Can we go back in time?

[Jennifer_G]

I grew up in the 80s (born in the '77, so I vaguely remember the 70s, and something about a president before Ronald Reagan. ). We have a big family, and it was large back then - grandparents, 3 other aunts and uncles, 3-5 cousins (at the time - now it’s 8, and some of my cousins have families, now). I remember going to Ocean City in our stationwagon with no air conditioning, and these little droplets of candy (assorted in a rainbow color fashion - popular during the 80s) on waxy paper. We didn’t have air-conditioning or a pool - except for a cheap plastic 3 foot ‘pool’ that we put up every summer - until 1988. The neighborhood kids and I would play on a makeshift slip-n-slide, a long piece of industrial plastic that my dad would bring home from work (having a long 120 foot side yard helps!), and squirt it with soap and water.

TV (in the early 80s) had Romper Room, Seasame Street, Reading Rainbow, and a host of other normal kids shows, plus the afternoon and Saturday dose of 1 hour of Hanna-Barbara cartoons (plus an anime or two that started coming out like Speed Racer, G-Force). Movies seemed cute and cuddly then, and much more family movies, too. TV shows weren’t racy like they are today.

I had a computer in the early 80s, too, of course, there was no Internet access yet - that was still exclusive to colleges and businesses at the time, and I even programmed my own fun.

My friends and I would occasionaly play a computer or Nintendo game, too, and see who could get the highest score. We usually played it for an hour or two before doing other more traditional stuff, like talking about school, playing outside, playing dress up, etc. (Amazingly, it was us girls in the neighborhood that enjoyed computer games, not the guys. )

 

[dwc]

Your statement is a perfect illustration of the effectiveness of the feminist propaganda offensive.

As someone who was once on the front lines, I can assure you that there has never been a more opportunistic scourge on womankind than this “movement”. As someone who participated enthusiastically in the “consciousness raising movement” (read: brain washing), I can guarantee you that women who were not at all dissastisfied with their lives were persuaded of their “oppression” and relentlessly evangelized until they were “convinced” of their victimhood at the hands of the “man”.

And while no one else may want to say it, I certainly will. Nothing good came from the feminist movement. Women, contrary to what you’ve been told (lies) were certainly able to work before Betty Friedan told them they had to in order to have value in society. My grandmother worked, my mom worked (for a time), my aunt had her own business. They had every choice available to them that we have today. I would argue they had more choices because they still had the respect of men - something lost in our society today.

 

[Catholic90]

Nothing good came from the feminist movement. Women, contrary to what you’ve been told (lies) were certainly able to work before Betty Friedan told them they had to in order to have value in society. My grandmother worked, my mom worked (for a time), my aunt had her own business. They had every choice available to them that we have today. I would argue they had more choices because they still had the respect of men - something lost in our society today.

I agree that not all that came from it was good. However, it DID open up doors of opportunity to women that had not been opened before. Sure, women could work - mostly nurses, teachers, and secretaries and the factory jobs. How many female doctors, lawyers, professional businesswomen, and engineers were there??? Those doors were closed pretty tightly. AND they get paid the same!!

What’s wrong with that???

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

OK I understand everything but there are two things I take issue with.

One: prayer in schools. People ARE allowed to pray in school (they can’t legally stop someone from praying, and I’ve even gone to a Bible study in a public school, but that’s because it was run by Christian friends of mine) but teachers aren’t allowed to INDOCTRINATE young children with their personal religious beliefs.

Really? Then what about the religion of Environmentalism? Conspiracy Theorism? I’ve got a friend whose history teacher teaches them nothing about history, but goes on and on about how 9/11 was a Bush-Cheney conspiracy.

They are given free reign to do this. But let someone mention God in a classroom? Out the door!

I’ve seen this happen far too many times.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I find your statements to be misogynistic. I wasn’t male bashing. I was making the point that women did not have many choices but to be a stay at home mom and not have a career. If a woman chooses that today, more power to her. I chose to go to college and now I get paid just the same as my male counterparts, thanks to the women’s rights movement. Now, I’m not saying it was all beneficial (i.e. abortion, birth control) but it was better than nothing.

Obviously, you did not know what I was talking about when I mentioned tips on being a good wife. If you think they are all good and true then I stand by my first sentence in this post.

