Can TLM be celebrated without altar rail?

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

The Mass of Paul VI can be celebrated with an altar rail; it is not solely used within the Tridentine Mass. I would prefer to receive kneeling at the New Mass but I don’t because I don’t want to inconvenience the Priest. I have a feeling that many others would opt to kneel if there was a convenient option.

I can see no problem with the reinstallment of an altar rail if there is sufficient demand within the parish. Even though most Catholics attend the Novus Ordo, I still believe that more should be done to accomodate those who prefer the Tridentine Mass. I also said that those who wanted the rail should pay for it themselves. If they truly want a rail, then they should be prepared to at least help with the costs.

Offering the mass - even when there is very low demand - is not accommodation enough?

Many churches in my area have to rebuild/replace very basic systems - heating, roofs, upgrade windows if possible to help manage costs.

Then there is supporting the parish school.

Sure, extra funds could be raised for an altar rail BUT is it really what is needed?

Is it that much of a hardship to not have the rail?

 

[Dempsey1919]

Offering the mass - even when there is very low demand - is not accommodation enough?

There is low demand for this Mass because it was almost abolished; Priests were actually forbidden to say this Mass. In the 60’s and 70’s if people were given the option of both, the Tridentine Mass would have remained the ordinary form of the Mass and the Pauline Mass would have been far less attended.

Many good people have campaigned for the right to attend the Tridentine Mass and Pope Benedict has generously allowed them. Sadly, almost two generations have grown up with the New Mass and don’t know about the Tridentine Mass. That is why they don’t attend.

To appreciate the Tridentine Mass, you must become educated. The symbolism is extremely rich and it would be impossible to comprehend all of the deep meaning without doing a little research.

In the future, I am confident that attendance will increase as more people become aware of the Tridentine Mass. I am 21 years old and I love the Tridentine Mass. Don’t let anyone fool you that it is only nostalgic old people who like the Tridentine Mass. Young people are reclaiming the Tridentine Mass for themselves.

Also, when the SSPX become reconcilled with the Church, we will have far more priests and faithful who prefer the Tridentine Mass.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

There is low demand for this Mass because it was almost abolished; Priests were actually forbidden to say this Mass. In the 60’s and 70’s if people were given the option of both, the Tridentine Mass would have remained the ordinary form of the Mass and the Pauline Mass would have been far less attended.

Many good people have campaigned for the right to attend the Tridentine Mass and Pope Benedict has generously allowed them. Sadly, almost two generations have grown up with the New Mass and don’t know about the Tridentine Mass. That is why they don’t attend.

To appreciate the Tridentine Mass, you must become educated. The symbolism is extremely rich and it would be impossible to comprehend all of the deep meaning without doing a little research.

In the future, I am confident that attendance will increase as more people become aware of the Tridentine Mass. I am 21 years old and I love the Tridentine Mass. Don’t let anyone fool you that it is only nostalgic old people who like the Tridentine Mass. Young people are reclaiming the Tridentine Mass for themselves.

Also, when the SSPX become reconcilled with the Church, we will have far more priests and faithful who prefer the Tridentine Mass.

I grew up with Tridentine mass.

Many more who have grown up with it are not interested in its return.

Some have been curious, tried it and are now ‘been there, done that’ about it.

With the many priorities any parish needs to cope with, re-installing the altar rail should be at the very low end of the spectrum.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I grew up with Tridentine mass.

Many more who have grown up with it are not interested in its return.

Some have been curious, tried it and are now ‘been there, done that’ about it.

Plenty of your peers did not like the liturgical changes. Many of them left the Church.

It is the younger generations who want the Tridentine Mass. They (myself included) yearn for something for something ancient and sacred. We want to worship the way our forefathers did, the way thousands of Saints did.

I know this because I have seen many other young traditionalists on this forum.

Most of those against the Tridentine Mass are in their 50’s and 60’s. The younger generation of Priests are far more orthodox in belief and practice.

The traditional orders, such as the Institute of Christ the King and the FSSP are rapidly growing when other orders are declining.

It is only a matter of time before the SSPX are brought back into full communion with the Church, and when they are, you will see changes. We will have more Priests who are able to celebrate the Tridentine Mass and there will be more Priests available to train others to do so.

Eventually, every seminary will have to teach students how to celebrate the Tridentine Mass.

The Tridentine Mass is here to stay and things can only get better.

I have already seen the “reform of the reform.” My church has just reinstalled some stained glass windows which were taken down after Vatican II. I know that other churches will begin doing the same.

 

[kleary]

Can the TLM be celebrated without an altar rail? My church is beautiful, designed in the roman style, with beautiful stained glass an high-relief stations of the cross. But, it was built after vatican II, and has no altar rail.

Basically everything needed for a TLM to be celebrated is there (i think; im a bit confused about whether the altar can be a single peice or must have seperate legs supporting it) except an altar rail.

So my question is, could a TLM be celebrated without an altar rail, with communicants kneeling, say, at the altar steps instead?

(It would be hard to build an altar rail because it would not go strait across; the alar is raised on a shape which is basically half of an octagon.)

Thanks!

Yes. When we go to the Diocesean cathedral every year the people kneel on the floor before the Sanctuary where the Communion Rail used to be.

