong to you. But you do have a right to point out when someone is doing something wrong. Don’t do it in an accusing or mean way- speak from a place of love. I’d want someone to tell me if I was doing something to offend God. In the end, even if their parent doesn’t agree (which would leave me dumbfounded)… you did what was right. It may not make a difference- but then again, you’ll never know if you don’t try. If pointing out that it’s a sin presents it in a way that will make them tune it out- then rephrase it. Make it about you being concerned that such young boys were watching something they shouldn’t be… and what’s worse- they were subjecting a MUCH younger boy to it. That’s really not right.

As for people’s different faith beliefs. I don’t know. I struggle myself- more so than ever right now with my own faith. I just jeep reminding myself that I’m being tested. You can’t control people’s perceptions on the faith, all you can do is help them along when you think they need it, and hope your words reach them. In the end, some of your views may be wrong… but God knows your heart. If you are letting go and letting God take the wheel, then you can’t go wrong. That’s what I’m doing anyway. I don’t expect that i’ll have all of the answers and do everything right in my lifetime- but i’m going to adhere to everything I KNOW to be true, and put my trust in the fact that he sees me trying.

Thanks Joelle. I’ve been really grieved over this since it happened… .on so many levels too. Its like watching a disaster happen, and you can yell, scream, warn, but no one is listening. Well, these people aren’t… not talking about the people here at CA. I thank you all for your kind replies.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I can certainly understand your difficulty given the past interaction with the father and the shock of the incident.

That said, I, personally, would have still gone off on the boys - because (as someone else mentioned) it doesn’t matter the parents beliefs on porn, it is still not something displayed or discussed in front of a casual guest.

The direction I would have taken would have been one of high indignation because of the demeaning aspect of this against women - and how I could not stand by while young men were treating women as objects of scorn and derision (their jokes/etc).

My hope would be that by using the political correctness of feminism, the parent(s) would be thrown off balance enough to maybe take a thought about their children’s behavior (rather than react to it as a case of my uptight “morals”).

Thanks for the ideas… I will think all this over.

 

[Joelle_M]

Thanks Joelle. I’ve been really grieved over this since it happened… .on so many levels too. Its like watching a disaster happen, and you can yell, scream, warn, but no one is listening. Well, these people aren’t… not talking about the people here at CA. I thank you all for your kind replies.

Just keep praying on it… as well as pray for them. There’s very little we can do. We can’t convert anyone (it almost feels like many catholics today need a conversion of sorts)… they need an awakening. I hope this doesn’t sound wrong- I identify as one of these in a way. I try to adhere to catholic teachings as much as possible… but I struggle daily with so many doubts.
As much as we want it for then, we’re powerless. All we can do is pray and let the Holy Spirit do what he does best.

My prayers are with you, i’ll recite a rosary for you and your intensions tonight

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I think it is water under the bridge and you are right: both faith and health concerns argue in favor of learning to distance yourself emotionally when you’d like to distance yourself physically and cannot.

Let that incident go. You are not sitting on information that might have kept their child from becoming a runaway or a drug addict. You are sitting on information that a porn-user’s children have started to look at porn. If the parents don’t run across further evidence in the very near future, I’d be stunned. I’d also be stunned if they manage to be stunned themselves when this situation becomes clear. If one of the parents of the neighborhood children don’t tell them, it will probably be for reasons close to yours.

You are not talking about parents who have done everything in their power to keep their children innocent. I don’t think I’d bank on the idea that they want to be told their children were rude and out of control, not when self-control is a fairly low priority for them, personally.

Your task right now is deciding how to manage yourself, how you want to act, what treatment you are and are not going to tolerate, how you’re going to draw and enforce your boundaries, how you want to make this an opportunity for spiritual advancement and spiritual works of mercy. I’d say that is something to work out with a spiritual director. Do you have someone like that? In light of your difficult situation and your past willingness to join a religious community, your pastor might be willing to help you find someone.

(Have you purposefully decided to remain unmarried? Have you thought of becoming a consecrated virgin? These are also things to consider with a spiritual director.)

Easter Joy,

Thanks.