I do know—that particular bunch of ‘tips’ was a JOKE. An internet joke. It’s old and tired by now.

And women have always had choices. Eve chose to eat the apple.

 

[Catholic90]

I do know—that particular bunch of ‘tips’ was a JOKE. An internet joke. It’s old and tired by now.

And women have always had choices. Eve chose to eat the apple.

Actually, you are wrong. Yes, it is on the internet, but the librarian at our school brought in an actual book that she had from when she was in school years ago and THOSE TIPS ARE IN THERE. I have seen them IN THE BOOK with my own eyes.

So, you are wrong. They are in fact real tips.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

My kids today have regular contact with their grandparents, extended relatives, and various people of all ages. I think that is one of the big pluses for this young generation. There was little mix of the generations when I grew up. There really were few retired people around.

It wasn’t until I reached my teenage years and began volunteering at my parish that I willingly associated with anyone older than me. My kids learned to be friends with people of all ages when they were still young.

That’s one aspect of the 1960’s I wouldn’t want to go back to: the isolation of the various generations from each other.

See, we never separated the generations, except when my mother had disagreements with her parents. Even then, my grandfather worked on the same block, in the store underneath where we lived. It was nothing for my grandfather, even if he and Mom were having one of their spats, to figure out when we had a day off school and take us out to lunch. There were at least three restaurants on that same block, and when it came to my grandfather’s relationship with us (she was more at war with her mother than father), there was a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. After my grandmother died (very sad, only 49, drank herself to death), my grandfather came every weekday morning for breakfast.

Some of my father’s family was in the area, and the rest was only 300 miles or so away. They came to the City at least once a year, if not more. And we all had to get together for at least Sunday dinner when that happened.

 

[Catholic90]

And women have always had choices.* Eve chose to eat the apple*.

Yes, the downfall of mankind was definitely all women’s fault. You are amazing (and not in a good way).

Sure women have had choices - limited choices. Their opportunities are MUCH broader now, and THAT IS GOOD. Women can be doctors, lawyers, CEOs, CFOs, accountants, and engineers, to name a few. No longer are they stuck in the secretarial pool or nursing cubicles. THEY HAVE OPTIONS if they want them. That was not always the case.

 

[StratusRose]

I do know—that particular bunch of ‘tips’ was a JOKE. An internet joke. It’s old and tired by now.

And women have always had choices. Eve chose to eat the apple.

Adam had that choice, too. Then he blamed it on Eve.

Don’t go there.

 

[StratusRose]

Yes, the downfall of mankind was definitely all women’s fault. You are amazing (and not in a good way).

Sure women have had choices - limited choices. Their opportunities are MUCH broader now, and THAT IS GOOD. Women can be doctors, lawyers, CEOs, CFOs, accountants, and engineers, to name a few. No longer are they stuck in the secretarial pool or nursing cubicles. THEY HAVE OPTIONS if they want them. That was not always the case.

Amen. I am SO glad we have women ob/gyns now.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

There was something good that came out of all that 60s liberation: Equal pay for equal work.

Yes, men, single or married, were paid on one scale. Women, single or married, when they worked, were paid on another scale.

And those statements on good wifely behavior DID come out of a marriage manual. I will research which one and let you know. Also, get your hands on a Betty Crocker Cookbook prior to 1965 (the ones form the 1950s are the best). It encourages women to wear pretty dresses, earrings, and put on make-up to clean the house, and make sure they all get sensible, but stylish shoes. They are also told to have a cocktail ready at the door when the husband comes home.

I’m here to tell you that women did not wear pretty dresses and sensible, but stylish shoes to clean house. I know that June Cleaver and Margaret Anderson perpetuated the myth of the “do-it-all” wife in high heels and pearls running the vacuum and ironing all the laundry. Even my Aunt Mary, who was the most stylish woman I knew, wore slacks or pedal-pushers, an old shirt, and tied a scarf around her hair to clean house. She usually performed this task barefoot, so as not to mark the freshly mopped floor too much. She did not wear make-up or earrnings for this task, but she did wear rubber gloves to protect her manicure, something my mother and the rest of my aunts did not have.

