Can we discuss Judaism without the politics?

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The way we look at it, there never was a fall of Satan. The Satan is not even given a name, though the Talmud tells us to sympathize with him, for his role, per se, is to break the barrel but not spill any wine. Akin to causing a person to be tempted but then actually not sining. In Jewish tradition, there is no final confrontation between G-d and Satan for G-d controls all things. That was a really good question.
 
Can I make a statement about Jewish temple worship and synagogue worship?

I seems to me that the difference is similar to the difference between non-Catholic/non-Orthodox (Protestant/Evangelical) worship and Catholic worship.

In Synagogue worship services, you have Scripture, Sermon/Message, Song (with a Cantor). This seems to be to be equivalent to many Protestant/Evangelical worship services.

In Hebrew Temple worship, you may have all the elements (Scripture, Sermon, Song) above but you also had animal sacrifices and the sacred presence of God in the Holy of Holies. This seems comparable to me to Catholic worship in the sacrifice of the Mass where we have a Liturgy of the Word and a Liturgy of the Eucharist. In the Liturgy of Eucharist, we “behold the Lamb of God” who was sacrificed for the sins of the world and who inhabits the bread and wine which spiritually become His Body and Blood. We eat His Flesh and drink His Blood because he commanded it. He gave His all. Every tabernacle in every Catholic Church in the world has become a Tabernacle and a Holy of Holies where Almighty God is present in a holy manner unlike his presence anywhere else on earth.

Note: Eastern Orthodox would need to add their particular details about how it works for them.
 
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Indeed.

Like another WWII subject, not to be named, this was once one of my points of interest (now mostly faded, books packed away), and I posted a few times on it, on the old board, in response to a very similar accusation.

One can compare Hilberg’s figures, which he once adjusted, himself, after more study, with, say, Reitlinger’s, who reached a different total. Counted stuff in different ways, but reached a total estimate of deaths fairly close to each other.

The subject is not one on which a final, precise, definitive total can be reached; scholars differ. Scholarly differences differ from denial.
 
I know. I went several rounds with folk like that, back, I dunno, 10 years ago, maybe.

The total number of books accumulated for the library on the subject was around 50+. Which makes the subject one of interest, but not overwhelming interest, in my scale. Meaning I rarely buy more books on it, nor do I continue my reading on it, in those I have. Unlike other topics.
 
I couldn’t have said it better regarding oral tradition! To rely on the Written word alone is useless, there must be something oral to accompany it, it’s often mentioned by the prophets. Tell me, if it’s not much to ask, where can I find the Catholic oral tradition? Which book(s), and is there a mystical element (assuming so) as in Judaism’s Kabbalah? Thanks!
 
You are so right, many perished in the gas chambers of Nazi Germany, not just Jews. It’s tmr their voices were heard also.

All the best
 
They claim the crematoriums were like what we have today in the states, but they forget that these things were made more military purposes, and not mere disposal items, that’s how the Nazis could get rid of so many bodies so fast.
 
I haven’t had room for more books since around 20 years ago. Doesn’t stop me. I make bigger piles, rent more storage spaces, and wish I wasn’t too old to build the library addition I planned for 40 years.

On my most often posted on subject, I insist on a division into strictly historical and more obviously contentious sectors. I cover history.

And on previous threads on this subject, I went and looked. You were there.
 
Like I said, you deny our credibility when you say less than a million died. This in itself is denial of the truth, therefore, you’re wrong.
 
Rabbi said:
you deny our credibility when you say less than a million died.
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I don’t deny or affirm this. If this is the number the experts agree as the lowest possible estimate then I will have to defer to them. I was under the impression far more than a million died.
 
The powers that be in my house vies with me to buy the most books. I first met her in a library, 52 years ago.

Best thing I ever took out of a library.
 
No expert said anything of that nature, I got that notion from you. About 6 million died. That’s the estimate.
 
What about this, you name us a problem with the Shoah, like why you think less died, then we have something tangible to work with.
 
Rabbi said:
I got that notion from you.
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I really wanted to stop posting in this thread and on this topic, so why do you keep claiming I said things I didn’t? I have never discussed numbers. I have never doubted said numbers to be true. I am skeptical of any numbers as a default position (I am skeptical of everything as a default position), but since the overwhelming majority of experts and historians seem to agree within a specific range of numbers (~six million being the one I hear most often) I will defer to them as regards that topic.
Rabbi said:
like why you think less died, then we have something tangible to work with.
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I don’t think less died. I’m really not concerned with the historicity of the holocaust beyond mild skepticism of some of the wilder claims and also a mild distaste for most flat-out deniers. I made one small point, which was, in hindsight, unwise, at it was taken as denial and mitigation, when in reality it was more a point on the freedom of speech than anything else. If you’ll stop putting words and concepts in my mouth then I’ll stop defending myself and you can have your thread back. Deal?
 
@Zealot, one last question, okay?

I agree, there’s no point to free speech if you don’t have the right to express it.

I’d just like to know a specific detail you’re skeptical about. Then I’ll let you off and we can all part ways and not have anyone get ugly (I’m not picking on you here, we all can get ugly). Your deal is accepted. Just please let me know which part you’re unsure of, you don’t even have to stick around to see the refutation. I just want to know. Thank you.
 
I’m skeptical about the idea of mustache-twirling Nazi’s driving tanks over prisoners, some claims I hear about Dr. Mengele (I have the same skepticism for some claims about Japanese Unit 731), the idea that genocide of the “undesirables” was the original goal and intent, and actually the idea that gassing was the main cause of death at all (from what I understand even the historians don’t claim this, they suggest firing squad, starvation, disease, and other causes were the main causes of death, but the general public seems to think they were all gassed).

I’m not saying I flat-out disbelieve any of these things, but that I am skeptical of them.
 
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