Can two people who are dating pray in-depth alone together?

[Em_in_FL]

I have never heard of such a thing? Praying together being inappropriate??? That just boggles my mind!

I mean, I understand what everyone is saying about “spiritual intimacy with your spouse”… but I honestly do not understand how growing “spiritually intimate” with a non-spouse (boy/girl friend or fiance) is inappropriate?
I (of course!) don’t think it’s a wise idea for married people to have a “spiritual partner” other than their spouse (makes NO sense), but someone who is dating or engaged??? I think growing together spiritually is a vital part of the process. I think “spiritual intimacy” is part of falling in love.

Let me put it this way… if I didn’t ever get to know my husband’s “intimate spirituality” while dating… I don’t think our relationship would have even developed!

I think it’s a vital part of the dating process!

 

[Matthewd777]

I agree with Em_in_FL about this sounding a little mind-boggling. To me, it almost seems in a way that to not pray together would be excluding God from the inner workings of the relationship and he desires to hear the needs and concerns of the couple, their struggles, their victories, their defeats, etc.

 

[chevalier]

I agree with Em_in_FL about this sounding a little mind-boggling. To me, it almost seems in a way that to not pray together would be excluding God from the inner workings of the relationship and he desires to hear the needs and concerns of the couple, their struggles, their victories, their defeats, etc.

Since you use the expression “a couple” and talking about victories or defeats of a couple, are you talking about an exclusive relationship? If yes, then it would be a good idea to pray together, sure. Just still need to watch it, as I point out in my reservations above.

 

[Matthewd777]

I’m referring to a man and a woman who are in a relationship with the goal of eventual marriage. Tell me, how is this wrong for them to pray to God for guidance, needs, concerns, and thanksgivings, etc.? Suppose the two people wanted to pray together for other people that may need prayers, i.e. someone who is ill? 1 Thessalonians 5:17-19 states…
“Pray without ceasing; In EVERYTHING give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit.”
Praying together and thanking God for bringing the two of you into each other’s lives is certainly supported by this scripture passage since it says “In Everything give thanks.” Everything, means everything, there are no prohibitions applying to two people praying together. “Do not quench the spirit” - If two people feel the Holy Spirit prompting them to pray together then they should not suppress those feelings, as scripture states. We shouldn’t extinguish the flame of The Spirit, but allow it to continue to burn.
There is power when two or more are gathered in the name of Christ Jesus as scripture states in Matthew 18:20…
“For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”

 

[Matthewd777]

God wants to be involved in every single aspect of our lives. Jesus never said anything about not praying together because you may “emotionally bond” on some new level. I can clearly understand what BreathetheSpirit is referring to when they speak of the beauty and intimacy of a married couple praying, but i don’t think praying together before a marriage would lessen the impact or take away anything from praying together within the marriage. Praying together within the sacrament of marriage is a completely seperate act in itself, for one because - YOU’RE MARRIED! To equate the two is really non-sensical.

 

[havemercy]

There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Yes you can pray the rosary in groups and pray with each other.Yes you can pray for your marriage and discuss it at length.Otherwise how else would you be sure this is the person you want to marry. However , prayer can lead to a very deep intimacy. Even engaged couples should be limiting the amount of time they spend alone together and they shouldn’t be doing the same things that a husband does for a wife and vice-versa. You wait until the sacramental vow has been contracted and then under the mantle of that grace you begin that type of intimiate and emotional closeness , dependency and reliance on each other. We’ve allowed society to blur the lines of intimacy for us. The joy and wonder of “knowing” your spouse should take place after marriage and not before.

My friends who have cohabitated and now don’t because of a breakup often suffer from the loss of the little intimate things that a couple share and do for each other, not the sex.I’ve seen similiar pain amongst my divorced friends and family. Sometimes it’s the little jobs that you do for each other that make the biggest intimate impact.Boyfriends and girlfriends as well as engageds need to put limits on the relationship. I must know about six engaged in one form or another couples that have already bought a house and are in effect “playing house”. Doing all the chores together etc making decisions as a couple they have no right to be making until the marriage has taken place. One of my girlfriends had that experience . She was a virgin, waiting for her wedding night. She is suffering from the loss of that intimate marital relationship that she was involved in now that they are broken up. Plus she had to go through the craziness of selling a house , furniture etc. I’ve had several friends who have done all that and then gotten married. They tell me marriage didn’t do anything to change their relationship. Of course it didn’t . They were already living married.

