Can there be female deacons?

[Markus2007]

Ar the end of the document from the ** International Theological Commission** From the Diakonia of Christ to the Diakonia of the Apostles* it is stated:

1. The unity of the sacrament of Holy Orders, in the clear distinction between the ministries of the bishop and the priests on the one hand and the diaconal ministry on the other, is strongly underlined by ecclesial tradition, especially in the teaching of the Magisterium.

In the light of these elements which have been set out in the present historico-theological research document, it pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question."

Do I understand this correctly, there is a possibility that the ordination of deacons is not part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders?

 

[Bookcat]

Do I understand this correctly, there is a possibility that the ordination of deacons is not part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders?

The ordination of deacons is YES part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders

As to what was meant in terms of deaconesses --that is a different question.

The previous line there though can shed some light:

“The deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the ancient Church - as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised - were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons”

 

[TimothyH]

JPII didn’t make any infallible statements. The last time one was made was back in 1854, or something like that. Either way, I don’t see women becoming deacons. I, for one, have no urge that direction. Maybe some women do, but like with everything else (even with men) their motivation needs to be checked. With both men and women we need to make sure that it’s an authentic call and not from a “power hungry” push.

You are thinking about dogmas. Blessed John Paul II didn’t define any dogmas.

But Blessed John Paul II made many statements as the Vicar of Christ who sits on the Chair of Peter. He wrote many encyclicals as the Pope in commuion with the Bishops of the Church.

-Tim-

 

[Bookcat]

And of course this line sums it up:

“In the light of these elements which have been set out in the present historico-theological research document, it pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.”

 

[Markus2007]

The ordination of deacons is YES part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders

As to what was meant in terms of deaconesses --that is a different question.

The previous line there though can shed some light:

“The deaconesses mentioned in the tradition of the ancient Church - as evidenced by the rite of institution and the functions they exercised - were not purely and simply equivalent to the deacons”

Yes I understand this, thank you. But what is meant with the line “In the light of these elements which have been set out in the present historico-theological research document, it pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.” What needs to be pronounced authoritatively?

 

[Bookcat]

You are thinking about dogmas. Blessed John Paul II didn’t define any dogmas.

But Blessed John Paul II made many statements as the Vicar of Christ who sits on the Chair of Peter. He wrote many encyclicals as the Pope in commuion with the Bishops of the Church.

-Tim-

Such are not “infallible statements” per se. Nor are encyclicals per se infallible …

But in the case of the document on the question of the ordination of women to the Priesthood – it was declaring that such was infallible via the ordinary and universal Magisterium (see the document from CDF I linked up above somewhat).

 

[Bookcat]

Yes I understand this, thank you. But what is meant with the line “In the light of these elements which have been set out in the present historico-theological research document, it pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.” What needs to be pronounced authoritatively?

The whole matter of deaconesses.

Such could involve – if they are to be again and what the nature of “deaconesses” is and what their vocation in the Church would be etc

 

[Bookcat]

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was NOT an exercise of ex cathedra infallibility.

It is infallible via the universal ordinary Magisterium.

Bl. Pope John Paul II was not defining it – he was drawing attention to the fact that the Church cannot ordain women to the Ministerial Priesthood.

He was not formally defining it – but rather formally reaffirming that such is the case --formally declaring that such is the case.

(And yes such was referring to the reality (the infallible teaching) that the Church is not able to confer Priestly ordination on women.)

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith responded to a dubium regarding Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19951028_dubium-ordinatio-sac_en.html

 

[TimothyH]

Because they are excluded via eastern and western canon law.

Dogmatically, there is no exclusion on the one hand, and strong historical evidence for it on the other.

It is not just a matter of canon law.

The Church herself says that she has no power nor any authority to ordain women. Women cannot be deacons because women cannot recieve the sacrament of Holy Orders.

The word deacon literally means servant. There were “Deaconesses” in the early Church but these were not ordained into the order of the diaconate. They were not deacons as we know them today. They did not recieve the sacrament of Holy Orders, they were not ordained as described in Acts.

Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word." And what they said pleased the whole multitude, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Proch’orus, and Nica’nor, and Ti’mon, and Par’menas, and Nicola’us, a proselyte of Antioch. These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them. (Acts 6:3-6)

Acts 6 is the scriptural basis for the diaconate. The deaconesses did not undergo the sacrament of Holy Orders.

The Church acknowledges that it has no authority or power to ordain women.

-Tim-

 

[Bookcat]

The Church acknowledges that it has no authority or power to ordain women.

-Tim-

To the Priesthood…

Blessed Pope John Paul II was addressing in that document what the Church teaches regarding the possibility of ordaining women to the Priesthood.

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

 

[Markus2007]

To the Priesthood…

Blessed Pope John Paul II was addressing in that document what the Church teaches regarding the possibility of ordaining women to the Priesthood.

