Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle?

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Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle? Or if you are openly gay, or openly have those temptations, are you eliminated from being a Catholic priest? And if such a person cannot be a priest but feels they have that calling to live a celibate life, what options does the Church give them?
 
Just as a partial response, why would a priest’s private leanings, if he is celibate, need to be made open and public? He’s celibate, so the question is irrelevant. It would be gratuitous voyeurism to express his sexuality, wouldn’t it?
 
There have been restrictions on homosexual priests since the sex abuse scandals as it was discovered that many of the alleged acts of “pedophilia” as the media described them, were in fact hebephilia and ephebophilia (preference for pubescent and post-pubescent adolescents, specifically boys).
 
Trishie said:
Just as a partial response, why would a priest’s private leanings, if he is celibate, need to be made open and public? He’s celibate, so the question is irrelevant. It would be gratuitous voyeurism to express his sexuality, wouldn’t it?
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I think there is a way in which he could.

Let’s say the priest has always lived in a small community, where everyone knows everyone.

Let’s say, when he was in high school, he was openly gay. Afterwards, however, he took a vow of chastity and celibacy, did all the things a person wanting to be a priest would have to do, and was assigned to his hometown parish, where everyone knows he’s gay.

I would say, yes, he is allowed to be a priest.
 
GR1G1O said:
Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle? Or if you are openly gay, or openly have those temptations, are you eliminated from being a Catholic priest? And if such a person cannot be a priest but feels they have that calling to live a celibate life, what options does the Church give them?
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According to the new policy by the Congregation of Education: On Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders (written in August 2005), homosexual males cannot become priest.
  1. Homosexuality and the Ordained Ministry
From the time of the Second Vatican Council until today, various Documents of the Magisterium, and especially the Catechism of the Catholic Church, have confirmed the teaching of the Church on homosexuality. The Catechism distinguishes between homosexual acts and homosexual tendencies.

Regarding acts, it teaches that Sacred Scripture presents them as grave sins. The Tradition has constantly considered them as intrinsically immoral and contrary to the natural law. Consequently, under no circumstance can they be approved.

Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God’s will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter[8].

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”[10].

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.

To see the full document read: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html
 
presidentjlh said:
I think there is a way in which he could.

Let’s say the priest has always lived in a small community, where everyone knows everyone.

Let’s say, when he was in high school, he was openly gay. Afterwards, however, he took a vow of chastity and celibacy, did all the things a person wanting to be a priest would have to do, and was assigned to his hometown parish, where everyone knows he’s gay.

I would say, yes, he is allowed to be a priest.
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Actually he cannot become a priest. Persons with same sex attraction cannot even though he desires a celibate life, new policies from the Vatican forbids it.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_optatam-totius_en.html

The Vatican also states that the sex scandal in the U.S. and Europe are homosexual issue. (See Article: lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/sep/09092910.html). However, that is a another matter.

"Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90 per cent belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17," said Tomasi. His statement is backed up by a report commissioned by the US bishops that found that in the overwhelming majority of cases the clergy involved were homosexuals, with 81 percent of victims being adolescent males.
 
I must have accidentally glanced over that part of the Catechism when I was reading it.

Since it is a decree of the Church, I cannot argue against it.
 
In 1961, the Church also forbids homosexual to be ordained. The document is called Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders (S. C. Rel., 2 Feb., 1961).
[Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers.
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  1. Very special investigation is needed for those students who, although they have hitherto been free of formal sins against chastity, nevertheless suffer from morbid or abnormal sexuality, especially sexual hyperesthesia or an erotic bent of nature, to whom religious celibacy would be a continual act of heroism and a trying martyrdom. For chastity, in so far as it implies abstinence from sexual pleasure, not only becomes very difficult for many people but the very state of celibacy and the consequent loneliness and separation from one’s family becomes so difficult for certain individuals gifted with excessive sensitivity and tenderness, that they are not fit subjects for the religious life. This question should perhaps receive more careful attention from novice masters and superiors of scholasticates than from confessors since such natural tendencies do not come out so clearly in confession as in the common life and daily contact.
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rcf.org/docs/1961Text.html

papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm
[/quote]
 
