Can something become sinful simply by thinking it might be?

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BrandonR

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Hi, I have a question.

If you aren’t sure if something is sinful and you do it anyways, knowing that it could possibly be sinful, does this make it a sin?

It definitely couldn’t be a mortal sin, could it?
 
BrandonR said:
Hi, I have a question.

If you aren’t sure if something is sinful and you do it anyways, knowing that it could possibly be sinful, does this make it a sin?

It definitely couldn’t be a mortal sin, could it?
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It depends.
 
Well, if you’re not sure, I’m pretty sure that negates the ‘full knowledge’ requirement, so it wouldn’t be a mortal sin at the very least.
 
BrandonR said:
Hi, I have a question.

If you aren’t sure if something is sinful and you do it anyways, knowing that it could possibly be sinful, does this make it a sin?

It definitely couldn’t be a mortal sin, could it?
Click to expand...
Brandon, here is just my opinion. The action itself won’t be sinful, but you might sin through intention in this way. If you think something is sinful but you do it, - not under obedience to a priest who says it’s not sinful - but while you are still convinced it is a sin… that shows a choice away from God… the intention is wrong. So yes it is a type of a sin. I’d confess it just in case.

God bless
 
I don’t have a reference for this, because I don’t have the books with me, but I think it may be possible to commit sin but doing something you believe to be a sin, even if it isn’t.

The Church differentiates between “material” sin and “formal” sin. Can’t remember which is which, but one consists of doing something objectively sinful, but not being guilty of sin through ignorance. The other is doing something that isn’t objectively sinful, but being guilty, subjectively, because you believed it to be.

So for example, if someone believed that a particular feastday was a Holyday of Obligation and deliberately chose not to go to Mass, they would be subjectively guilty of missing Mass that day. They deliberately chose to do something they believed they were seriously obliged to do and went against their conscience, even though they were mis-informed.
 
Sorry, I should have finished my previous post by saying: They deliberately chose NOT to do something they believed they were seriously obliged to do and went against their conscience, even though they were mis-informed.
 
Paul’s letter to the Romans talks about eating meat that has been offered to idols and whether it is a sin or not. He comes to this conclusion: “But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.” Romans 14:23.

So this is saying that if you believe something is a sin, and you go ahead and do it anyway, even if it is not technically a sin, you are still guilty because you have violated your conscience. Just as the reverse is true - if someone, for instance, truly does not know that it is required to go to Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation, they are not guilty of sin if they do not go to church. It all comes down to what is going on in your mind.
 
Brooklyn said:
Paul’s letter to the Romans talks about eating meat that has been offered to idols and whether it is a sin or not. He comes to this conclusion: “But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.” Romans 14:23.

So this is saying that if you believe something is a sin, and you go ahead and do it anyway, even if it is not technically a sin, you are still guilty because you have violated your conscience. Just as the reverse is true - if someone, for instance, truly does not know that it is required to go to Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation, they are not guilty of sin if they do not go to church. It all comes down to what is going on in your mind.
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This is a very good point. Morality is not about NOT doing what we KNOW to be wrong, and everything else is licit. Morality is about only doing what we KNOW to be right. If we don’t know if something is sinful, we have a duty to research it before we do it… otherwise we are treating our redemption and our call to avoid sin as though it is not important enough to play a major factor in determining right action.
 
If you believe that a certain action is sinful, and you engage in that activity, then YES you have sinned. Even if the action itself is NOT sinful, the fact that you believed it was and went ahead and did it, shows that you chose the path of sin.

And YES, such behavior could be a Mortal Sin, if you believed before you did it that it would be a mortal sin.

It is your belief and how you deal with that belief that is important.
 
We all have temptations that come into our minds. It’s what we do with them that matters. Ex. If the temptation is lustful, covetous, harmful, etc, our response should be to immediately dismiss the thought from our mind. To deliberately delight in or continually contemplate any sinful activity–even without any action on our part becomes sinful in itself.
 
If you think that an act might be a grave sin, and you choose that act without caring if it is a grave sin, then you may have committed an actual mortal sin. The full knowledge requirement can be met by knowing, or firmly believing, that an act is a grave sin, OR by not caring at all if it is a grave sin. The act must also have been chosen with a full consent of the free will, called full deliberation.