You are right to say that this has not been the only incident. There have been a few others- sexual in nature- that I have heard about from others. I’m not sure how they exactly handled those situations. I am hoping the parents and the kids grow more sensible about the harmful nature of these things. Sometimes I wonder if this started when the youngest boy was molested by an older boy. (ages 5 and 12 when it occured) …And that the parents lax attitude about sex was like the perfect breeding ground for sin to take root. ? You know, people NEVER stop to think that as a kid being sexually molested by another kid is just as damaging as if it were an adult. People tend to excuse it as ‘kids will be kids’ but I’d be willing to bet the repercussions of such a thing are just as vastly destructive. I do know the youngest struggles with behavioral problems. Doesn’t really have any friends and sticks to self.

Thanks for the guidance and questions to ask myself… I think part of the problem is, how can someone be prepared for something they don’t even know about? I certainly was never expecting what I saw that day- which is the very reason why I couldn’t react. I’m glad I asked about this here as I certainly feel a bit better on how I would act now if it happened again.

My spiritual director died a few years back. Its been difficult to continue, confusing to ‘restart’ with someone else. I’m taking Joelle’s suggestion in ‘letting go and letting God’ as they say, for right now.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Just keep praying on it… as well as pray for them. There’s very little we can do. We can’t convert anyone (it almost feels like many catholics today need a conversion of sorts)… they need an awakening. I hope this doesn’t sound wrong- I identify as one of these in a way. I try to adhere to catholic teachings as much as possible… but I struggle daily with so many doubts.
As much as we want it for then, we’re powerless. All we can do is pray and let the Holy Spirit do what he does best.

My prayers are with you, i’ll recite a rosary for you and your intensions tonight

Thanks Joelle,

I appreciate that. I can tell last night someone must have prayed for me because grace just poured in and I had that peace that surpasses understanding. So, whoever you are, thank you so much. Thanks be to God!

I feel the same way about things-  I too was one of those catholics that needed converting!  It was a huge wake up call, and scary to see what I thought i was, I was not and how far away from practicing the truth I was... I thought I was ok!   I was not!    You seem to be doing better than I am...  I used to have doubts all the time like you say you do here, but sadly its just turned into something akin to bitterness I suppose.  I know I am wrong in it but don't know how to change it.   So I rather be where you are- in doubting!    I do know this:  it is SO much better to be trying to please the Lord than pleasing self or others.  There really is much real joy in doing what God says to do.  Its just very difficult, but so is life without it too, so I rather be with God struggling and striving to remain there.

Thanks again.

 

[Joelle_M]

Thanks Joelle,

I appreciate that. I can tell last night someone must have prayed for me because grace just poured in and I had that peace that surpasses understanding. So, whoever you are, thank you so much. Thanks be to God!

I feel the same way about things-  I too was one of those catholics that needed converting!  It was a huge wake up call, and scary to see what I thought i was, I was not and how far away from practicing the truth I was... I thought I was ok!   I was not!    You seem to be doing better than I am...  I used to have doubts all the time like you say you do here, but sadly its just turned into something akin to bitterness I suppose.  I know I am wrong in it but don't know how to change it.   So I rather be where you are- in doubting!    I do know this:  it is SO much better to be trying to please the Lord than pleasing self or others.  There really is much real joy in doing what God says to do.  Its just very difficult, but so is life without it too, so I rather be with God struggling and striving to remain there.

Thanks again.

Well, I don’t know how good i’m doing, but i’m definitely trying. For me- my doubt leads me to wondering whether all this effort is even worth it. I get to wondering if i’m right at all- because if so may evangelicals are right- my efforts are for nothing and i’m headed for hell anyway. It’s a scary thought. I’m afraid of looking outside of my catholic faith for answers- afraid that if I do- my weak state may sucker me into their doctrines. But what if they’re right? Religion can be a scary thing- at least it is for me right now. I’m fighting a force bigger than myself right now- a force which threatens my faith.

I’m wondering if perhaps it’s my own version of a spiritual darkness of sorts. Or maybe- my perception of what faith is supposed to feel like is just wrong. In my head- I want to believe that the more you search- the less doubt you should struggle with… but that’s not always the case, because the more you search- the harder the devil works to confuse you and make your life hard.

I just want to know- I wish I could know- what God wants from me. I wish I knew how He wants me to worship Him… so I can stop offending Him. If I knew- all of my turmoil and struggles would be so much easier to deal with.

