Can this marriage be annulled?

[miguel]

Yes! You inferred that the decree of nullity process was adversarial!.

Oh brother. Does adversarial have to mean putting on boxing gloves and duking it out? That’s one meaning. There are others. IrishAm said the annulment process is never adversarial. I said it can be if one of the parties opposes the annulment. And I don’t know what I said that’s so unreasonable.

But you are free to disagree.

 

[ohioszo]

Adultery does not, in itself, invalidate the marriage.

I mentioned that I was not quoting canon law. But, as a layperson, one can infer that from a situation like this that someone does not respect what Catholic call the sacramental aspect of marriage which would be damaged by adultery. I have a cousin who forgave her husband a multitude of times, and, I have another cousin who couldn’t forgive one time … and I wish that he had because I loved his wife too as a dear friend. So, do not worry that I do not understand what you are referring to. In the Bible God, and someone else can be more expert at this, adultery is looked on rather badly by most people … sin no more Christ said. If her husband is living with another person and having a sexual relationship with that person he or she is definitely not folllowing Christ with his vows to his wife. You don’t want to call it adultery, fine. We can call anything you wish. I do advocate forgiveness in my prayers, but, I cannot lead by example in forgiveness of a spouse … as I am not married. Sure, forgiving is something we all should do, but, adultery is set apart in people’s minds …

I want to add that I have relation who do not believe in the Church’s annullments. They believe that in someway an anullment is hypocritical as they thoroughly believed in their marriage at the time of the marriage. I don’t know their argument in total, but, for the sake of the children born to that marriage, they may not wish annullments. It is rather silly when an anullment is granted, obviously the children may have suffered from the craziness of perhaps the person seeking the anullment … the self-centeredness involved … but in the original poster’s case, she is young and that differs from many situations that I know of … with very limited knowledge of the circumstances. The families often side with the closest bro or sis, but, often I sincerely care for the person who is being so activally derided as a sinner!

The adage that “it takes two to tango” should be “it takes two to make a marriage” or “it takes two to forgive.”

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Oh brother. Does adversarial have to mean putting on boxing gloves and duking it out? That’s one meaning. There are others. IrishAm said the annulment process is never adversarial. I said it can be if one of the parties opposes the annulment. And I don’t know what I said that’s so unreasonable. That is not what you stated, but even if that’s all you said, because it is rare, very rare, that the decree of nullity is opposed. Most often, the other party couldn’t care less. Because you also wanted her out shopping for a canon lawyer, when she needs to go see her parish priest.

“Adversarial” as defined means dealing with an adversary. And “adversary” means
a person, group, or force that opposes or attacks; opponent; enemy; foe.

But you are free to disagree Oh I do, without your permission.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I want to add that I have relation who do not believe in the Church’s annullments. They believe that in someway an anullment is hypocritical as they thoroughly believed in their marriage at the time of the marriage. However, that’s not up to them to decide, but for a tribunal to decide. I don’t know their argument in total, but, for the sake of the children born to that marriage, they may not wish annullments. That’s a myth. A decree of nullity does not in any way effect the children born of a putative marriage. I am so very tired of pointing that out to people. How about you?

 

[ack]

This is correct. See Canons 1061 and 1137. An annulment does not affect the legitimacy of children in a normal situation.

Also, note that the word “adversarial” does not even appear in Canon Law.

 

[ohioszo]

OutinChgoburbs:
I guess you would say that the children born to a Catholic marriage that was annulled, wouldn’t feel any different about themselves and their faith because they are not made illegitimate by the canonical anullment? What do the children of these situations experience? I don’t know.

 

[chevalier]

This may be too technical a question for this forum, but I was wondering if anyone could answer my question regarding my divorce and anullment possibilities. My husband cheated on me and despite my efforts to keep our marriage together for 2 and a half years, putting us into marriage counseling and having our vows renewed in the church, he still chose to leave me and is now living with the other woman and we are in the process of a divorce. He is not catholic but I am and we were married in the church. We also have 2 children.

I thought I had read before that in order to declare a marriage null, there had to be an existing problem before the marriage ever took place. That is not the case here, he did not meet her until after we were married.

My question is if anyone knows any way in which a marriage can be annulled in this case. I just feel like in this situation I should not be the one punished by the church for the actions of my husband when I tried my best to keep us together and do the right thing. At what point, if any, does the Catholic church realize that I had no choice in the matter and allow me to move on with my life and find another partner without being in mortal sin?

Firstly, your situation does not indicate that there was no problem existing at the moment you were married. His act of cheating and leaving you, as well as other trangressions, may be evidence of simulation of consent or lack of understanding of marriage or inability to carry out the obligations of marriage.