Sorry , can’t come up with better theological description but that’s the sentiment I’m going for.There’s a line of intimacy that shouldn’t be crossed and prayer being what it is an intimate experience sets up a couple for crossing that line.

Ah, I understand exactly what you’re talking about then. Amen.

 

[chevalier]

Matthewd777, if you read the entirety of my post (yes, I know it’s long but if you want to rebuke my points you need to read them all in full), you will see that I said I would pray with a girl in some situations. So, unless I’m a hypocrite, I can’t consider it a bad thing to do, can I?

Now, of course praying for the future of a committed relationship by a fiancee and fiance or at least a girlfriend and boyfriend, is a lovely thing and it’s a blessing already, the fact that it’s possible. For example, right now I feel like I could give 10 years of my life for a girl I could pray with. But let’s leave my feelings aside for a moment.

The chief focus for me is 1) dating, 2) deep prayer. You obviously don’t need to take all the girls you take to a cafe to church as well. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I don’t think I’d even feel the need to pray together with a person I had only just met and were having a second or third cafe sortie with. You just don’t go into deep prayer with strangers.

Nothing wrong sharing a prayer before eating with whomever you’re eating with, for instance, but if we’re talking about praying deeply together with a girl one’s dating, it’s not about praying deeply with a fellow Christian because it’s a fellow Christian. It’s praying with a girl in her character as your date. I don’t think that character merits a special approach to prayer or making a point of praying together and on top of that, making a point of making the prayer deep. I would not consider it proper to make a third date with a hereunto stranger a prayer date, either, for instance, in a normal situation (suppose we’re not talking about a love from first sight at a pilgrimage scenario). In such a situation, if I wanted to pray with that girl, I would ask myself why I want to pray with her instead of, for example, praying on my own or praying for her, or for knowing God’s will between her and me. In other words, why I specifically want to pray with her. Or specifically want it deep. Not everything is gold that glitters. Maybe I think it’s oh so great and holy and noble of me, but in fact I want to create some spiritual bond for which the time has not come yet? Or maybe I want to come off as a good Christian before her or before myself? What are my motives?

I’m not saying that such praying shouldn’t take place. I’m saying that certain questions had better be asked and one had better be careful. If you’re still not convinced, I have an example for you: Should co-perpetrators of the sin of adultery pray together for forgiveness? It would be hard to find an absolute ground of prohibition working in every circumstance, but it certainly wouldn’t be proper in a normal situation. I’ve even heard of people actually ending up committing adultery after being tempted after praying together. Perhaps something to do with exaltation or emotions.

Similarly, I don’t need to pray for preservance of chastity and God’s grace for a relationship at the stage where I’m learning the girl’s name and listening to her talking about her hobbies as we’re sipping the first or second coffee we’re sharing. I certainly don’t need to engage in deep prayer or deep meditation with someone I barely know but feel attracted to. When I start going to church together together with that person, then might be a good time to start repeating the words of prayers aloud together, but I don’t think before. I don’t want to make it too absolute because situations differ, but I’m speaking about the typical situation. I once again need to point out that sharing Our Father and Hail Mary is not the same as engaging in an hour of contemplative prayer in a secluded place. Of course, I see no reason why simple friends of different sixes shouldn’t do that, but I think it may be dangerous to make it a part of a dating “relationship”. Especially if it’s one of a couple people we’re seeing casually over a coffee and cake or seeing a film with every fortnight or so. Then the prayer would be much deeper than the relationship itself, if the latter at all merits the name. This is assuming that there’s no specific intention or need for prayer. Still, I don’t think praying for Jane’s parents while holding Jane’s hand on Wednesday and then holding hands and praying for Mathilda’s brother on Thursday and Joan’s grandfather on Friday and Stella’s best on Saturday and making those prayers deep on purpose is such a great idea. In fact, I believe it’s a wrong idea.

Therefore:

i don’t think praying together before a marriage would lessen the impact or take away anything from praying together within the marriage. Praying together within the sacrament of marriage is a completely seperate act in itself, for one because - YOU’RE MARRIED! To equate the two is really non-sensical.

I agree if we’re talking about a reasonable, healthy situation, but I put emphasis on reasonable and healthy.

 

[leonie]

Kimberly Hahn said that praying intimately one on one can lead you to have deeper feelings before your relationship is ready for it.