Scott Hahn in one of his books, I think Lord Have Mercy, points out it was Adam who blew the load on the first sin. He was in charge, and not only abdicated responsibility for putting his own mouth where it should not have been, but didn’t love his wife enough to the point where he threw her under the metaphorical bus when God asked him (Adam) about the whole matter (and it was only fruit, not necessarily an apple).

Dr. Hahn is pretty traditional.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I still believe feminism is right off Satan’s teleprompter and has done horrific damage to our society. I still believe women and men are different, created so by God, and that the media has so denigrated and trampled on the natural role of women that we can’t even see it for what it is any more.

I see not a single thing wrong with the values our country held dear in the 1950s. Were individual women unhappy and individual men ‘disconnected’ from their families because they refused to get in touch with the metrosexual within? Could be.

And please don’t wave the race card; there are those who will do that in any era, no matter what the circumstances.

Bishop Fulton J. Sheen won an Emmy. For a prime-time television series. What’s winning Emmys today?

The fact is that in the 1950s America was a far more moral and wholesome nation than it is today. Dispute it with personal observation if you like. Those of us who lived through it will still look to those days with longing, and want our young people to be able to experience a life without the ‘benefits’ of 24-hour internet porn.

 

[Kaninchen]

Somehow Jack Jones’ 1964 Grammy Award Winner seems to sum up a woman’s place in a thankfully lost age:

Wives And Lovers
(Burt Bacharach/Hal David)

Hey! Little Girl
Comb your hair, fix your makeup
Soon he will open the door
Don’t think because there’s a ring on your finger
You needn’t try anymore

For wives should always be lovers too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
I’m warning you…

Day after day
There are girls at the office
And men will always be men
Don’t send him off with your hair still in curlers
You may not see him again

For wives should always be lovers too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
He’s almost here…

Hey! Little girl
Better wear something pretty
Something you’d wear to go to the city and
Dim all the lights, pour the wine, start the music
Time to get ready for love
Time to get ready
Time to get ready for love

 

[SMHW]

In any case, it seems that ‘going back in time’ needs to be clearly spelled out.

Few mothers worked outside the home when I was growing up. When my parents grew up it was very common. My father’s parents both worked to support the family. His aunt next door was paid to care for my father and his siblings. My mother comes from a farming family. Everyone works in a farming family. Sort of ‘at home’ but not ‘in house’. The community I live in now has a mix of working Moms and stay-at-home parents. Most families work out schedules so sometimes Dad is home, sometimes Mom is home, and sometimes the kids have other care.

It was uncommon to grow up with extended family when I was a child. (The few unusual types with extended family were typically Italian, for what that’s worth. But my best friend who’s father was Italian saw extended family less than I did.) Nowdays almost everyone I know has at least some extended family nearby. This whole extended family nearby business has always been changing, at least in the United States.

There have always been stay-in-the-neighborhood types and pioneer types. A pioneer family generally has a very different experience of and outlook towards family, school, government, society, and Church than a stay-in-the-old-neighborhood family. The children of such families may or may not follow in the parents’ footsteps.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

The 1950s will not be making a comeback, nor will the rest of the past years.

They are gone. They are past.

I lived through them, and have abosultely no desire to go back to them. Maybe some day there will be anachronistic societies for the 1950s, the way there are for those who would like to harken back to the Renaissance of the 14th through early 17th centuries. Not for me, any more than the mud and “joints” for sale at the Renaissance Faire.

How one lives one’s life is not about “going back” to a particular time or place and living out that era. If one wants that, one can join an Amish community where it is strict enough not to use certain inventions that came along prior to 1830- and those communities change, too.

The idea is not to replicate those past years. The idea is to take from them the values that were useful and bring them into the present and future.

It was never the natural role of women to wear high heels or sensible but stylish shoes to clean the house, to be subservient to men to the point they could only stay home and be a sort of barmaid and housekeeper to men. It was never a natural role of women to receive less pay for work equal to men’s work. The Catholic Church has never taught this.

Now then- The idea that women can just go off and enjoy themselves sexually with the first guy who comes along without responsibility and kill any babies that might result from this- very bad idea, immoral in fact.

It is also a very bad notion that men are all evil slavedrivers, who see women as nothing more than sexual objects, or combo barmaids and housekeepers.