It is very important to understand that the Church is not speaking about people who simply have same-sex attractions. She’s speaking about those who have several serious impairments:
  1. Actively gay
  2. Embrace or support the gay lifestyle/culture
  3. Deep seated homosexual tendencies (this means more than same-sex attractions. This is a person who identifies himself or herself as gay). When this becomes your identity, then there is a very serious problem here. Heterosexuals do not identify themselves as heterosexuals. They identify themselves as males and females. A person with same-sex attraction must be able to see himself as a whole person, not identify himself by his sexual attraction. Unless he can see himself as a whole person, he cannot relate to members of both genders in a healthy and appropriate way.
  4. Those who struggle to remain chaste. If this is a struggle for the individual, he or she is not a good candidate for either the priesthood or the religious life. Everyone struggles with temptations. The Church is not saying that a priest or religious must be someone who never struggles with temptations. That would be unrealistic. The Church is speaking about the person for whom sexual temptation are a cross.
As to the publicity of the attraction there is something to be considered here. Someone posted it above. If one is celibate and comfortable in one’s celibate state, why should one’s sexual feelings come out into the public forum? Whethere you have same-sex attraction or opposite-sex attractions, this is not a topic for public discussion.

The OP also asked about someone who had come out earlier in life and now wants to become a priest or a brother. That person is disqualified. The very act of coming out is a statement that says to the world that I embrace my sexual attractions, am proud of it, and I don’t care what the world thinks. Otherwise, the person would have exercised some discretion. The act of coming out reveals a deep seated homosexual orientation as well as some difficulties with discretion. Such a person is not a good candidate for either priesthood or religious life.

The Church still loves this person and wants him or her to remain a part of the Church. But the person has identified himself according to his sexual attractions, rather than as a whole man or whole woman. That’s the whole problem with the gay movement. When you identify yourself as gay, you’re making a public display of your sexuality as if that were the defining trait in your humanity and you’re throwing off the balance in your life, because you’re much more than just a sexual being. This is what the Church calls “deep seated”. It becomes an identity, rather than a sexual attraction. I explain it as a sexual orientation that is blown out of proportion.

It’s a very complex issue and there is no perfect answer. Even the guidelines that the Church provides for religious orders and diocesan seminaries, she’s very careful to point out that novice masters for religious and formators of seminarians must really watch what happens in the day to day life in community. In the end, there is not perfect answer that fits every individual. The same struggles with sexuality can be found in heterosexuals. What a formator is looking at is whether there is a struggle. If there is, then the perosn is not suited for this life or for the priesthood, unless the struggle disappears for at least three years, I believe is the number.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
‘All passions are dishonorable, for the soul is even more prejudiced and degraded by sin than is the body by disease; but the worst of all passions is lust between men. . . when God abandons a man, everything is turned upside down! Therefore, not only are their passions satanic, but their lives are diabolic. A murderer only separates the soul from the body, whereas these destroy the soul inside the body. . . There is nothing, absolutely nothing more mad or damaging than this perversity.’

St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Father and Doctor of the Church

‘This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything . . . Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is.’

St. Bernardine of Siena
 
Shin said:
‘This vice disturbs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes [men] pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything . . . Someone who lived practicing the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than anyone else, because this is the worst sin that there is.’

St. Bernardine of Siena
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I think we need to specify between individuals who have homosexual tendencies but do not act on them and those that do engage in the act of sodomy. One can have homosexual tendencies all their life, but live a perfectly chaste life still.
 
presidentjlh said:
I think we need to specify between individuals who have homosexual tendencies but do not act on them and those that do engage in the act of sodomy. One can have homosexual tendencies all their life, but live a perfectly chaste life still.
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That’s what we would refer to as same-sex attractions, unless the person has embraced homosexuality as an identifier for himself.