Secondly, if a person is abandoned by the spouse and the marriage is valid, it is not true that the person has no choice but to find another partner. Marriage is till death do us part and there is simply no another partner there.

You can get an annullment because of his unfaithfulness, with adultery, and, because of his disrespect for the sacrament of marriage and your faith.

The reason why such a marriage is null, if it is, is simulation of consent by the guilty party who excludes faithfulness from his intent when marrying. Adultery is only some evidence that such an exclusion took place. Marriage is not void just because a spouse has cheated. Marriage isn’t conditional on never cheating. I am saying this just to clarify, though, and to avoid possible incorrect conclusions.

By the way, Catholicmommy, please contact your priest and consult the tribunal. In some tribunals, some of the judges (or other people, such as advocates, i.e. canon law attorneys) provide free advice. They will be able to address your situation calmly, with all the information they will need and you will be able to provide, and with all the expertise that they have. Also, you need to know that the tribunals don’t leave people without help and there is always someone to assist you with the formalities. They will do what they can to find out about the truth and they will act with an understanding that you are not a professional canon lawyer.

 

[iluvmybabies]

This may be too technical a question for this forum, but I was wondering if anyone could answer my question regarding my divorce and anullment possibilities. My husband cheated on me and despite my efforts to keep our marriage together for 2 and a half years, putting us into marriage counseling and having our vows renewed in the church, he still chose to leave me and is now living with the other woman and we are in the process of a divorce. He is not catholic but I am and we were married in the church. We also have 2 children.

I thought I had read before that in order to declare a marriage null, there had to be an existing problem before the marriage ever took place. That is not the case here, he did not meet her until after we were married.

My question is if anyone knows any way in which a marriage can be annulled in this case. I just feel like in this situation I should not be the one punished by the church for the actions of my husband when I tried my best to keep us together and do the right thing. At what point, if any, does the Catholic church realize that I had no choice in the matter and allow me to move on with my life and find another partner without being in mortal sin?

Yes it is true that a marriage may be annulled if there was a problem previous to the marriage etc but I believe it can also be annulled if a spouse is unfaithful, are in a marriage that endangers a spouse or/and child’s life(ves) and I am sure other things as well…The best thing to do is speak with your priest and let him know your situation, or a tribunal or a nun…They can advise you best!

I am sorry about your situation and difficulty you are going through right now, I do pray and hope that GOD helps you get through this. Good luck and take care!

 

[chevalier]

Yes it is true that a marriage may be annulled if there was a problem previous to the marriage etc but I believe it can also be annulled if a spouse is unfaithful, are in a marriage that endangers a spouse or/and child’s life(ves) and I am sure other things as well…

No, that is not accurate. Those are essentially the grounds for divorce allowed by those Protestant churches which allow it. In our Catholic Church, there is no divorce and the nullity of marriage means that it never has been valid. This is why the proper term “declaration of nullity” should be used, not annulment. Annulment suggests that the marriage is valid but it can be voided. That is not true. Only a marriage which is invalid can be found invalid. A marriage which is valid (and consumated) lasts until death and cannot be invalidated.

Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.

Ratum and consumatum means contracted and consumated, i.e. vows were exchanged and the spouses had sexual intercourse.

This is difficult in theory, but if we take a practical example, it’s easier. Let’s suppose A forced B to say “yes”, B complied in fear. There is no marriage. There is simply no marriage and the declaration affirms that no marriage ever took place. Same if one of the parties simulated consent (pretend he was agreeing). There is no “annulling” anything - there is only finding that there was no marriage.

Now if the marriage is valid, that is, everything is according to the Church’s teaching, there is a marriage. That marriage cannot be somehow made invalid.

 

[iluvmybabies]

No, that is not accurate. Those are essentially the grounds for divorce allowed by those Protestant churches which allow it. In our Catholic Church, there is no divorce and the nullity of marriage means that it never has been valid. This is why the proper term “declaration of nullity” should be used, not annulment. Annulment suggests that the marriage is valid but it can be voided. That is not true. Only a marriage which is invalid can be found invalid. A marriage which is valid (and consumated) lasts until death and cannot be invalidated.

I am very sorry for my wrong information… I thought that if there was enough cause found previous to a marriage it can be annulled??? But I am sorry for the misinformation!

Ratum and consumatum means contracted and consumated, i.e. vows were exchanged and the spouses had sexual intercourse.

This is difficult in theory, but if we take a practical example, it’s easier. Let’s suppose A forced B to say “yes”, B complied in fear. There is no marriage. There is simply no marriage and the declaration affirms that no marriage ever took place. Same if one of the parties simulated consent (pretend he was agreeing). There is no “annulling” anything - there is only finding that there was no marriage.