It makes sense to me.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I seems that those who seem to think this concept is, to quote one poster “non-sensical,” are apparantly missing the qualifiers, “deep” or “intimate”.

As I said upthread I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that couples should never pray together.

Do you understand the distiction?

 

[Em_in_FL]

I seems that those who seem to think this concept is, to quote one poster “non-sensical,” are apparantly missing the qualifiers, “deep” or “intimate”.

As I said upthread I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that couples should never pray together.

Do you understand the distiction?

No… not really… to be honest???

Can you elaborate on “deep” or “intimate” and when precisely in a realtionship this type of prayer is unacceptable?

I’m honestly confusted…

 

[Ray_Scheel]

Wow.

I have been trying to figure out for a while what I missed or where things went wrong in my courtship with my ex that led to us even getting serious (and then me proposing) despite the warning signs that were present from early on. I had even temporarily delayed our wedding at one point to give her some more time to work on things.

As much as I was aware that premarital sex could lead to an inappropriate feeling of committment, I had never before considered that us starting to pray together deeply fairly early on might have accellerated our spiritual connection before the relationship itself was ready. However, that idea makes a lot of sense to me based on my personal experience.

We started praying together one on one, in depth, well before we were really “dating” in the romantic sense. Our prayer sessions started not long after we were introduced to one another regarding concerns about her roomate at the time that was going a mental/emotional crisis. (Her roomate then was also a long-time friend of mine. She was the person that introduced me to my ex and is now also a witness in my nullity proceedings).

I’m going to have to mull this over a while longer, but I’d now agree that frequent intimate one-on-one “sharing” prayer is probably not a good idea until the knot is tied.

 

[leonie]

Wow.

I have been trying to figure out for a while what I missed or where things went wrong in my courtship with my ex that led to us even getting serious (and then me proposing) despite the warning signs that were present from early on. I had even temporarily delayed our wedding at one point to give her some more time to work on things.

As much as I was aware that premarital sex could lead to an inappropriate feeling of committment, I had never before considered that us starting to pray together deeply fairly early on might have accellerated our spiritual connection before the relationship itself was ready. However, that idea makes a lot of sense to me based on my personal experience.

We started praying together one on one, in depth, well before we were really “dating” in the romantic sense. Our prayer sessions started not long after we were introduced to one another regarding concerns about her roomate at the time that was going a mental/emotional crisis. (Her roomate then was also a long-time friend of mine. She was the person that introduced me to my ex and is now also a witness in my nullity proceedings).

I’m going to have to mull this over a while longer, but I’d now agree that frequent intimate one-on-one “sharing” prayer is probably not a good idea until the knot is tied.

Thanks for sharing. That is a really helpful example.

 

[chevalier]

No… not really… to be honest???

Can you elaborate on “deep” or “intimate” and when precisely in a realtionship this type of prayer is unacceptable?

I’m honestly confusted…

Let me chime in, please:

1. Sharing an Our Father is one thing, let alone a prayer before a meal. Now, joining together for a rosary with improvised meditations of mysteries for people who don’t normally do it much, that’s a whole different thing. “Deep” here means a special distinction. When I started dwelling on deep (I believe I was the originator of this distinction here), I underlined the emphasis that was put on making the prayer deep, as opposed to simply praying (not that I would advocate “shallow” prayer). Sinking into contemplative prayer for many minutes with improvised words, let alone holding hands and whatnot, that’s not something I would advocate for people who are starting some get-to-know and have not known each other before. Might perhaps be fine for friends going romantic. Especially if they prayed together as friends.
2. As for intimate. It’s one thing when you pray in a group, but praying with a single person habitually and deeply creates a bond. It’s also one thing when you pray for specific intentions or “just” pray, it’s a different one when you pray because you’re dating. I don’t think having been to a cafe twice or thrice gives you any distinct character to talk about. In fact, such prayer would create misleading levels of intimacy not compatible with the overall intimacy level of the acquaintance - and there’s a reason I’m not saying relationship. When the person is your girl or guy and you don’t go to dates with anyone else, now that’s the time to pray some and thank God if you can. The fact that you can pray together is a humongous blessing.

Note: One should really be careful not to eroticise prayer. Or to make prayer into a date. Certains connections between people are legitimate, certain others are not. For example, would it be proper for a married person and his or her lover to pray together? Or for a priest and a pretty young woman he’s attracted to? If the basis and the defining factor of their sharing of the prayer is to be their mutual attraction?

