Can We Break the Covenant of God?

[Tonks40]

I was just in the shower, singing the Divine Mercy chaplet (yeah, I sing in the shower) and reflecting on a couple of things about our Catholic Faith. As many of us may (or may not) know, the coming of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross fulfills many of the prophesies foretold in the Old Testament, but also fulfills to the fullest extent the covenant God made to us, first with the Jews, then through his Son. And a question has come to mind: Can we who believe in the Risen Lord Jesus break the laws of the convenant that God has made with us? Not only just with sin, but in particular with the laws as governed in our Catholic faith? How is that done? Where in Scripture is that shown?

Also, another thought: How about Protestants? Have they in effect broken that covenant that was promised through the Word made Flesh? What if they are content with their own teachings, feeling that since they’ve accepted Christ as their personal Lord and saviour, is that a covenant onto it’s own, or is there more to it that maybe our seperated brethren in Christ don’t know, or care to know about??

I know the answer may be obvious, especially to those of us who are well-versed in the Catholic faith, but I would like to see what y’all think?

 

[NotWorthy]

NO! Not until we die. Just look at other Covenants with God. In marriage, “Two become One”, and “until death do us part”. The Covenant is not broken until one of the parties dies.

With the Deuteronomic Covenant, it seems like, at first glance, the Israelites broke the Covenant. But their exile was simply one of the curses of the Covenant (read Deut. ch. 28) that they were still bound to. In their case, the last curse was death. This is one of the reasons Jesus had to come down, take on all our sins, and suffer exile and death. It was either God or Israel that had to die in order to break that Covenant.

Notworthy

 

[Thal59]

Man cannot break God’s covenants.

But God’s covenants can break us.

Thal59

 

[spauline]

Yes, those guys are right, I think. We can walk away, but we can be restored too, maybe even in a historical sense. I discuss this on my blog here, about how it is likely that because “Amen, Amen, I say to you, everything will be fulfilled,” the Church may even traverse a history that is a fulfillment of what Isreal went through.

 

[NotWorthy]

spauline:

Yes, those guys are right, I think. We can walk away, but we can be restored too, maybe even in a historical sense. I discuss this on my blog here, about how it is likely that because “Amen, Amen, I say to you, everything will be fulfilled,” the Church may even traverse a history that is a fulfillment of what Isreal went through.

**Except **God’s presence will never leave the Catholic Church, like He did Israel - or else Jesus was wrong.

I think the story of Israel, with the endless cycles of sin and redemption, is the story of each one of use.

Notworthy

 

[Matt16_18]

Tonks40:

Can we who believe in the Risen Lord Jesus break the laws of the convenant that God has made with us?

Of course we can break our covenant with God by being disobedient to God’s statues and commandments. God doesn’t destroy our free will when we enter into covenant with God.…I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, by which you are saved, if you hold it fast …
1Cor 15:1

“And if you [Solomon] will walk in my ways, keeping my statutes and my commandments, as your father David walked, then I will lengthen your days."
1Kings 3:14

Now King Solomon loved many foreign women: the daughter of Pharaoh, and Moabite, Ammonite, Edomite, Sidonian, and Hittite women, from the nations concerning which the LORD had said to the people of Israel, “You shall not enter into marriage with them, neither shall they with you, for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods”; Solomon clung to these in love. He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart. For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not wholly true to the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. So Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not wholly follow the LORD, as David his father had done. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Molech the abomination of the Ammonites, on the mountain east of Jerusalem. And so he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods. And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not keep what the LORD commanded. Therefore the LORD said to Solomon, "Since this has been your mind and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you and will give it to your servant.
1Kings 11:1-11

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them; and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Begone, Satan! for it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”
Matt 4:8-9

 

[NotWorthy]

You do not have to keep a Covenant (and, of course, you will suffer the punishments for it), but you can not break a covenant without one of the two parties dying.

Remember, the Israelites did not keep the Covenant promises, but they were still subject to the Covenant curses, as detailed in Deuteronomy ch. 28.

As in the marriage Covenant, “til death do us part”.

Notworthy

 

[Tonks40]

This might be of interest:

Unrighteousness or sin means failing to do what is expected as a covenant partner. Sin is an act of in-fidelity and unfaithfulness to the covenant responsibility. Man’s covenant responsibility is spelled out in the Ten Commandments-the “testimony” or edut-which constitute the oath-bound covenant stipulations.

The covenant also helps us to understand the gravity of sin. All sin must ultimately be a sin against the God of the covenant (Ps. 51:4). The sinner is a covenant breaker who offers insult to the covenant Maker. He incurs the curse of the covenant, a curse that is so terrible that its weight and intensity can only be seen in the hell which was exhibited in the execution of Christ.

salvationhistory.com/library/scripture/wordofgod/covtbrins.cfm

 

[NotWorthy]

This might be a case of semantics. Your text mentions that someone is a covenant breaker, but they are still bound by the terms of the Covenant.

I say that means the Covenant itself is not broken, because if it was, you wouldn’t be bound by the terms. When someone is married, and the husband cheats, he’s still bound to the marriage even though he broke the covenant, right? Only when one partner dies is the other one free to marry someone else.

Tomato - Tomato (Boy, this loses it’s meaning when typed, eh?)

Notworthy

 

[spauline]

**Except **God’s presence will never leave the Catholic Church, like He did Israel - or else Jesus was wrong.

I think the story of Israel, with the endless cycles of sin and redemption, is the story of each one of use.

Notworthy

Well, yes, God never leaves the RCC, nor does He allow it to teach error. Well, yes, I think that Israel goes through countless ordeals of sin and subsequent redemption. However, I still see the three big ones:

I. Egypt’s Enslavement / Exodus and initial Israel
II. Intermediate Falling Away / Babylonian Exile and Restoration of Cov
III. OT Antichrist Antiochus / First Coming of Christ

…analogous to the three stage “way of the pilgrim”
GB,
scott

 

[Tonks40]

NotWorthy:

This might be a case of semantics. Your text mentions that someone is a covenant breaker, but they are still bound by the terms of the Covenant.

I say that means the Covenant itself is not broken, because if it was, you wouldn’t be bound by the terms. When someone is married, and the husband cheats, he’s still bound to the marriage even though he broke the covenant, right? Only when one partner dies is the other one free to marry someone else.

Tomato - Tomato (Boy, this loses it’s meaning when typed, eh?)

Notworthy

To-may-to…to-mah-to…(phonetically, it doesn’t do any justice to the saying, either! tee-hee)

You’re right, it is a case of semantics. When I originally worded my questions, I asked if man can break the covenant? It would seem that that this is possible. God’s promise is eternal - it’s just man that may have the difficulty of living up to his promises.