There is something that is very important here. Even though St. John C. and St. Bernardine write very strongly about active homosexual behavior, in other writings they are equally strong on the mercy of God, the power of contrition and confession.

We have to be very careful with these quotes out of context, because some people may read into them that they are destined for hell, because they have committed this sin. That’s not what these great saints are saying. They are speaking to the unrepentant sinner. Both of them present very strong arguments for the salvation of the repentant sinner, even if the person falls over and over, but gets up and tries again.

St. John C. and St. Bernardine were very tough on their condemnation of sin, but also very encouraging to those who struggle, but continue to try. They’re not out to let you hang to dry because you fell. Both are very compassionate men and both encourage that all sinners, not just homosexuals, continue to try and never give up trying, even if they can’t get it perfect. Both of these great men were so certain of God’s love and mercy that is available just by asking for it, like the good thief on the cross who simply says, “Remember me.” They also share with us their faith in God desire to save us no matter how serious our sin. All we have to do is to desire to be saved and keep trying.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
It’s good to make certain everyone knows while there’s life there’s hope for repentance and mercy.

It’s also good that people realize how deadly serious and evil certain sins are, so they do not treat them lightly nor mistake words about ‘acceptance’ to mean more than they ever should.

Certain behaviors are never socially acceptable, nor should ever be considered so.

Certain desires can never be tolerated.

Or to put it another way, do not love the sin in the sinner, and do not forget to hate the sin as well as love the sinner.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Actually he cannot become a priest. Persons with same sex attraction cannot even though he desires a celibate life, new policies from the Vatican forbids it.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_optatam-totius_en.html

Really? I just clicked the link, looked at the title and did a word search for “homosexual.” I have firefox, so it automatically starts searching after a few letters are typed and I didn’t even get to “homos” until it told me that homosexuality isn’t mentioned.

I also checked for chastity and it appears only once in an exhortation to make sure that priests are to be warned about the dangers of their chastity in modern society. The same for “celibate” which appears twice. Both words only appear in section 10.

Specifically where are men with any degree of same-sex attractions legally forbidden from pursuing a vocation in holy orders?
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Mannyfit75 said:
Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God’s will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter[8].

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”[10].

Such persons, in fact, find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women. One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies.
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This bother me a little bit.

There are two priests… one who had multiple sexual (non homosexual) partners when he was growing up. The other one had homosexual tendencies that he never fulfilled and never committed an act with someone of the same sex. The first one will be able to approach priesthood swearing celibacy and the other one who has promise to live a celibate life because of his tendencies can’t become a priest if that’s his desire?

Why do we have to believe the promiscuous one and not the one that has been celibate? it doesn’t’ make sense. Because he has homosexual tendencies doesn’t mean that he is going to abuse children.

This is wrong. But again I trust the Holy Mother Church and need not to understand the reasons for these injustices.
 
I think a big problem in this thread is that people don’t mean the same thing when they say homosexual. It appears to me that when the Church uses the term it means someone who is either currently in/pursuing romantic or sexual relationships with members of their same sex, while many people including myself in day to day conversations use homosexual to mean anyone who is attracted exclusively or primarily to members of the same sex as themself, which I believe the Church calls homosexual tendencies. So in my usage of the word Homosexual I would say that yes, a homosexual man could become a priest however by the Church’s definition that same man would have homosexual tendencies.
 
GR1G1O said:
Can there be openly gay priest who maintain a celibate lifestyle? Or if you are openly gay, or openly have those temptations, are you eliminated from being a Catholic priest? And if such a person cannot be a priest but feels they have that calling to live a celibate life, what options does the Church give them?
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that is a contradiction in terms. openly gay (as opposed to someone who has a homosexual orientation) means just that, espousing and participating in that lifestyle with all its ramifications, including the political identification with its advocacy groups. So such a person by definition is celibate as long as he remains unmarried–that is the meaning of the word–but not chaste, in fact the opposite, because he has chosen against chastity, personal and for anyone else who shares his orientation. That is what the other word, gay, means. It is a self-identification adopted by some (not all) homosexuals to describe the manner of life they adopt.

