Can the Church Teachings Change?

[ProVobis]

No. Since it’s coming up next week (the 15th) and it’s a Holy Day (regardless of weekday) anyway, one of the infallible documents was the declaration that Mary went to heaven.

I believe the official English translation was that she was assumed into heaven. Hence, Assumption.

But then translations aren’t infallible. The Latin is authoritative.

 

[mark_a]

Just earlier today I was talking to an Anglican who guaranteed me that within the next 50-100 years there will be a Pope who allows women priests.

Sounds like an opportunity to make some money with a bet. Any chance you both could still be alive in fifty years to settle up?

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

I believe they actually discussed women
priesthood in Vatican Council II and said
no on that, just to get that out of the way.

Now can Church teaching change? I
think it is more rather that her teach-
ings become clearer, more detailed,
than changed.

I DON’T KNOW SQUAT THOUGH !!! bear in mind.

Back to women and priesthood, I actually think there was this heretical
group of Catholic nuns, you know the radical feminist type. I think they
wanted female priests, and were so excited to hear about the new Pope
Francis, the Jesuit, thinking he would side with them, but to their shock,
he actually rebuked their rebellion and demanded they change ASAP.
I don’t know where to find that story, so if anyone
is familiar with what I’m talking about, post a link
if you can.

 

[Chatter163]

Its understandable why your friends believes what she said. First as an Anglican that’s exactly what they experience all the time - changes to “truth”. Of course real truth doesn’t change, but the Anglican Church does all the time to suit its members. Also, she probably only thinks she knows the Catholic Church. She will probably later bring up something like changes in the way we do Confession (from liturgical to individual auricular) , or that we used to be unable to cremate the dead, or the “doctrine” of the Limbo, or most likely the celibate priesthood. Her confusion is that none of these are doctrines or dogma. They are all simply practices, descriptions or disciplines that do change and have nothing to do with permanence of Gods truth. Other Church doctrines did evolve over time as the Holy Spirit found it time to reveal. But nothing was reversed or completely redefined. She wont be able to find any such doctrine or dogma. But lets see what she comes up with.

Agreed. Having been raised an Anglican, I would say that the above characterizes most Anglicans who follow the media’s standard belief that the Catholic Church is only one or two popes away from changing its teachings. They do not understand that the Church was founded by Our Lord Himself and is thus His divinely-created Bride, with guarantee of truth in faith and morals. But then again, their sect was created by a lustful king with very secular aims. What complicates the matter is that most Anglicans consider themselves catholic to some degree. After all, the argument goes, they have bishops, priests, deacons, sacraments and liturgy, so they think they “understand” these Catholic things. When they come over and experience life inside the Church, they see things quite differently.

There is also a more conservative element that says the above. Unlike the group described above, they do not desire to see such changes. But they were so deeply hurt when it happened within TEC or ACC, or C of E, that they angrily insist that the same will eventually happen to the Catholic Church. After all, they reason, Catholics got altar girls, EMHC, vernacular liturgy, etc. Sad thoughts.

 

[ClemtheCatholic]

Wikipedia: The Catholic Church declared in the Fourth Lateran Council that: “There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation”, a statement of what is known as the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. The Church is further described in the papal encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi as the "Mystical Body of Christ

I don’t think Wiki is making this up… So is the quoted statement an infallible one?

 

[McCall1981]

Agreed. Having been raised an Anglican, I would say that the above characterizes most Anglicans who follow the media’s standard belief that the Catholic Church is only one or two popes away from changing its teachings. They do not understand that the Church was founded by Our Lord Himself and is thus His divinely-created Bride, with guarantee of truth in faith and morals. But then again, their sect was created by a lustful king with very secular aims. What complicates the matter is that most Anglicans consider themselves catholic to some degree. After all, the argument goes, they have bishops, priests, deacons, sacraments and liturgy, so they think they “understand” these Catholic things. When they come over and experience life inside the Church, they see things quite differently.

There is also a more conservative element that says the above. Unlike the group described above, they do not desire to see such changes. But they were so deeply hurt when it happened within TEC or ACC, or C of E, that they angrily insist that the same will eventually happen to the Catholic Church. After all, they reason, Catholics got altar girls, EMHC, vernacular liturgy, etc. Sad thoughts.

I dont blame them for feeling that way. I cant imagine how hurt and lost I would feel if that happened to me

 

[ivdaeorum]

The Church cannot change its doctrines for these are revealed to us from Jesus and are handed down to us from his disciples. The only thing that can change are its disciplines and its governance, for example it was only in the 10th century that priests were required to be celibate, to take communion before Vatican 2 you would have had to fast with no water or food from midnight while now the requirement it 1 hour. These are only but a couple that deal with the Churches disciplines of the years.

 

[Chatter163]

I dont blame them for feeling that way. I cant imagine how hurt and lost I would feel if that happened to me

When it happened to me, it opened my eyes and I became a Catholic. Decades later, I have never regretted it, because I became part of the One True Church .

 

[JerryZ]

Wikipedia: The Catholic Church declared in the Fourth Lateran Council that: “There is one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which there is absolutely no salvation”, a statement of what is known as the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. The Church is further described in the papal encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi as the "Mystical Body of Christ

I don’t think Wiki is making this up… So is the quoted statement an infallible one?

Actually it is it was affirmed in V2
Also Pope JPII expanded on this as well as Pope Benedict XVI

Peace

 

[otjm]

Thanks. But then how can I learn what stuff through the ages has or has not been infallible?

Ludwig Ott.

 

[otjm]

Sorry, that was a bit terse.

Ludwig Ott - Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

Given that it is written somewhat to a graduate level of understanding, it may be slow slugging.

Keep in mind also that doctrine does not change, but it does become nuanced as the Church meditates further on Scripture and Tradition.

 

[ProVobis]

The Church cannot change its doctrines for these are revealed to us from Jesus and are handed down to us from his disciples.

I believe you’re referring to the Deposit of Faith. Can’t these doctrines also be defined in councils or by the Pope?

 

[ivdaeorum]

The Doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposits of faith and so cannot be changed. The primary duty of the Pope is to guard and protect the deposits of faith and has the right to clarify and present but never change that which has been given by our Lord Jesus Christ. A good document regarding this is “Fidei Depositum”, a apostolic constitution by Bl pope John Paul ll.

 

[ClemtheCatholic]

Actually it is it was affirmed in V2
Also Pope JPII expanded on this as well as Pope Benedict XVI

Peace

But there is salvation outside the Church (like for those who are ignorant)!

 

[godisgood77]

Church doctrine has never, and cannot, be changed. Only Church disciplines can be changed. So, for example, they could change Priestly celebacy because that is a discipline. Faith and Morals are doctrine and cannot change so there cannot never be women priests.

I’m not advocating for women priests, but I do not see how the issue is a question faith and morals? Can you explain?