I guess that’s what makes faith so hard- for everyone. We each have to fight our perceptions and sometimes work outside the box in the hopes of finding our answers. I just hope i’m doing enough.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Thanks Anglewannabe- but the friend doesn’t know. I never told her about it. (yet)

Well, I have no idea what her kids have done before, but… Somehow I don’t think she would be too shocked to find out

I suspect she already knows her kids look at porn regularly, and maybe she doesn’t care…

And that is why I would never consider such a woman a friend. How can she respect you when she clearly doesn’t respect herself

As I said before, this is friend of the family type thing… known for years, but we are not close.

And if you are not that close, I find it odd you were left with her kids. Sure you might see her in a group but there is no reason to go to her house

Angie

 

[anon67074017]

I wouldn’t have gotten involved. I do not want to act fascist. It is their problem. They are not harming other people.

 

[EasterJoy]

I wouldn’t have gotten involved. I do not want to act fascist. It is their problem. They are not harming other people.

My mother wouldn’t have considered the way they were acting around a guest a great deal different than mooning her. I wouldn’t have any trouble telling them to cut it out. If they said, “Our mom lets us do it,” I’d say, “I’m not your mom, but I’m the adult here. I don’t tolerate grade school kids flashing porn at me. Cut it out.”

 

[Latinitas]

Feel free to tell your friend now. If I were her, I’d want to know.

If this sort of thing happens again, be very firm, collect the phone from the boys, tell your friend when she’s free, and leave and let her handle it privately. If they won’t hand over the phone, inform them that you’re going to interrupt your friend’s phone call to tell her what’s going on.

With a little practice, it’s possible for an adult woman to put the fear of God into tween boys and young men. Some helpful phrases:

“That’s not appropriate.”

“You know you’re not supposed to be doing that.”

“You are giving a bad example to your younger brother.” (If I were one of the moms, I’d be most infuriated that they’d exposed the 8-year-old to this stuff.)

“EXCUSE ME.”

Good luck!

I agree, and I would add that it is in fact a great act of charity to these boys that you tell their mother, so that they might be corrected.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Well, I have no idea what her kids have done before, but… Somehow I don’t think she would be too shocked to find out

And that is why I would never consider such a woman a friend. How can she respect you when she clearly doesn’t respect herself

And if you are not that close, I find it odd you were left with her kids. Sure you might see her in a group but there is no reason to go to her house

Angie

If you go back and read my threads, you will see that these are people who have been associated with my family and that I have known them for many years, but that we are not close. Meaning, I do not call them, I don’t hang out with them. I call them friend because they are friends of my family. Perhaps I should have used acquaintance I know from many years back but do not really keep in touch with. ?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I agree, and I would add that it is in fact a great act of charity to these boys that you tell their mother, so that they might be corrected.

Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas

I agree. I’ve decided this is what I’m going to do.

Many thanks to all for their help and good advice here.

 

[Franciscan_Way]

From the background info, it sounds like if you said anything to your friend or her husband, you may have been fighting a losing battle! BUT, I wouldn’t let it stop me from saying something! Comfortable, no!!!

You said that the boys are: not supervised, given unlimited access to audiovisuals/electronics, the parents have an “anything goes” mentality in regard to sex, and on top of all that, Dad has a stack of magazines that objectify women in the privacy of the bathroom!!! Wow!!!

This brings back memories. In my early 20’s, my husband’s cousin hired me for a couple of years as a nanny for her 4 yr old son and 2 yr old daughter. The children’s dad had multiple copies of Playboy magazines toilet side and a sign in the basement just feet away from his kiddos toys that said, “I love p*$$y”. He also asked his son if he had ever seen me take a shower and when he said “Yes” the dad said, “You’re lucky.” So you can imagine the direction things can easily go in when THIS is the example for impressionable boys.
In this case, the parents divorced soon after. The dad had a terrible drinking problem which killed him a few years later. My husband’s cousin remarried a man who was very devoted to her and the kids and a great role model!

I believe so much of what we learn comes from the examples set by Mom and Dad or whoever the adult figure in a child’s life is. 2nd, of course, is the peer group. The media and society have not helped out much either. I recently heard the statement that anyone we choose to spend time with either increases our standards or lowers them. This is SO true for children, but I think also important as adults. I guess the message these kids need to hear from a responsible adult is “It’s NOT ok”.

I hope you don’t have to deal with anything like this again. God bless you!