This is why if I were to pray with a girl I were considering for girlfriend but were not quite decided to focus on her, I would try to keep my voice steady and not emotional, and be careful not to go wishy-washy, especially if I had to make up the words on the fly. I would definitely not want to tie her to me more than needed. Think of the pain of loss if you were to split with that person. Additionally, I certainly wouldn’t like a girl to get impressed with, let’s say, my rosary meditation ideas, and grow into some sort of spiritual leader figure. I’m her companion, maybe her boyfriend, but not her chaplain. I have no desire to be anyone’s makeshift spiritual director substitute and such a role is certainly not to be combined with romantic affection. One last thought is that someone falling for impressions of my perceived godliness derived from praying with me while seeing me favourably from the perspective of romantic attraction, such a person might become blind to my faults (this may be more specific to you than to someone else because people seem to have the disturbing habit of seeing me as holier than I am, which is probably not true of everyone Catholic). That could lead to ignoring things which might normally make the girl decide we were not compatible. Of course, things are different if we know for sure the other person normally prays as much as we do or in a similar fashion, but one still ought to be careful, in my opinion.

Why I think Latin would be good is not that Latin makes you sound educated or oh-so-traditional, but that whoever will think you a freak for churchgoing and NFP, will surely run away upon hearing you pray in Latin. But this is an added value to the fact that Latin makes it way easier for you to control your voice: just try. Latin is a language you cannot be wishy-washy in. Okay, Catullus does prove otherwise, but we’re talking Aquinas more than Catullus, hehe. Besides, while you surely can improvise in Latin, it’s not the same as going lose with private and contemplative divagations and making a new acquaintance follow it. New acquaintances are, well, new acquaintances. Not foster kin.

 

[chevalier]

I was thinking about how people grow closer spiritually, emotionally and physically. I’m unsure but would think out of all these, that spirtual exchanges through prayer together could be the strongest union and most beautiful. In a relationship that may move toward marriage in the future, should the couple pray alone together (spiritual intimacy) for an extended period of time or is this a gift to be salvaged in the bonds of marriage?

I cannot speak as to should’s, but if you don’t mind my very own perspective, I think it’s all right, but there should still be the distinction in mind that the couple are not married and it should be understood that they are not jumping forward a step, but are still looking forward to marriage. It shouldn’t appear to them as if they are already married. As a rule. I don’t claim there are no exceptions. Let’s say people fall in love deeply, pray deeply from the moment they meet to the moment they die. Or one of them, rather. I don’t have a problem with that scenario. I don’t like the idea of artificial limitations. But artificially accelerated bonding isn’t great, either. And once again, I would try to not take up an illegitimate leadership role over someone. Also, I believe one should be careful not to allow shared prayer to legitimatise illegitimate acts or states. Pushing physical intimacy a notch because community in prayer develops is not a good idea.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Let me chime in, please:

1. Sharing an Our Father is one thing, let alone a prayer before a meal. Now, joining together for a rosary with improvised meditations of mysteries for people who don’t normally do it much, that’s a whole different thing. “Deep” here means a special distinction. When I started dwelling on deep (I believe I was the originator of this distinction here), I underlined the emphasis that was put on making the prayer deep, as opposed to simply praying (not that I would advocate “shallow” prayer). Sinking into contemplative prayer for many minutes with improvised words, let alone holding hands and whatnot, that’s not something I would advocate for people who are starting some get-to-know and have not known each other before. Might perhaps be fine for friends going romantic. Especially if they prayed together as friends.
2. As for intimate. It’s one thing when you pray in a group, but praying with a single person habitually and deeply creates a bond. It’s also one thing when you pray for specific intentions or “just” pray, it’s a different one when you pray because you’re dating. I don’t think having been to a cafe twice or thrice gives you any distinct character to talk about. In fact, such prayer would create misleading levels of intimacy not compatible with the overall intimacy level of the acquaintance - and there’s a reason I’m not saying relationship. When the person is your girl or guy and you don’t go to dates with anyone else, now that’s the time to pray some and thank God if you can. The fact that you can pray together is a humongous blessing.

Note: One should really be careful not to eroticise prayer. Or to make prayer into a date. Certains connections between people are legitimate, certain others are not. For example, would it be proper for a married person and his or her lover to pray together? Or for a priest and a pretty young woman he’s attracted to? If the basis and the defining factor of their sharing of the prayer is to be their mutual attraction?