But even if the act is not an actual mortal sin, no one should choose to commit an act that he thinks, with good reason, might be a sin. The intention to commit an act regardless of whether or not it might be a sin, is a sinful intention.

If you believe that an act is moral, with good reason, but have some small doubts, it would not be a sin to choose that act. We cannot be certain about every moral decision that we make. We need not be absolutely certain, only morally certain (sufficient certitude to act without sin).
 
To Ron:

Sorry to intrude on this thread but you don’t accept PMs. There are some questions on your “Abortion: Direct vs. Indirect” thread to which you haven’t responded.

Just sayin’.
 
But there’s a difference between thinking that something is absolutely-for-certain a mortal sin, and thinking that it might be, isn’t there?

If the latter is mortal sin, it would seem the scrupulous have an immensly small chance of salvation, doesn’t it?
 
I don’t know if this is true or not, please correct it if it’s wrong, but here’s what “This Rock” magazine’s scrupulousity said about this:

“A materially venial sin cannot be formally mortal. Thinking that a sin is mortal does not make it so! For there to be mortal sin, there needs to be grave matter (CCC 1857–59). This, too, is freeing for the scrupulous person who mistakenly thinks all sin is mortal.”

Is this within Church teaching?
 
McatholicN said:
I don’t know if this is true or not, please correct it if it’s wrong, but here’s what “This Rock” magazine’s scrupulousity said about this:

“A materially venial sin cannot be formally mortal. Thinking that a sin is mortal does not make it so! For there to be mortal sin, there needs to be grave matter (CCC 1857–59). This, too, is freeing for the scrupulous person who mistakenly thinks all sin is mortal.”

Is this within Church teaching?
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Yes it is. For a sin to be mortal it has to meet all three criteria:
(1) It must be a grievous act (grave matter).
(2) The person must know it’s a grievous act.
(3) The person must commit the act with full consent.

My Mom was a convert. Before she finished her classes she became extremely ill. She was actually declared dead at one point, although she wasn’t. She was so ill that my grandfather got a telegram saying that she would not last through the night. She was baptised in the hospital. She didn’t finish the classes.

My Mom had great reverence for God and for the Church. One Sunday her shoes got muddy because she had to walk to Mass and it was raining. She thought that walking into church with muddy shoes was a sin because it wasn’t showing proper respect for God. I don’t know if she thought it was a mortal sin, but I’m assuming she did (I can’t ask her as she has passed).

So she confessed her sin and the priest actually laughed, in a nice way. My Mom didn’t know that walking into church with muddy shoes is not a grievous act (it seems obvious but she was very young).

Just a side note here: I’m really proud of my Mom. She was very poor. She either had to walk or take the bus wherever she went. She worked in an office and could only afford a small apartment. Yet she walked to Mass every Sunday. Her faith was so strong. She met my Dad at church. He was walking around looking down except at church (I mean he was physically looking down at the ground wherever he went) because he didn’t want to be tempted by a woman who wasn’t Catholic. He saw my Mom at church and fell in love at first sight. She was so beautiful!!

She passed away a few years ago, never doubting her faith in the Church. She is an inspiration to me.
 
BrandonR said:
Hi, I have a question.

If you aren’t sure if something is sinful and you do it anyways, knowing that it could possibly be sinful, does this make it a sin?

It definitely couldn’t be a mortal sin, could it?
Click to expand...
I hesitated to answer this question. For it can put the cat among the scrupulous pigeons as it where …
Yes it can be.
But those with scruples or scrupulosity need to close their eyes and not scruple about this. Instead they need to ask their confessor or follow the principles they are to follow.

For in some things they are in a different boat (they would fear sin everywhere and never act!!!..they can act against their scruples and not sin…following instead their confessor…and the principles given them).
 
To YOU maybe. If you persuade yourself something enough, then it becomes true to YOU.
 
Bookcat said:
I hesitated to answer this question. For it can put the cat among the scrupulous pigeons as it where …
Yes it can be.
But those with scruples or scrupulosity need to close their eyes and not scruple about this. Instead they need to ask their confessor or follow the principles they are to follow.