Therefore: Promotion of family values through such activities as families dining together, spending time together, watching children’s intake of TV, PC, and consumerism- Still a very good idea. One gender becoming dominant over another, or not allowed simple human rights such as career choice or equal pay for equal work- not even a Catholic idea. “Submission” and interdependence never included domination!

 

[dwc]

Regarding the “tips for wives” – my mom saved a bunch of 1950s women’s magazines. One of them contained these tips. It’s not a myth, it’s what women were told back then. I remember in the 60s being a little kid and my mom washing us and changing us into little dresses and picking up all our toys so that everything was perfect when dad got home from work.

As someone who participated enthusiastically in the “consciousness raising movement” (read: brain washing), I can guarantee you that women who were not at all dissastisfied with their lives were persuaded of their “oppression” and relentlessly evangelized until they were “convinced” of their victimhood at the hands of the “man”.

This would mean that there were thousands upon thousands of women who were so weak minded they couldn’t tell if they were really happy or not. I find that hard to believe.

In my family my mom and aunts would have been your targeted audience. They all remained faithful Catholic wives and mothers and would never condone abortion, ABC or sexual permisiveness. However, they have repeatedly told my sisters, cousins and me that we were lucky to be born when we were. They say we should be grateful to have education and choices in career and when to marry and whether to stay home or not. They say it just wasn’t the same for them – there was no question a girl would finish high school, maybe work as a clerk or secretary until she married and then she would stay home and raise her family.

They say if a family had any money for college they sent their sons, not their daughters. In the fifties and early 60s some families would send their daughters to college to get their Mrs. degree – sending them to university was a way to ensure they would meet and marry an up and coming young man. They talk about the utter panic that set in if a woman wasn’t married by her mid-twenties. My mom admitted that she wasn’t sure my dad was the right choice, but she was 23 and not getting any younger, so she accepted his proposal.

Finally, they say we should be grateful for our husbands and marriages – that we should appreciate having a husband who is a true partner, who talks to us about decisions, who is involved raising the children and who helps around the house. That’s a pretty telling commentary on the state of their own marriages.

Nothing good came from the feminist movement. Women, contrary to what you’ve been told (lies) were certainly able to work before Betty Friedan told them they had to in order to have value in society. My grandmother worked, my mom worked (for a time), my aunt had her own business. They had every choice available to them that we have today.

As others have pointed out, this is just wrong. Look at the number of women working in fields other than teaching, nursing, clerking or secretarial. Look at the number of women in college, or in professional fields. There is no comparison.

Yes, during WWI and WWII women worked outside the home, because all the men were gone at war. Look at the numbers before, in between and after the wars. There was no equal opportunity.

I would argue they had more choices because they still had the respect of men - something lost in our society today.

Men were certainly more courteous back then – but is superficial courtesy the same as respect? I think men respected women who stayed within certain perimeters.

I feel very respected by my husband, brother, male colleagues and most men with whom I come in contact. I think women and men are now respected on an individual basis on how they conduct themselves, how they behave and on their achievements in any particular field. That’s not a bad thing. The pop culture denigrates human beings in general, and some women choose to disrespect themselves and not encourage respect from others. I don’t think that translates into a blanket “men don’t respect women.” .

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Somehow Jack Jones’ 1964 Grammy Award Winner seems to sum up a woman’s place in a thankfully lost age:

Actually, I don’t think the song is all bad:
“Don’t think because there’s a ring on your finger
You needn’t try anymore”

Lots of people think once they are married things can go to pot, they don’t need to keep taking care of the little details they did when they were dating/engaged. There is nothing wrong with advising women to try to look nice for their husbands etc. Of course, this is two-sided, husbands need to do the same, and need to woo their wives like they used to too. The song does raise good points, men at work will see other women in nice clothes and smelling nice, etc. Its not as easy for a wife with kids at home to do it, but an effort should be put forth to do what you can to look pleasant for your husband when he comes home (or vice-versa ). Lol, I know its not easy for pregnant women with morning sickness and little kids, but like I said, one can make the effort.

 

[edwest2]

Your statement is a perfect illustration of the effectiveness of the feminist propaganda offensive.