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

This is what I asked earlier. Is there a difference between the terms “priestly ordination” and “holy orders”? My native language is German and there is no difference, both the term for the sacrament and the term used in the title (and text) of the encyclical is “Priesterweihe” (which literally means priestly ordination).

 

[pablope]

Hi,

I recently had a discussion with an eastern-orthodox friend of mine who told me that they have female deacons in their church. Currently, women can not be ordained as deacons in the Catholic Church. Is it possible that this might change in the future, or is this not possible due to the infallible declaration of ordinatio sacerdotalis by John Paul II?

My understanding was that the ordination of deacons is part of the sacrament of holy orders, which is reserved for men only (which as I said was infallible affirmed by JPII in ordinatio saceratotalis). However, my friend pointed out to me that there was at the very least one female deacon in Church history, namely Olympias of Constantinople (also known as Olympias the deaconess, she is a canonized saint in the Catholic Church as well as the eastern-orthodox). How can this be?

Also, my friend claimed that Phoebe from St. Paul’s letter the the romans served as a deaconess.

Any information regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

The women deacons in the early church were not deacons as you know them today. They were made deacons to help female converts, and did not have duties as you know deacons today (courtesy of CA Live).

Ask your friend what is the function of their female deacons.

 

[Bookcat]

This is what I asked earlier. Is there a difference between the terms “priestly ordination” and “holy orders”? My native language is German and there is no difference, both the term for the sacrament and the term used in the title (and text) of the encyclical is “Priesterweihe” (which literally means priestly ordination).

Yes.

The document is referring to the ordination to the Priesthood not being possible for women.

Often “Holy Orders” gets used in more in terms of the Priesthood. But the deaconate is part of Holy Orders (as is the Order of Bishop).

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm#I

 

[Lapey]

This is what I asked earlier. Is there a difference between the terms “priestly ordination” and “holy orders”? My native language is German and there is no difference, both the term for the sacrament and the term used in the title (and text) of the encyclical is “Priesterweihe” (which literally means priestly ordination).

There is only one sacrament of Holy Orders. Women do not receive this sacrament. It’s just that simple. There is only one term for ordination.

A deacon is ordained with the intent of the bishop to ordain him a deacon, of the ministry of Christ the Servant. A priest is ordained by the bishop with the intent to ordain a priest, of the ministry of Christ the High Priest.

Both ordained to the ministry of Christ with two totally separate roles, both distinct and separate.

 

[capablanca911]

R_C,

First let me say that I appreciate your very thorough reply.

"Similarly, in regard to the deaconesses, as with all who are enrolled in the register, the same procedure is to be observed. We have made mention of the deaconesses, who have been enrolled in this position, although, not having been in any way ordained, they are certainly to be numbered among the laity. "

There are two ways to interpret that canon as noted by the ITC in footnote 65 that I linked earlier. One proves your position;** the other interpretation proves mine**. So Nicea is a wash.

“Deaconesses are certainly not to be ordained, and if there are some, they must bow their head under the blessing given to the people.” 1 Orange was a local council to set a rule in France. You’ll notice that it is** already ordained deaconesses that are** to ‘bow their head’ to the people’s benediction. There must be ordinations of deaconesses if ordination of deaconesses is ordered to stop in Gaul.

Let’s move the ellipses around in your St. Epiphanius quote:

St. Epiphanius, “Against Heresies” 79 3-4:

 "We come to the New Testament. If women were ordained to be
 priests for God, or to do anything canonical in the church, it
 should rather have been given to Mary in the New Testament....
 But it was decided differently. She was not even entrusted with
 baptizing. [after mentioning successions of apostles and
 priests] but nowhere was a woman established among them. There
 were four daughters of the evangelist Philip, who were
 prophetesses, but not priests. ....*Although there is an **order of
 deaconesses** in the Church, yet they are not appointed to
 function as priests *or for any administration of this kind, but
 so that provision may be made for the propriety of the female
 sex...." [at baptism etc.] Whence comes the recent myth? Whence
 comes the pride of women, or rather, the woman's insanity?

Clearly he is affirms there is an “order” of deaconesses in the Church, just that they have no **priestly **function.

Re: Nimes Canon 2, “levitical ministry” clues us in that ordaining female *priests *is the subject being criticized.

Re: Paris, I would reply that serving at the altar is simply not a *requirement *to be ordained to the office of the diaconate (though it’s a norm for male deacons) Again from ITC:

“In eighth-century Byzantium, the bishop still imposed his hands on a deaconess, and conferred on her the orarion or stole (both ends of which were worn at the front, one over the other); he gave her the chalice, which she placed on the altar without giving communion to anyone. Deaconesses were ordained in the course of the Eucharistic liturgy, in the sanctuary, like deacons.70 Despite the similarities between the rites of ordination, deaconesses did not have access to the altar or to any liturgical ministry.”