For in some things they are in a different boat (they would fear sin everywhere and never act!!!..they can act against their scruples and not sin…following instead their confessor…and the principles given them).
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How does one explain this, then?
“A materially venial sin cannot be formally mortal. Thinking that a sin is mortal does not make it so! For there to be mortal sin, there needs to be grave matter (CCC 1857–59). This, too, is freeing for the scrupulous person who mistakenly thinks all sin is mortal.”

If “unsure mortal sins” are mortal, that pretty much would put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, for scrupulites. If they are to speak with their confessors to fix everything, they will need to go at least a couple times a day, right?
 
McatholicN said:
How does one explain this, then?
“A materially venial sin cannot be formally mortal. Thinking that a sin is mortal does not make it so! For there to be mortal sin, there needs to be grave matter (CCC 1857–59). This, too, is freeing for the scrupulous person who mistakenly thinks all sin is mortal.”

If “unsure mortal sins” are mortal, that pretty much would put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, for scrupulites. If they are to speak with their confessors to fix everything, they will need to go at least a couple times a day, right?
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The “thing itself” that is “venial matter” does not become grave matter…that is not the grave matter here it does not “morph”. It is rather that the person has say good reason to think it may be grave matter (like a serious reason) and does not take the reasonable means etc to find out before he does it. It is like he says “I do not care…that it may be mortal …I am just going to do it”.

To use the classic example…a hunter sees something moving up ahead…and he is not sure if it is a deer or his friend…he needs to wait until he has more certainty before he shoots. If he pulls the trigger with full knowledge and deliberate consent …such can thus be a Mortal sin …even if it turns out to be a deer (the grave matter here would be shooting while not knowing if it is a deer or another hunter) (now I am not a hunter…but this is one of the classic examples.)

Now a person with a difficulty with scrupulosity…may have some fear or thought when looking at a deer that …hum what if this deer is some child’s pet that got loose and if I kill it it will gravely hurt the child…or they might fear right as they are pulling the trigger…what if someone is just wearing a deer suit to play a joke on me…and then worry that they committed a mortal sin…

As I noted there…those with scrupulosity or scruples…are often in a very different boat that others…(Hence my hesitation in even answering the original question)…(they often have a great difficulty in this area…fearing this or that is mortal sin …they need to follow their confessors/directors and the principles given them…they can then act against their fears…their scruples…(their unreasonable unsureness) and not sin…for they are in a different boat and have formed their actual conscience by the advise of their confessor and the general principles they are to follow…(to follow in life)

Hence they have historically been told often by their confessors etc to say only take “complete certainty” into account…and to ignore the doubts that bother them…things like that…and thus they would tell them thatthey can not commit a mortal sin unless they are certain that it is grave matter and that knowing this they go ahead and do it anyway. Things like that (to give one example). The confessor will know the penitent and thus can advise him personally…as to what to follow.

(for they generally know things that would really be grave…and would be certain about them…)

It is very important that they have a regular confessor who can tailor his advice to their particular difficulties…and to help them with some* general principles* they are to follow

Of course such principles would be only given to those with scruples to one degree or another…for as I noted they can be in a different boat…they mistake all their fears etc for what they are not…and they are in danger of never acting…or doing themselves harm etc… a confessor can thus give them general principles to follow 24-7…and can then of course also answer questions and help them form their conscience.
 
If someone is convinced in his conscience that something is grave matter and with sufficient reflection freely does it, that’s going to be formally, a mortal sin. The Catechism is clear on that

Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. A human being must always

But that doesn’t seem to be the question in the OP.
BrandonR said:
Hi, I have a question.

If you aren’t sure if something is sinful and you do it anyways, knowing that it could possibly be sinful, does this make it a sin?

It definitely couldn’t be a mortal sin, could it?
Click to expand...
Read this article

If you are not certain whether something is sinful, you have to then make the judgment as to whether it would be a sin given the lack of certainty you have based on any relevant factors, including the moral system – see the article – you judge to be best when dealing with such situations. If after all that you are still anxious, then it’s not going to be a mortal sin; find a good priest and follow his advice.
 
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