Can we call the Orthodox and Protestant Churches a Catholic Denomination?

  • Thread starter Thread starter polgas733
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

polgas733

Guest
Can we call all Orthodox Churches and Protestant Churches a Catholic Denomination?
since they use the Trinity and the Bible
as a foundation of their faith

Unity requires that there be a knowledge and physical manifestation of that unity. That is the Catholic Church which is the visible Church. The invisible Church does not represent unity because it is known only to God which may be unified in faith but not in purpose.
 
While as Orthodox we refer to ourselves as “Catholic”, a Roman Catholic person calling us a “Catholic denomination” would be found quite offensive.
 
While as Orthodox we refer to ourselves as “Catholic”, a Roman Catholic person calling us a “Catholic denomination” would be found quite offensive.
Yes, and Protestants by their very nature would not enjoy being called a Catholic. (The word ‘Protestant’ comes from ‘protest’, i.e. Protestants protest against the teachings of Catholicism.)

I think the ‘best’ way to put it is if you just put Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism under the same umbrella of Christianity. Granted, Orthodoxes might think Catholics have strayed from the truth; Catholics might believe Protestants have deviated from the truth; and Protestants might disagree strongly with Catholic dogma, but at the end of the day, do we not all worship the same triune Judeo-Christian God? Are we not all one in Christ?

Just a thought.
 
Belief in ath catholic church as described in the Nicene Creed does refer to the universal church, does it not?
 
Lutherans have no problems calling themselves catholic. I know they use the word in the Apostles Creed. But, they do not call themselves Catholic.
 
Can we call all Orthodox Churches and Protestant Churches a Catholic Denomination?
One would really have to define ‘denomination’ very specifically before something like that can be addressed. I am not sure what the normal meaning is, when it is used for Protestant churches.

You seem to be suggesting some sort of subsidiarity of these various groups to a larger whole, which you suggest might be called ‘Catholic’. Pope Benedict has called the Protestant churches ‘ecclesial communities’, that is a term which happens to be also used within the Catholic church for sub-parish lay organizations.

It seems etymologically, the word ‘denomination’ means “to name” or “a naming”, but that doesn’t help much since it doesn’t indicate why some things are differently named. Since every possible organization (governments, fraternal socirties, trade groups and commercial enterprises as well as religious associations) has a name of some sort I suppose the term is not very helpful unless we define what they have in common first.

If you want to make up your own rules you could say that “… they use the Trinity and the Bible as a foundation of their faith” as the common denominator :p. But those to conditions do not really encompass all that the term ‘catholic’ implies, it seems rather minimalist, even to this Orthodox Christian. It seems in fact to be the bare minimum for recognizing Christianity at all, in any form including many heresies.

As stated, Catholics and Orthodox dislike the term. Very probably because it implies a commonality that they do not see or will not accept with one another or others. For instance, both the Orthodox and Catholic churches see themselves as the One true church, that doesn’t leave any room for equivalence.

Poll takers and government record keepers might use the term ‘denomination’ for their own purposes or as a matter of convenience, whether the various organizations agree or not, it hardly matters.

If you wanted to more narrowly define what a denomination is, to … let’s say separate groups that are almost exactly alike but with different names, one might say that the various Autonomous Ritual Particular Catholic (Sui Iuris) churches are Catholic “denominations”, since that is exactly what the word ‘autonomous’ is meant to convey … a ‘self named’ body or a group ‘with it’s own name’. The assertion among Catholics is that they all believe exactly the same things, and are equal in every other way, but have their own names and canon law.

The same might be said of the various Orthodox synods.

But neither (Catholic nor Orthodox) church will admit to other churches being in any way equivalent to themselves, and since the term is already used in Protestant circles, I doubt that the Orthodox and Catholic churches will ever adopt the terminology. They will probably always use another word to describe this internal segmentation within their own communions.
 
I believe in one holy catholic & apostolic church…
Seems to sum everything quite nicely for me. I do think
the term catholic is thrown around quite liberally & without clear definition.
The catholic “denomination” with churches in the
community is the Roman Catholic one.
 
I believe in one holy catholic & apostolic church…
Seems to sum everything quite nicely for me. I do think
the term catholic is thrown around quite liberally & without clear definition.
The catholic “denomination” with churches in the
community is the Roman Catholic one.
That definition of ‘Catholic’ is ‘new’. While it does mean universal, the Catholic Church is ‘universal’ and it’s the name of the one Church that existed since the first century. It was not ‘universal’ in the sense of multiple denominations.

**Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

kata holos
kat-ah’ hol’-os
Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.**

Protestants will argue that there were ‘many’ Churches, even during the time the New Testament letters and epistles were written. However, we see the same message taught to all the Churches of the New Testament.

Protestants also argue that the letters and epistles were circulated among those Churches, again establishing one message through all Churches.

When we use the term ‘Apostolic’, we have to realize it is based on the Apostles. No one can give an example of multiple messages from different Apostles.

There was one Church, with multiple locations.

One has to deny history, either Church or secular, to say otherwise. The reformation was the beginning of other Churches, with the reformers coming from the Catholic Church. So, all Protestant Churches have roots to the Catholic Church.

When the reformers started Churches they had the Bible, that came from the Catholic Church. The common beliefs between the denominations came from the Catholic Church. The differences arose through ‘new’ interpretations of scriptures. Now, there are multiple Churches with multiple doctrines, all based on someone’s ‘new’ interpretation. New denominations are still being started, as someone ‘receives’ a newer interpretation.

As for the Orthodox Church, they are not a ‘denomination’. They are Catholic, with true Apostolic authority. Some Protestants are quick to point out the differences between the two Churches, but this seems to be a justification of their own denomination, otherwise they would belong to one of the two ‘Catholic’ Churches. In other words, you cannot say the Catholic Church is incorrect because there is an Orthodox Church. If it were specifically so, one should belong to the Orthodox Church, since it was a part of the one Church for the first thousand years.

As some Protestants will quickly point out ‘other’ Churches from an earlier era, none will affliate themeselves with the theology of those ‘other’ Churches. Again, if one is unwilling to affliate themselves with one of those Churches, it has to be because of something they don’t agree with.

God did not give us a Church, that has existed since the beginning, that slipped into such grevious error, that it was invalid, leaving thousands of generations without a ‘pillar and ground’ of truth.or a place where the manifold wisdom of God maybe made known. That pillar and ground of truth shared one interpretation of scriptures, even through the reformation and present today. Remember, Jesus promised to be with us always, without gaps leaving some generations without truth. His sacrifice was for ALL.
 
I am catholic and orthodox but I am not a member of the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
 
I am excited to get these replies. I will ponder these thoughts.
In Him,
s
 
Many Orthodox/Conservative Lutherans hate the term Protestant and prefer to call themselves evangelical catholics.

Protestantism and even Lutheranism as it’s known today is very different compared to the early 1500’s.
 
Many Orthodox/Conservative Lutherans hate the term Protestant and prefer to call themselves evangelical catholics.

Protestantism and even Lutheranism as it’s known today is very different compared to the early 1500’s.
Protestant is derived from ‘protest’. Martin Luther protested against the Catholic Church and founded a ‘protest’ Church. Did he refer to this Church as an evangelical Catholic Church?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top