Can the Orthodox (EO or OO) have apparitions?

[Pope_Noah_I]

I’ve been reading about supposed apparitions appearing to Orthodox Christians in Georgia and Cairo, Eastern and Oriental respectively, and, I’ve been wondering, can the Orthodox get apparitions too? Why would Our Lady appear to schismatics?

 

[Monica4316]

I think that they can, because they honour her too…

maybe Mary would one day lead the Orthodox to unity with the Catholic Church

 

[dzheremi]

Why wouldn’t they? Mary is not the exclusive property of the Roman Catholic Church and her Eastern compatriots.

 

[Julian0404]

As a catholic you may attend an Orthodox service if you cannot get to a Catholic service. The Orthodox is acknowledged to have the Apostolic succession, so their priest still have the Holy Orders and can conscecrate a valid Eucharist in their Mass. I have attended one Orthodox service in Georgia and it was very moving and beautiful.
Therefore, with apostolic succession and the true presence, why wouldn’t the Holy Mother visit them?
The sole issue of the Holy See does not preclude the valid sacrament.

 

[peary1]

I’ve been reading about supposed apparitions appearing to Orthodox Christians in Georgia and Cairo, Eastern and Oriental respectively, and, I’ve been wondering, can the Orthodox get apparitions too? Why would Our Lady appear to schismatics?

The orthodox churches are still part of the Catholic Church. They have legitimate sacraments and they also share in the works of the whole mystical Body of Christ. Because of this, there is no reason as to why they could not also share in Mary’s spiritual maternity, as she is Mother of the Church, both east and west. Orthodox churches have had apparitions as long as the western Catholic church has experienced them. Each are respective of their own traditions.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\I’ve been reading about supposed apparitions appearing to Orthodox Christians in Georgia and Cairo, Eastern and Oriental respectively, and, I’ve been wondering, can the Orthodox get apparitions too? Why would Our Lady appear to schismatics?\

**I’ve often wondered that same thing myself.

Why would the Theotokos appear so frequently to Latins?

Now think about how nasty what you said sounded!

Unlike you, I’m not going to presume to say who the Theotokos may and may not go see and associate with.**

 

[Hesychios]

… Why would Our Lady appear to schismatics?

Just curious, do you think that for some reason she should not?

I suppose the danger here is that, if people think she should only appear to one church as a sign of that church’s validity, no one knows which of the following is right:

• Your church’s apparitions are true, the other false
• The other church’s aparitions are true, your church’s are false
• Both are true
• Both are false

Looks like a whole can of worms, better to not go there.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

Orthodox can have apparitions - of the devil. Who says any of this is the Blessed Mother? Many doctors of the Church, specifically St. Alphonsus Ligouri, says that God does not allow REAL miracles outside of the Catholic Church. To do such would be to validate that religion.

Unless the Blessed Virgin is appearing to the Orthodox and exhorting them to repent of their schism I would say it’s not the Blessed Virgin but the devil sealing them in their ways by a false validation.

The posts above imply that one church is as good as another. Syncretism.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

The orthodox churches are still part of the Catholic Church. They have legitimate sacraments and they also share in the works of the whole mystical Body of Christ. Because of this, there is no reason as to why they could not also share in Mary’s spiritual maternity, as she is Mother of the Church, both east and west. Orthodox churches have had apparitions as long as the western Catholic church has experienced them. Each are respective of their own traditions.

There’s only ONE Church - the Catholic Church. Schism is one of the three sins that cuts someone off from the true Church - schism, heresy and apostasy. Schismatics are not in the Church but outside of it.

 

[Tradycja]

I’ve been reading about supposed apparitions appearing to Orthodox Christians in Georgia and Cairo, Eastern and Oriental respectively, and, I’ve been wondering, can the Orthodox get apparitions too? Why would Our Lady appear to schismatics?

Even approved Catholic apparitions are not points of Dogma that bind. There are even many false apparitions in the Catholic Church, so what can be said outside of it?

There may be some Orthodox Christians that are in good faith because they were baptized as children in those churches and they have never embraced heresy or schism. In this case they ARE Catholics so perhaps the apparitions are genuine. At the same time we should be careful about apparitions of this sort. I don’t see why the Blessed Mother wouldn’t include in these messages an exhortation to reunite with Rome.

I always thought that the Blessed Mother appears in weeping icons because she is weeping that the Orthodox do not return to unity with the Pope of Rome. That’s my interpretation anyway.

Fr. Adrian Fortescue, PhD. DD., states: "[The Eastern Schism] is not only the greatest, it is also the most superfluous evil in Christendom.“1 This twofold evil is first the greatest, because it is one of the main reasons that Christian souls go to Hell, and it is the most superfluous because only a small concession has to be made by the Orthodox to once again become part of the One True Church, and put themselves back on the road to salvation.”

 

[bpbasilphx]

Orthodox can have apparitions - of the devil. Who says any of this is the Blessed Mother? Many doctors of the Church, specifically St. Alphonsus Ligouri, says that God does not allow REAL miracles outside of the Catholic Church. To do such would be to validate that religion.

Unless the Blessed Virgin is appearing to the Orthodox and exhorting them to repent of their schism I would say it’s not the Blessed Virgin but the devil sealing them in their ways by a false validation.

Therefore, it follows that the visions of the Theotokos among Roman Catholics are counterfeits.