So then that means if it’s invalid then the tribunal gives a person a certificate of invalid marriage? Not annulment? Because I did get an annulment for my marriage?!

Now if the marriage is valid, that is, everything is according to the Church’s teaching, there is a marriage. That marriage cannot be somehow made invalid.

Ok another question, if the marriage is VALID but the spouse is abusing his/her spouse and/or children, then there is no way a person can get the marriage “invalid” or annulled, they can just get legally divorced and live in sin the rest of their lives?

 

[Shiann]

Ok another question, if the marriage is VALID but the spouse is abusing his/her spouse and/or children, then there is no way a person can get the marriage “invalid” or annulled, they can just get legally divorced and live in sin the rest of their lives?

No, they get a civil divorce to protect self and kids and remain single and celibate to their valid marriage.

 

[iluvmybabies]

No, they get a civil divorce to protect self and kids and remain single and celibate to their valid marriage.

Really… WOW, I didn’t know that people couldn’t get “divorced” and marriage annulled to restart their lives if their spouse was abusive and their or children’s lives were at stake… Ok thank you for letting me know!

 

[babygirl6152]

ummmmm- I think what that poster meant about abusiveness of wife and child is that it still has to be proven to a tribunal that BEFORE THE MARRIAGE took place these behaviors were present even if the wife was not aware.

ALL invalidities with psychological impairments have to trace back to the day of the wedding or before…otherwise the Church believes God gives the graces with God’s help to conquer problems occuring after the marriage- even if the grace given is to separate and live chaste-ly.

 

[Shiann]

Really… WOW, I didn’t know that people couldn’t get “divorced” and marriage annulled to restart their lives if their spouse was abusive and their or children’s lives were at stake… Ok thank you for letting me know!

As was mentioned above, the Church doesn’t give out annulments, they offer “decrees of nullity” or the determination whether the marriage was valid from the very start.

And babygirls comments were right on the money!

 

[chevalier]

Ok another question, if the marriage is VALID but the spouse is abusing his/her spouse and/or children, then there is no way a person can get the marriage “invalid” or annulled, they can just get legally divorced and live in sin the rest of their lives?

Regarding your other questions, “annulment” is the common name of the declaration of nullity. The reason why some people are so tense about “annulment” as I am is because “annulment” suggets the marriage gets invalidated, while in reality the marriage is examined and found either valid or null. What does your own decree say? I don’t think the word “annulment” appears anywhere. My canon law professor would nearly murder students for even accidentally saying “annulment” instead of “declaration of nullity” because of this distinction. Most people think the distinction is trivial, but then many people receive the wrong information and are led to think that “annulment” means a marriage getting voided because the spouse misbehaved. I think the use of the wrong term is part of the reason why people so often get it confused.

As for abuse, abuse of itself is only evidence of something bigger. If a person is unable to control himself and compulsively beats or denigrates his spouse, then obviously that person has problems and it questionable whether that person is able to be married. So if there was a serious problem of such a kind as mental illness of which the abuse is an outward sign, then it is possible that such a person is unable to marry and therefore cannot marry. Canon 1095:

Can. 1095 The following are incapable of contracting marriage:
1/ those who lack the sufficient use of reason;
2/ those who suffer from a grave defect of discretion of judgment concerning the essential matrimonial rights and duties mutually to be handed over and accepted;
3/ those who are not able to assume the essential obligations of marriage for causes of a psychic nature.

Abuse may be a sign (evidence) of problems mentioned in this canon. If those problems preceeded marriage (doesn’t matter if they were known), then the marriage may be null. Simply put, a person who is dangerous to cohabitate with is likely incapable of marrying - and if the person is incapable to marry, then no valid marriage ever exists. This is because the marriage never existed, not because abuse made it so. Nothing which happens after the exchange of the vows can change the status of marriage from valid to invalid. The person must be unable to marry the moment he attempts to marry, otherwise it’s valid once and forever.

To answer your last question, the spouse who is being abused is entitled to leave the abuser and the same happens when the children are in danger, but this doesn’t mean that one can find a new partner, no.

Can. 1153 §1. If either of the spouses causes grave mental or physical danger to the other spouse or to the offspring or otherwise renders common life too diffcult, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for leaving, either by decree of the local ordinary or even on his or her own authority if there is danger in delay.

Really… WOW, I didn’t know that people couldn’t get “divorced” and marriage annulled to restart their lives if their spouse was abusive and their or children’s lives were at stake… Ok thank you for letting me know!