As someone who was once on the front lines, I can assure you that there has never been a more opportunistic scourge on womankind than this “movement”. As someone who participated enthusiastically in the “consciousness raising movement” (read: brain washing), I can guarantee you that women who were not at all dissastisfied with their lives were persuaded of their “oppression” and relentlessly evangelized until they were “convinced” of their victimhood at the hands of the “man”.

And while no one else may want to say it, I certainly will. Nothing good came from the feminist movement. Women, contrary to what you’ve been told (lies) were certainly able to work before Betty Friedan told them they had to in order to have value in society. My grandmother worked, my mom worked (for a time), my aunt had her own business. They had every choice available to them that we have today. I would argue they had more choices because they still had the respect of men - something lost in our society today.

Thank you very much for posting this. By turning women into us vs them/men, it hurt more than it helped. I encourage all men and women to look at any cause they are involved with and ask themselves: Is this going to help, heal, reconcile and solve anything? Will it bring about peaceful cooperation and lasting stability between the two parties involved? Is it being conducted in a respectful, considerate and nonconfrontational manner? If we are to call ourselves civilized, we need to be civil toward each other.

My mother had the respect of men and she respected them. She did, however, avoid anyone who was trying to take advantage of her.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

To further illustrate that Feminism was a planned disaster, I invite everyone to read that Betty Friedan, author of the Feminie Mystique, lied about who she was and about her intentions.

writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/friedan-per-horowitz.html

You may want to get the book mentioned in the article.

Manipulating people is wrong.

By the way, my mother looked great in dresses and high heels but did not wear them around the house, and especially when shoveling coal, painting, doing carpentry (yes, my Dad did help her) and other things. Remove the housewife image you saw on television and pick up a few old family photos, especially showing the park or other outdoor activities. Don’t forget that those who made dresses and high heels wanted to sell them, so they marketed an “image” of what the average housewife looked like. More manipulation.

God bless,
Ed

 

[blessedtoo]

This would mean that there were thousands upon thousands of women who were so weak minded they couldn’t tell if they were really happy or not. I find that hard to believe.

I did not say “weak minded”. In the same way militant activist groups have convinced the majority of the population that abortion is just okey dokey (when a mere 40 years ago it was unthinkable) and that homosexual marriage is a right (when sodomy was actually illegal in all states a mere 40 years ago - are the majority of Americans weak minded?), so too were women indoctrinated with lies in the 60’s and 70’s. Coupled with the “hippie” revolution, the confusion about the war, the changes in the Church (VatII), birth control, etc., it did not require much (just constant repetition) to convince women that the grass was greener elsewhere.

In my family my mom and aunts would have been your targeted audience. They all remained faithful Catholic wives and mothers and would never condone abortion, ABC or sexual permisiveness.

My parents as well held fast to their traditions. My sisters and I were the target audience. And like dominoes, our entire generation (with a few exceptions) fell like dominoes.

However, they have repeatedly told my sisters, cousins and me that we were lucky to be born when we were. They say we should be grateful to have education and choices in career and when to marry and whether to stay home or not. They say it just wasn’t the same for them – there was no question a girl would finish high school, maybe work as a clerk or secretary until she married and then she would stay home and raise her family.

And this is terrible because…?

They say if a family had any money for college they sent their sons, not their daughters

Because it was understood that the man would be the provider in the family.
.

In the fifties and early 60s some families would send their daughters to college to get their Mrs. degree – sending them to university was a way to ensure they would meet and marry an up and coming young man. They talk about the utter panic that set in if a woman wasn’t married by her mid-twenties. My mom admitted that she wasn’t sure my dad was the right choice, but she was 23 and not getting any younger, so she accepted his proposal.

And? How many folks today, who are “sure” they have met their “soul mates”, end up divorced just a few years later. There is absolutely no dispute about the percentage of divorce in the 50’s and 60’s compared to today. It could not have been all bad, right?

Finally, they say we should be grateful for our husbands and marriages – that we should appreciate having a husband who is a true partner, who talks to us about decisions, who is involved raising the children and who helps around the house. That’s a pretty telling commentary on the state of their own marriages.

And you attribute the evolution of marriage to the feminist movement? Contrary to popular belief, the feminists goal was to destroy marriage, not strengthen it. If you have reaped some benefit of meeting and marrying a sensitive and conscientious man, do not credit feminism for that.