Because the true Theotokos would urge Latins to abjure their schisms and return.

See? This argument works both ways.

 

[Tradycja]

Therefore, it follows that the visions of the Theotokos among Roman Catholics are counterfeits.
Because the true Theotokos would urge Latins to abjure their schisms and return.
See? This argument works both ways.

Many traditionalist Orthodox say that Catholic apparitions are false and this ***would ***logically follow IF the Orthodox Church were the true Church. These people are in error, but at least amidst their error they are being more logical than indifferentists.

At least they accept the principle of non-contradiction:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_contradiction

It seems to me that you accept a position that either 1) there is no way of knowing whether the Orthodox Church or the Catholic Church are the True Church OR 2) You believe that they are both equally the true Church. Both of these positions are illogical.

 

[peary1]

Orthodox can have apparitions - of the devil. Who says any of this is the Blessed Mother? Many doctors of the Church, specifically St. Alphonsus Ligouri, says that God does not allow REAL miracles outside of the Catholic Church. To do such would be to validate that religion.

Unless the Blessed Virgin is appearing to the Orthodox and exhorting them to repent of their schism I would say it’s not the Blessed Virgin but the devil sealing them in their ways by a false validation.

The posts above imply that one church is as good as another. Syncretism.

You are being way over the bank on this one. Of course the orthodox churches have apparitions - they’ve had them as long as the western church has had them, and even when the Church was united. To say that the apparitions of the Orthodox are of the devil is just insane. And the fact is, God DOES allow REAL MIRACLES outside of the Catholic Church. Remember that even our separated brethren, through valid Baptism unites them to the Body of Christ, though incomplete. What you are saying is also against salvation is understood by the Church. Go read Vatican II document Lumen Gentium. It has nothing to do with one ecclesial sect being as good as another. It means that the Spirit can move wherever He wills. To me, a valid Baptism in an individual reveals that He is present to them.

 

[Harpazo]

Many traditionalist Orthodox say that Catholic apparitions are false and this ***would ***logically follow IF the Orthodox Church were the true Church. These people are in error, but at least amidst their error they are being more logical than indifferentists.

At least they accept the principle of non-contradiction:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_contradiction

It seems to me that you accept a position that either 1) there is no way of knowing whether the Orthodox Church or the Catholic Church are the True Church OR 2) You believe that they are both equally the true Church. Both of these positions are illogical.

:banghead:

Your anti-Orthodoxy is growing tiresome.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[ridsilad]

Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\Many traditionalist Orthodox say that Catholic apparitions are false and this would logically follow IF the Orthodox Church were the true Church.\

**You mean you don’t think that Holy Orthodoxy IS the true Church?

But she IS.**

 

[Hesychios]

Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.

People say a lot of silly things. As it is, a little knowledge is dangerous … isn’t that so?

So people become skeptics first, then are full of ridicule later.

The fact is there are a lot of parallel ideas running through ancient religions (clearly a result of similar cultures), and a study of systematic theology would confirm this, but Apostolic Christianity derives from the Judaism of Jesus Christ.

One problem we have to deal with is those who will interpret with their own preconceived notions what is perceived as supernatural phenomena and graft them into their religion. Some claims for the BVM we see here in the religion forums are clearly over the top, and that undermines the credibility of the church. No surprise then, that people start to become vocal skeptics and critics.

For example, we declare the Holy Theotokos (the Blessed Virgin to you Latin Catholics) “Queen of Heaven”, and some people actually believe that this confers some special authority, I have even read claims that people think she is “perfect”. This kind of thinking is unsupportable and dangerous to assert.

Excessiveness in these things is actually damaging to the church, it causes many to fall away as incredulous, and some to actually become enemies of the Gospel Truth.

 

[Hesychios]

Today, while I was in art, some guys at my table, who are very anti-religious, started talking about how Christianity apparently has roots in all these other religions and how Jesus is a “copy” of “sun gods” from other religions, such as in Egyptology. (According to them, this sun god called Horus was born of a virgin, was crucified, etc. Whatever.

People say a lot of silly things. As it is, a little knowledge is dangerous … isn’t that so? That goes for people within the church as well as people outside.

The fact is (referring to the thoughts of these very anti-religious characters) there are a lot of parallel ideas running through ancient religions (clearly a result of similar cultures), and a study of systematic theology would confirm this, but Apostolic Christianity derives from the Judaism of Jesus Christ, a Rabbi himself in His incarnation.

One problem we have to deal with in our own house today is those who will interpret with their own preconceived notions what is perceived as supernatural phenomena and graft them into their (or “our”) religion. Some claims for the BVM we see here in the religion forums are clearly over the top, and that undermines the credibility of the church. No surprise then, that people start to become vocal skeptics and critics.

For example, some think that their church has an exclusive lock on apparitions, clearly a manifestation of pride, and a great sin. Then we declare the Holy Theotokos (the Blessed Virgin to you Latin Catholics) “Queen of Heaven”, and some people actually believe that this confers some unique authority, I have even read claims that people think she is “perfect”. This kind of thinking is unsupportable and dangerous to assert.

Observing this, and sometimes shocked, some people become skeptics first, then are full of ridicule later. They become then open to all kinds of lies, because the angel of light has made his way into their hearts.

Excessiveness in these folk beliefs is actually damaging to the church, it causes many to fall away incredulous, and some (like your classmates) to actually become enemies of the Gospel Truth.