This is why if I were to pray with a girl I were considering for girlfriend but were not quite decided to focus on her, I would try to keep my voice steady and not emotional, and be careful not to go wishy-washy, especially if I had to make up the words on the fly. I would definitely not want to tie her to me more than needed. Think of the pain of loss if you were to split with that person. Additionally, I certainly wouldn’t like a girl to get impressed with, let’s say, my rosary meditation ideas, and grow into some sort of spiritual leader figure. I’m her companion, maybe her boyfriend, but not her chaplain. I have no desire to be anyone’s makeshift spiritual director substitute and such a role is certainly not to be combined with romantic affection. One last thought is that someone falling for impressions of my perceived godliness derived from praying with me while seeing me favourably from the perspective of romantic attraction, such a person might become blind to my faults (this may be more specific to you than to someone else because people seem to have the disturbing habit of seeing me as holier than I am, which is probably not true of everyone Catholic). That could lead to ignoring things which might normally make the girl decide we were not compatible. Of course, things are different if we know for sure the other person normally prays as much as we do or in a similar fashion, but one still ought to be careful, in my opinion.

I guess the question still lies about what “dating” is, according to the OP’s title of this thread… “Can two people who are dating pray in-depth alone together?”…

If dating = exclusive relationship geared toward marriage… then I still firmly stand by my first post…

I have never heard of such a thing? Praying together being inappropriate??? That just boggles my mind!

I mean, I understand what everyone is saying about “spiritual intimacy with your spouse”… but I honestly do not understand how growing “spiritually intimate” with a non-spouse (boy/girl friend or fiance) is inappropriate?
I (of course!) don’t think it’s a wise idea for married people to have a “spiritual partner” other than their spouse (makes NO sense), but someone who is dating or engaged??? I think growing together spiritually is a vital part of the process. I think “spiritual intimacy” is part of falling in love.

Let me put it this way… if I didn’t ever get to know my husband’s “intimate spirituality” while dating… I don’t think our relationship would have even developed!

I think it’s a vital part of the dating process!

 

[Keikiolu]

I was thinking about how people grow closer spiritually, emotionally and physically. I’m unsure but would think out of all these, that spirtual exchanges through prayer together could be the strongest union and most beautiful. In a relationship that may move toward marriage in the future, should the couple pray alone together (spiritual intimacy) for an extended period of time or is this a gift to be salvaged in the bonds of marriage?

Of course they should pray deeply together!

How could anyone say otherwise?

 

[chevalier]

I guess the question still lies about what “dating” is, according to the OP’s title of this thread… “Can two people who are dating pray in-depth alone together?”…

If dating = exclusive relationship geared toward marriage… then I still firmly stand by my first post…

And if that’s the case, then I agree with you, although I’d be more cautious than you.

 

[stbruno]

I love what Fr.Corapi says about people who are in love…and I suppose this lesson can be for those who are dating…which hopefully is a precursor to marriage.

fathercorapi.com/articledet.aspx?articleID=1896068715

If you want your relationship to be fruitful…you should not think only of the little house, the picket fence, a dog and 2.1 children…instead in Fr.Corapi’s words when it comes to truly loving someone, your desire for them must extend beyond these worldly things:

*Now, you must understand I am speaking with Christians who have hopefully had some education in their faith. They have been secularized! They think on a purely natural plane, which is surely not enough for a Christian and a Catholic. *
*I always ask them when they say, “What else could there be?”: *
*“How about heaven? How about eternal beatitude? How about being together forever with God and all of the angels and saints?” *“Oh yes, we never thought about that.”
So prayers together is naturally an extension of that idea.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

After further reflection on my own case, I’m of the mindset that deep sharing prayer should not be started by a couple while alone until they are actively discerning marriage, and that its depth should be carefully regulated until marriage is imminent. I am now thinking that in my own case beginning to share in prayer alone probably led to us start dating in the first place, and that our frequent praying together almost certainly led me to proceed with marriage despite some reservations I had even during our engagement. However, I do think that a couple should start learning to pray together while engaged, certainly by the time they start going through marriage prep. Mine was a particularly unique situation that is not likely to arise with frequency.

 

[chevalier]

You sort of said in a paragraph what I took a pageworth to say.