If your question is, instead, can a person with a homosexual orientation aspire to the Catholic priesthood the answer is no, unless that inclination has been conquered through mature psycho-sexual development, and he has been living chastely and continently, and even then only after rigorous discernment.
 
Baer said:
I think a big problem in this thread is that people don’t mean the same thing when they say homosexual. It appears to me that when the Church uses the term it means someone who is either currently in/pursuing romantic or sexual relationships with members of their same sex, while many people including myself in day to day conversations use homosexual to mean anyone who is attracted exclusively or primarily to members of the same sex as themself, which I believe the Church calls homosexual tendencies. So in my usage of the word Homosexual I would say that yes, a homosexual man could become a priest however by the Church’s definition that same man would have homosexual tendencies.
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Based on the contextI think the Church defines it the same way you (and I) do, namely, a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same-sex. Nothing more, nothing less.

Try to think of how people relate to this on a sociological level. People also live in their own culture. I’m not just talking about national culture but the various subcultures that exist in the larger culture in a country. Take the United States, for example. You have regional subcultures (i.e., Northern, Southern, Midwestern, West Coast, East Coast, Southern California (yes, we are unique, deal with it!)) as well as subcultures based on belief or common interests (Trekkers/Trekkies, sports fans, Christians in general (broken down further, i.e., evangelical, fundamentalist, Catholic, “mainline”, etc.), political, etc. These things combine to create unique subcultures that are interesting to look at.

Here on CAF, there is a general culture of Catholicism, but there is also a very, very strong right-wing pull to it as well. Even in areas where politics has absolutely nothing to do with anything, people will still use the commonly used parlance and people in that community understand. That’s where my beef relative to how homosexuality and homosexual persons is discussed.

It appears (and I’m only going based on perception) that people encounter the word “homosexual” and their first thoughts automatically go to the people who go to “gay pride” parades and act like freaks. There are many reasons for this. First, it’s what makes big headlines in news sources that cater to people with a right-wing ideological mindset (which is the predominant political culture here, can’t deny that!): “Homosexuals have parade: children and horses terrorized!!” followed by the worst bad behavior the cameras can find. What is ignored is that that is not all homosexual persons act this way. There are many who live their lives quietly in the Church (and are largely ignored by the Church, too – out of sight, out of mind).

Perhaps it takes people to point out that not every SSA person acts this way, even if they don’t manage to get rid of all the fem traits. I, myself, have diminishing SSA (I’ve actually moved to bisexual (not actively, only in terms of attraction) now than I was just a few months ago…it’s a long and arduous process) and I, fortunately, never really involved myself too much in the “gay lifestyle” of clubbing, bar hopping, etc. and I never obtained those fem traits. I act like most other men around me except I don’t don sports stuff (which I’m cool with – I’m a geek! :D) and I don’t have a woman 😦 (I’d like one, though).
 
puzzleannie said:
that is a contradiction in terms. openly gay (as opposed to someone who has a homosexual orientation) means just that, espousing and participating in that lifestyle with all its ramifications, including the political identification with its advocacy groups. So such a person by definition is celibate as long as he remains unmarried–that is the meaning of the word–but not chaste, in fact the opposite, because he has chosen against chastity, personal and for anyone else who shares his orientation. That is what the other word, gay, means. It is a self-identification adopted by some (not all) homosexuals to describe the manner of life they adopt.

If your question is, instead, can a person with a homosexual orientation aspire to the Catholic priesthood the answer is no, unless that inclination has been conquered through mature psycho-sexual development, and he has been living chastely and continently, and even then only after rigorous discernment.
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We are in agreement. 👍

I must add, I admire your clear-headed thinking on the subject. You understand the nuances of Church teaching and can explain them logically and simply. An example to all.
 
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