No restart. Protection of self and children yes, new partner no. It’s not merely a prohibition against remarriage. A valid sacramental marriage ends only in death (barring the cases where it’s not consumated, but let’s not go there). So yes, one can leave and live elsewhere, but one can’t revert to being single or find a new partner.

 

[Seatuck]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread. Please everyone get some books about this subject and read them before giving advice. I hope the original poster and anyone else in a similar situation will go to a priest for advice.

 

[Allen537]

This may be too technical a question for this forum, but I was wondering if anyone could answer my question regarding my divorce and anullment possibilities. My husband cheated on me and despite my efforts to keep our marriage together for 2 and a half years, putting us into marriage counseling and having our vows renewed in the church, he still chose to leave me and is now living with the other woman and we are in the process of a divorce. He is not catholic but I am and we were married in the church. We also have 2 children.

I thought I had read before that in order to declare a marriage null, there had to be an existing problem before the marriage ever took place. That is not the case here, he did not meet her until after we were married.

My question is if anyone knows any way in which a marriage can be annulled in this case. I just feel like in this situation I should not be the one punished by the church for the actions of my husband when I tried my best to keep us together and do the right thing. At what point, if any, does the Catholic church realize that I had no choice in the matter and allow me to move on with my life and find another partner without being in mortal sin?

If your husband entered the marriage not intending to be faithful, then you would have grounds for an annulment.

In Carmel,

Br. Allen

 

[ohioszo]

If your husband entered the marriage not intending to be faithful, then you would have grounds for an annulment.

In Carmel,

Br. Allen

That is exactly what I meant.

I want people to know that I believe in marriage and forgiveness, even though I have never been married.

Just in the past decade, have I, 3 male cousins who divorced their wives, and two other male friends that have.

I miss their wives, very much. These women that they divorced were good practicing Catholics, and extremely talented … also very good with other people, generous, etc. We have been recipients of gifts from them when they were yet married to said men and they were gifts just being themselves!

It is so sad that they have been debased in the way they have with recriminations by their former spouses … who are also Catholic … and sometimes nothing is said but we are warned not to inquire. Two of the fellas have new relationships, one is monkish, one has gotten Parkinson’s, the last … well, I think he may be miserable 'cause his wife isn’t.

It is a game I play by truly admiring and caring about the rejected wives; making a point of speaking to them when I see them, and just praying or thinking well of them. I think that one pattern that is similar in 3 of the cases, is that there was someone significant in their lives, before they married the men that I know who then hated them … probably because they are so independent. (Read whatever you want into that.) Two had been married before, and another it was an almost.

I know that this has nothing to do with the question but, I have a cousin who was married perhaps 4 times. Her son, from the first marriage, married and had twins. His wife decided that she wanted to run around with her gal friends, and left him and the twins. He remarried, and his second wife gave him a set of twins also! He is terrifically well off, and it is interesting to note how he came about his wealth … the dumpster business … leasing them and recycling the metal, etc. He lives down the street from his grandparents, which is sweet. He and his cousin, probably not Catholic, maybe Lutheran, anyway, both bounced back from some tough situations to live again. Death and Resurrection!

I hope that we have given the original poster hope.

 

[Ailina]

Well, in my case, my ex-husband admitted to me long after we were married, that he never thought a marriage should be for life. I didn’t find out his true thoughts and feelings until after I caught him cheating. Perhaps your husband had similar thoughts, and didn’t waste any time looking for a new woman who wouldn’t bother him with the responsibilities of looking after infants and small children (a lot of men seem to leave at such times, sad to say).

I told the Tribunal what he told me, but I think our witnesses may have had to back up that statement of his. Certainly, he didn’t behave like he believed marriage was for life, since he was a serial cheater, but nobody knew that either because he kept that part of his life very secret to everyone, including me. Such is the life of a self-employed IT professional who keeps his own hours and travels a lot (no offense intended towards any self-employed IT professionals who might be reading this).

I am still waiting to hear from the Tribunal regarding my case, almost a year later. I’m okay with waiting because I have no desire to date yet, if ever. It is a slow process, which is probably a good thing, although you do feel like you’re in suspended animation the whole time.

Since your husband has already left, there’s no point wasting time. I would contact the parish priest for the initial interview, just to get the ball rolling.

 

[dans0622]

If your husband entered the marriage not intending to be faithful, then you would have grounds for an annulment.

Hello Br. Allen,

I know it might seem like a minor detail but a better way to say it is “intending not to be faithful.” There needs to be a “positive act of the will” and not a non-act of the will, when we are talking about invalid marital consent…if that makes any sense.

Dan