Can They Recieve?

[Disciple_of_God]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

 

[kleary]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

The circumstances concering their previous marriages would determine whether or not an annulment would be needed and their current marriage blessed. If on the face of things (I.E. they both married a Catholic in a invalid civil ceremony the first time around) then that marriage is seen as invalid and no annulment is needed.

Both of their first marriages must be invalid on the face of it (my friend, a Catholic got married via justice of the peace the first time around and just recently got re-married in a Catholic Church- no annulment needed).

If indeed that is the case, then their existing marriage, is indeed valid and they can receive Holy Communion after they have completed RCIA but not before completion of RCIA.

Ken

 

[mgy100]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

I would leave that up to the priest and the bishop decide.

 

[thistle]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

Even if they have not obtained annulments they can confess, live a life of continence (i.e. a non-sexual relationship), then they can receive Communion.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

Your post is a bit hard to understand the details. Any Baptized person who has been Married and divorced cannot Marry again without the first Marriage being investigated and determined to be invalid. If they do they are in an “Irregular” or invalid Marriage situation. They cannot receive any Sacraments if they are Catholic, and cannot become Catholic if they are Baptized in another Christian Community.

You mention “their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage.” They cannot be Baptized if they are already Baptized?

So something does not match here. Either they are Baptized Catholic and their first Marriages are invalid by “Defect of Form”, or they are Baptized non-Catholic and require Annulment processes, or neither were Baptized and have both received the Pauline Privilege. Or some combination of the above.

Until their Marriage situation is resolved in some manner in the Church, they cannot become Catholic or receive ANY Sacraments.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Even if they have not obtained annulments they can confess, live a life of continence (i.e. a non-sexual relationship), then they can receive Communion.

This is not correct except in very rare specific circumstances.

 

[palmas85]

Even if they have not obtained annulments they can confess, live a life of continence (i.e. a non-sexual relationship), then they can receive Communion.

I do believe that you are wrong on this one old man.

 

[thistle]

I do believe that you are wrong on this one old man.

Well then my wife and I must be one of the rare exceptions because that is our situation, and confirmed by the priests in the different countries we’ve lived in.

Please also search AAA where Father Serpa has given the same answer that a couple can live together in a non-sexual relationship, i.e. just like a brother and sister, and after confession they can receive Communion.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Well then my wife and I must be one of the rare exceptions because that is our situation, and confirmed by the priests in the different countries we’ve lived in.

Please also search AAA where Father Serpa has given the same answer that a couple can live together in a non-sexual relationship, i.e. just like a brother and sister, and after confession they can receive Communion.

I believe what you are describing is called the “Internal Forum solution”. Rome has spoken about the abuse of this “option”. Many times it is offered as a solution to a clearly invalid Marriage situation, which is an abuse of it.

 

[thistle]

I believe what you are describing is called the “Internal Forum solution”. Rome has spoken about the abuse of this “option”. Many times it is offered as a solution to a clearly invalid Marriage situation, which is an abuse of it.

I’ve never heard of the Internal Forum solution so I can’t comment on that.
All I can tell you that our situation has been clarified numerous times because I wanted to be absolutely sure. Seven priests in three countries have told us we are okay as long as we live a continent life. That’s good enough for me.

 

[palmas85]

Well then my wife and I must be one of the rare exceptions because that is our situation, and confirmed by the priests in the different countries we’ve lived in.

Please also search AAA where Father Serpa has given the same answer that a couple can live together in a non-sexual relationship, i.e. just like a brother and sister, and after confession they can receive Communion.

Actually if I’m not mistaken old man the conditions for that particular scenario are very specific and are as follows:

1. You are first obliged to repent of your past sin.
2. Next, you are obliged to separate. But for serious reasons, you can remain together if you live in complete abstinence from the acts proper to married couples.
3. You are obliged to receive sacramental absolution in the Sacrament of Penance.
4. You are obliged to receive Holy Communion so as to avoid giving scandal (eg. where your irregular marriage is unknown)

The serious reasons would be along the lines of caring for children or a sick partner for example… Something along those lines. Not just a normal married situation. It isn’t a get out of jail free card or an escape clause of some sort.