Ken

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I got into trouble posting about kneeling to receive Our Lord over in Liturgy and Sacraments.

I want to kneel to receive, but I don’t want to be the only one.
I do not, currently, attend an EF Mass, but the OF.
Should I write to my pastor about it? He has given numerous talks regarding what the Eucharist is, the devotion we should have to Our Lord in the Eucharist (we have 24 hour Adoration), and other good/informative stuff as well.
I just don’t want to throw Father off. I know he already thinks I am a little goofy because I veil (not bad goofy but good goofy… if that makes sense) so I think he expects it a bit. When he sees me a Communion, he doesn’t even try to go for the hands like some other priests do.

To wind this up- advice?

 

[jmcrae]

I got into trouble posting about kneeling to receive Our Lord over in Liturgy and Sacraments.

I want to kneel to receive, but I don’t want to be the only one.
I do not, currently, attend an EF Mass, but the OF.
Should I write to my pastor about it? He has given numerous talks regarding what the Eucharist is, the devotion we should have to Our Lord in the Eucharist (we have 24 hour Adoration), and other good/informative stuff as well.
I just don’t want to throw Father off. I know he already thinks I am a little goofy because I veil (not bad goofy but good goofy… if that makes sense) so I think he expects it a bit. When he sees me a Communion, he doesn’t even try to go for the hands like some other priests do.

To wind this up- advice?

If you are limber enough to go down on your knees and get up again without it turning into a side-show, then go for it.

I have a friend who just flings herself to her knees to receive, and then jumps back up on to her feet, in one smooth flowing motion that doesn’t interrupt the flow of the communion line-up. No one has ever told her that she can’t or shouldn’t do this, and there is nothing distracting in the way that she does it.

I, on the other hand, should not attempt to kneel on the bare floor, unless I have something to grab on to, to hoist myself back up again, because my knees don’t bend nearly as easily as my friend’s do. (Kneeling on the sanctuary step is a lot easier, just because you have that bit of room underneath your feet that gives you the right amount of leverage to get up and down. but when everyone else is standing for Holy Communion, it’s not very convenient to kneel on the sanctuary step, because usually, that’s right where the priest is standing.)

 

[Dempsey1919]

PatienceAndLove,

I know what you mean. I attend the EF mostly, but when I attend the OF I want to receive kneeling. I don’t do this because it would be seen as a political statement by some and it would also disrupt the flow of the Mass.

However, this is why I have been saying that the Churches should reinstall altar rails. The Mass of Paul VI can be celebrated in this way and if it was, I believe it would generate far greater respect for the Real Presence.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Can the TLM be celebrated without an altar rail?

It depends what you mean by “Tridentine Mass”. The only facilities absolutely required, under Trent or any other council, are bread, wine, a priest, and (arguably) water.

However under the discipline of Trent a proper altar must be provided if this is possible, which includes a certain amount of space from which the laity are excluded. If you don’t have it, however, you don’t have it, and Mass may be said without.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

PatienceAndLove,

I know what you mean. I attend the EF mostly, but when I attend the OF I want to receive kneeling. I don’t do this because it would be seen as a political statement by some and it would also disrupt the flow of the Mass.

However, this is why I have been saying that the Churches should reinstall altar rails. The Mass of Paul VI can be celebrated in this way and if it was, I believe it would generate far greater respect for the Real Presence.

For myself, though- should I write to Father about my desires regarding receiving. I don’t want to cause an “issue” if I kneel to receive. I am sure he won’t mind, but I don’t want to scare him. If that makes sense?

 

[Dempsey1919]

For myself, though- should I write to Father about my desires regarding receiving. I don’t want to cause an “issue” if I kneel to receive. I am sure he won’t mind, but I don’t want to scare him. If that makes sense?

Yeah, I think that you should discuss this with your Priest. Tell about your desire to receive kneeling and explain your reasons. Reassure him that you don’t want to cause any problems but would love to receive this way. I’m sure that he will allow you to do this.

I have talked with my Priest about things like this and he has been really helpful. He has became a friend and I now talk with him about many issues. Your Priest is there to help you and I’m sure that he will do all he can for you as long as your intentions are good.

 

[palmas85]

Can the TLM be celebrated without an altar rail? My church is beautiful, designed in the roman style, with beautiful stained glass an high-relief stations of the cross. But, it was built after vatican II, and has no altar rail.

Basically everything needed for a TLM to be celebrated is there (i think; im a bit confused about whether the altar can be a single peice or must have seperate legs supporting it) except an altar rail.

So my question is, could a TLM be celebrated without an altar rail, with communicants kneeling, say, at the altar steps instead?

(It would be hard to build an altar rail because it would not go strait across; the alar is raised on a shape which is basically half of an octagon.)

Thanks!

Yes it can and often is.

 

[lak611]

It depends what you mean by “Tridentine Mass”. The only facilities absolutely required, under Trent or any other council, are bread, wine, a priest, and (arguably) water.

However under the discipline of Trent a proper altar must be provided if this is possible, which includes a certain amount of space from which the laity are excluded. If you don’t have it, however, you don’t have it, and Mass may be said without.

That’s a good point. Mass has always been said during wartime in the field. No altars or altar rails were available there.