Can we have a frank discussion about music in Mass?

[ProVobis]

I thought Richard Proulx and Peter Jones did a good job but then the music became obsoleted with a new translation.

 

[rondirect]

Perhaps you want to speak to a Spiritual Director about the specifics of your question.

Why? I know you mean well, but your link says it all and what the Catholic church believes in with regards to the importance of music and singing; you know it, I know it, those in ministry know it. It’s too bad that the people do not know what the documents of the church they love say. I sometimes think that so many Catholics attend Mass to receive the true body and blood of our Lord and all the “other stuff” is just their to add fluff and waste their time. Instead of getting upset over the looks of the interiors of churches, let’s worry more about what the Catholic church requests of us at Mass. This thread is so disheartening to read such things.

Why do people ask, “why do we sing the Gloria?” GIRM excerpt:

GIRM 53. The Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) is a most ancient and venerable hymn by which the Church, gathered in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other.

Let’s face it: Those who wish it be recited or omitted for that matter, really think it is too long and want a Mass no longer than 45 minutes. The same people find the the Liturgy of the Word and hearing the Word of God is not Catholic, but for those who are “Bible thumpers” that belong in a nondenominational church.

What ever happened to us spending a mere hour in church worshiping our Lord in Word, song, and Eucharist?

 

[rondirect]

We, as self-trained musicians in my circle, say after we totally botch a piece of music: “Well, that was good enough for Catholics”. guitar:

I know you know that we are in ministry to provide well rehearsed music in order to provide the most solid leadership to those you serve, but I get your point.

 

[andderson]

The departure from well-rehearsed music usually involves a capo.

 

[babochka]

That Eastern Church is breathtaking! Although I don’t know how fair it is to take the most bland, uninspiring Latin rite parish one can find and compare it to beautiful Eastern rite parish. (But I understand your pain!)

I agree.

I don’t mind plain churches with beautiful architecture, but to design a church that is so stark seems so odd to me. And the lack of a crucifix is troubling.

This is a Ukrainian parish near me. (It is a converted garage.) If anyone thinks they need a better church, consider a contribution to the building fund. Charityadvantage - Deactivated Account

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[rondirect]

It is a challenge, but doable. I will say that I found most “Glorias” done rather poorly, but I like Mass of Renewal.

Stephan did a great job on the Mass of Renewal in my opinion too. We have been singing this one a long time now and the people sing it nicely; through-composed it takes the edge off those who think the Gloria is too long when repeating a “refrain.” Previously, we sang the “Mass of Christ the Savior.” I think the people preferred that one and am considering going back to it for awhile. Schutte was smart: he rewrote the Gloria to be sung either through-composed or with a “refrain.” Smart.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

I love our parish, it is a very traditional parish, but we have to commute a bit. I don’t have a car at the moment so I have to rely on my husband and his schedule just to make it to mass every Sunday. We are in Britain and local churches here don’t really have music ministry the same way Americans generally do.

I only offered “personal preferences” and “personal experience” because in my experience when discussing the liturgy online, any discussion outside of this scope has largely been fruitless. The long and short of it is that I support traditional liturgies and music because the mass should be sacred and reverent and I believe the documentation supports this. It IS about God, and not about us. That said, people start getting into debates about what has "the qualities proper to genuine sacred music” (SC) and I’ve never seen anyone agree on that, ever.

But given your need to assume my mindset, extensively scrutinize what was originally just a short and small off the cuff post and insinuate that I really only feel that the music is about “me” – I don’t feel comfortable discussing this with you further and am not going to continue in this thread any longer. Have a nice day.

 

[Peeps]

I think there might be a communication issue between me and you. I didn’t realize you live in Great Britain–having never been there before, it’s a real possibility that I have no idea how things are there or how people react to controversial issues.

I live in the Midwestern U.S., where we enjoy talking things out, even if the conversation gets “hot.” We strive for understanding of each other’s differences.

I did not mean to insinuate that you feel that “the music is about me.” If that’s how it came across, I apologize.

Please consider checking out my thread about having an option to attend a parish that is abuse-free and liturgically-correct. It makes me sad when people feel “stuck” in a parish that isn’t a good fit. I feel that Catholics should be able to attend a parish that is a good fit for them, and it sounds like you have done so. Godspeed to you…

 

[Ardent_Fire]

No worries. I don’t think you meant any harm and it probably was just a misunderstanding. Sometimes at times like this, the internet is not as easy to discuss things as they are face to face!

 

[pnewton]

The departure from well-rehearsed music usually involves a capo.

I fail to see the logic in this statement.

 

[andderson]

There is nothing that will mess up a song faster than if you do not have the capo on the proper fret. It can really throw off the singers.

 

[rondirect]

I fail to see the logic in this statement.

Not much logic about it; just a fact. We were talking about being well rehearsed, but have that one guitarist place a capo just slightly off center and you got problems. It’s the easy out for some: put the capo on and play the easy chords. I, more than once, gave that look to a guitarist and off came the capo and we were back in tune with the other instruments!

 

[MiserereMei25]

But didn’t that backfire a bit?

 

[MiserereMei25]

But this is not land and whitewashed. This is reverent. You can just tell by looking at it. it’s simple but bueautiful

 

[pnewton]

I, more than once, gave that look to a guitarist and off came the capo and we were back in tune with the other instruments!

I see. Thanks to both of you for the clarification. We do good to have just one musician, except for special occasions. I usually just give the actual key for those, and let everyone figure out what’s best. The piano is electronic and has the same issue, as you can change semitones up and down.

 

[rondirect]

But didn’t that backfire a bit?

It what ways do you think changing to the vernacular backfired?

 

[PeterT]

PeterT:

FloridaCatholic:

Right but the church has to meet the needs of its people though, right? At least somewhat? That’s why the liturgy was changed into the vernacular

It was changed to the vernacular so the laity could more fully engage and participate in the Mass and therefore worship God at Mass more fully and completely.

But didn’t that backfire a bit?

Not really. It just didn’t improve the participation and the engagement in the Mass by the laity as much as it had been hoped that it would.

Many of the laity were very passive while attending Mass pre-Vatican II. Many remained passive after Vatican II. The lesson that should be learned: changing the liturgy is no substitute for solid catechesis and better faith formation of the laity.

 

[MiserereMei25]

I liked the way you put that. I think you are actually correct, if I dont say so myself…

 

[Gorgias]

Again, I am going to an Eastern Catholic Liturgy this weekend and probably more often because I need raw Catholicism. Not Mid-Century Catholicism

Eastern
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

What?!?!?!? They have electric lights? And heat? How can you handle all that modernism?!?!?

 

[MiserereMei25]

There really are some parishes that really do mimic failed Tetris attempts. Our temples of worship should reflect the heavenly courts.