So it would appear that except in the very rarest of cases a separation would be in order. Beyond that, I find in quite unlikely that the overwhelming majority of people could live together in complete abstinence of sexual relations.

But then again there are probably a few couples here and there that can do it.

It is easy to see how this particular option is open to abuse however.

 

[puzzleannie]

There is a married couple that I know who have both been divorced and then married each other. They have been married for 20+ years and both have converted to Catholicism. They have been baptized out side the church and are now going through RCIA. Neither one of them will be obtaining an anulment. My question is this, their priest has apparently told them that they can receive all the sacraments, including the body of Christ. The only thing they will not receive is the sacrament of marriage. It was my understanding that you can not receive the body of Christ unless you are you have an annulment. Can someone pleaes help me with this? Thank you.

we assume, since we are not privy to the facts about their current marriage and previous marriage, and since the priest is the one responsible for their pastoral care, investigating and resolving, if necessary, any situation related to marriage, that this has been done. Ours is not to pry into another’s confidential business, and annulment matters are confidential.

 

[drafdog]

Since you have not the exact details of the marital state of the couple or of their intimate relationship, you have no qualification for making any judgment regarding their consciences. If they are receiving Eucharist in good conscience, that is enough and none of us has the right to say them nay.

Matthew

 

[thistle]

Actually if I’m not mistaken old man the conditions for that particular scenario are very specific and are as follows:

1. You are first obliged to repent of your past sin.
2. Next, you are obliged to separate. But for serious reasons, you can remain together if you live in complete abstinence from the acts proper to married couples.
3. You are obliged to receive sacramental absolution in the Sacrament of Penance.
4. You are obliged to receive Holy Communion so as to avoid giving scandal (eg. where your irregular marriage is unknown)

The serious reasons would be along the lines of caring for children or a sick partner for example… Something along those lines. Not just a normal married situation. It isn’t a get out of jail free card or an escape clause of some sort.

So it would appear that except in the very rarest of cases a separation would be in order. Beyond that, I find in quite unlikely that the overwhelming majority of people could live together in complete abstinence of sexual relations.

But then again there are probably a few couples here and there that can do it.

It is easy to see how this particular option is open to abuse however.

Well you are not privy to the details of my situation and speaking generally you are not the one who can say who “qualifies” or not. Picking so called rules out of a book does not make you an expert.
What I would concede, though, is that it might be harder for a young couple to abstain. However with senior citizens cards unfortunately my wife and I can’t be classified as young.

 

[palmas85]

Well you are not privy to the details of my situation and speaking generally you are not the one who can say who “qualifies” or not. Picking so called rules out of a book does not make you an expert.
What I would concede, though, is that it might be harder for a young couple to abstain. However with senior citizens cards unfortunately my wife and I can’t be classified as young.

I just pointed out the rules. I wasn’t speaking to your situation personally. I never said I was an expert, even though I do teach this stuff. I never said who does and does not qualify. Quite true, each case is judged on its own merits. I never said they weren’t. But quite honestly, age is really no barrier to intimate sexual relations either. Marriage is a lot more than sexual relations and granting this type of relief based solely on the ages of the couple really seems to be an abuse.

Sorry but it does and apparently Rome feels the same way.

I say if you qualify for the annulment, get one. If you don’t qualify, don’t get married, because in the eyes of the Church and of God, you still are. A very simple solution and you never have to worry about it.

 

[jkarp]

They cannot be Baptized if they are already Baptized?

It is likely that since their baptisms were performed outside of the Catholic church, they would receive conditional baptisms: "If you were not already baptized, I baptize you . . . "

The rest of the investigation is really situation dependant and only the couple and the priest (or bishop) are qualified to make a decision regarding the validity of any other sacraments.