Re:, "…A deaconess does not bless, but neither does she perform anything else that is done by presbyters and deacons …", let’s open that quote up some more:

A deacon does not bless, does not give the blessing, but receives it from the bishop and presbyter: he does not baptize, he does not offer; but when a bishop or presbyter has offered, he distributes to the people, not as a priest, but as one that ministers to the priests. But it is not lawful for any one of the other clergy to do the work of a deacon. A deaconess does not bless, nor perform anything belonging to the office of presbyters or deacons, but only is to keep the doors, and to minister to the presbyters in the baptizing of women, on account of decency.

So to summarize this post and others:

1. There was an “office” of the “diaconate” that a female could be “ordained” to, during the Liturgy, at the altar, where she was given the *orarion *stole.
2. She could assist at female baptisms and deliver communion to the sick.
3. She could **not **serve at the altar like a deacon does, or other duties reserved to deacons.

Point 1 addresses the OP’s question. Point 3 doesn’t invalidate Point 1.

 

[Bookcat]

The CCC also states:

1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68

66 CIC, can. 1024.
67 Cf. Mk 3:14-19; Lk 6:12-16; 1 Tim 3:1-13; 2 Tim 1:6; Titus 1:5-9; St. Clement of Rome, Ad Cor. 42,4; 44,3G 1,292-293; 300.
68 Cf. John Paul II, MD 26-27; CDF, declaration, Inter insigniores: AAS 69 (1977) 98-116.

The first part refers to Canon Law. It certainly applies too to the deaconate.

I think the last line there is particularly referring to ordination to the Priesthood (see the documents it references and the discussing just above of the Priesthood). In any case as the Work of the International Theological Commission noted:

“it pertains to the ministry of discernment which the Lord established in his Church to pronounce authoritatively on this question.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/co…conate_en.html

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFINSIG.HTM
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1988/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

 

[Bookcat]

“… the Apostle mentions a certain “Phoebe”, described as “a deaconess of the Church at Cenchreae”, the port town east of Corinth (Rom 16: 1-2). Although at that time the title had not yet acquired a specific ministerial value of a hierarchical kind, it expresses a true and proper exercise of responsibility on the part of this woman for this Christian community. Paul recommends that she be received cordially and assisted “in whatever she may require”. Then he adds: “for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well”.”

~ Pope Benedict XVI 14 February 2007

 

[aemcpa]

I’m shocked at such poor scholarship.

Of course there can be females ordained to the diaconate.

Constitutiones Apostolorum Book 8"Concerning the Deaconess— The Constitution of Bartholomew.XIX. Concerning a deaconess, I Bartholomew make this constitution: O bishop, you shall lay your hands upon her in the presence of the presbytery, and of the deacons and deaconesses, and shall say:—The Form of Prayer for the Ordination of a Deaconess.XX . O Eternal God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of man and of woman, who replenished with the Spirit Miriam, and Deborah, and Anna, and Huldah; who did not disdain that Your only begotten Son should be born of a woman; who also in the tabernacle of the testimony, and in the temple, ordained women to be keepers of Your holy gates—do Thou now also look down upon this Your servant, who is to be ordained to the office of a deaconess, and grant her Your Holy Spirit, and cleanse her from all filthiness of flesh and spirit, 2 Corinthians 7:1 that she may worthily discharge the work which is committed to her to Your glory, and the praise of Your Christ, with whom glory and adoration be to You and the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen."*

Chalcedon Canon 15"A woman shall not receive the laying on of hands as a deaconess under forty years of age, and then only after searching examination. And if, after she has had hands laid on her and has continued for a time to minister, she shall despise the grace of God and give herself in marriage, she shall be anathematized and the man united to her."D)

Trullo Canon 14:“Let the canon of our holy God-bearing Fathers be confirmed in this particular also; that a presbyter be not ordained before he is thirty years of age, even if he be a very worthy man, but let him be kept back. For our Lord Jesus Christ was baptized and began to teach when he was thirty. In like manner let no deacon be ordained before he is twenty-five, nor a deaconess before she is forty.”

When they are ordained by the laying on of hands, the word used is CHEIROTONIA not Cheirothesia like for the minor orders (conscrated nuns and widows).

“…the bishop still imposed his hands (cheirotonia) on a deaconess, and conferred on her the orarion or stole (both ends of which were worn at the front, one over the other); he gave her the chalice, which she placed on the altar without giving communion to anyone. Deaconesses were ordained in the course of the Eucharistic liturgy, in the sanctuary, like deacons.”

None of this is evidence that women were given the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

 

[aemcpa]

.
So then it seems…there once once and it is definitely possible again in the future to have deaconesses in today’s church? There is no infallible teaching against that?
.

It certainly does seem that way.

 

[aemcpa]

This is what I asked earlier. Is there a difference between the terms “priestly ordination” and “holy orders”? My native language is German and there is no difference, both the term for the sacrament and the term used in the title (and text) of the encyclical is “Priesterweihe” (which literally means priestly ordination).

“Holy orders” comprises the ordinations to the diaconate, priesthood, and episcopate, which are three separate but related ordinations.