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DL82
Guest
Is it possible to have too much devotion to the Passion and Crucifixion of Our Lord, or to His Cross?
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LilyM
Guest
Absolutely impossible.
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Te_Deum
Guest
Did not Saint Paul preach Christ Crucified?
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odhiambo
Guest
Not at all.
One can never have too much devotion to the Passion and the Crucifixion of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is like saying that one is praying too much and yet the reallity is that even if we were to pray constantly, it would never be too much.
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DL82
Guest
Perhaps I should rephrase this - can we have too much veneration for the sufferings of Christ in His Passion and Death? I know of some truly gruesome and grotesque meditations on the Passion that just seem to me to be mawkish in the veneration they give to the wounds and blood and pain Our Lord experienced.
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laszlo
Guest
This was important in the context that Christ the crucified is stumbling block for the Jews and stupidity for the gentiles. Neither St Paul wanted, nor we want to define ourselves by primarily by negatives.
St Paul preached and we believe in Christ
Phil 2:[6] Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. [8] He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. [9] For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: [10] That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:
All elements are equally important:
- emptying Himself from th form of God and being one of us
- humbling Himself in the most shameful death
- being exalted by God
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Te_Deum
Guest
The Passion and Death of Our Lord and Saviour is not a negative.
I may be misunderstanding this but are you saying Christ ceased to be God when He took upon Himself our human nature?
Being devoted to one element over others is not wrong. The Carmelite and Dominican Orders have their own special missions in the world, different focuses etc. and they do not lessen or detract from each other. Likewise being specifically devoted to one aspect of Our Lord over another does not lessen or take anything away from Him.
Some find more spiritual aid in contemplating His Passion, some in His birth etc. It’s just the way men work.
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Monica4316
Guest
No
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Monica4316
Guest
No I don’t think we can have too much veneration for Jesus’ sufferings. In any case, all our understandings of it would fall short of the reality.
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TimothyH
Guest
One could argue that any veneration of the suffering and death of Christ is too much only in the absence of the ressurection.
But Jesus walked out of the tomb. We have to always keep that in mind.
Without the ressurection, His suffering and death is just a sad story in some old book. But in venerating the suffering and death of Christ, we venerate his ressurection as well. That’s the whole point.
-Tim-
But Jesus walked out of the tomb. We have to always keep that in mind.
Without the ressurection, His suffering and death is just a sad story in some old book. But in venerating the suffering and death of Christ, we venerate his ressurection as well. That’s the whole point.
-Tim-
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
Nope
"For I did not judge it well to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and him crucified"–1 Corinthians 2:2
Why Saint Paul?
Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen replies: Because ;
“The cross is not something that has happened; the Crucifixion is something that is happening. It can be found at any place and at any hour in the human race.” -Archbishop Sheen.
The Sacrifice on the Cross exists outside of time and space. When you go to Mass you are transported to Calvary and you are truly in the presence of Christ on the Cross. If anyone here wants to be with Christ on Mt. Calvary all they need to do is go to Mass and they will be there with our Blessed Mother and all of the angels and the saints.
"If we knew the value of the Mass, we would die of joy." — The Cure d’Ars
Since there is no such thing as too many Masses there likewise can never be such a thing as too much devotion to the Passion and Crucifixion of Our Lord.
"But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his bruises we are healed." --Isaiah 53:5
The more we know about Christs wounds and Passion the more we grow to love our Lord and persevere for Him. Every drop of blood and wound Christ suffered is a mark of love for us who are responcible for His suffering. As long as we are sinners we have recorse to Christs Passion and Crucifixion. If anything I feel we have downplayed the Passion our Lord suffered for us.
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firstmode
Guest
The Catholics in the Philippines do!
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
The Church frownes on this and it is at best evidence of Catholics practicing a type of devotion that is not Catholic. I personally believe this type of thing is an insult to Christ .
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laszlo
Guest
I am quoting St Paul. He did not pretended to understand the mystery of incarnation, neither do I. I simply state the equal importance of the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and the role of Holy Spirit. And also state that we are limited beings, sticking to one let the others suffer.
We had to live balanced life. It is possible that individuals or small groups prefer particular elements from the mysteries of our faith, but this is not for the majority.
The question was can we abuse the emphasis on the shameful death of Christ? And the clear answer is, YES. The whole early Protestantism with the ‘Sola fide’ and ‘Sin boldly’ is based on the overemphasizing the propitiatory effect of the Cross.
We are Catholic, universal: for everybody, and for the fullness. We need the balanced fullness of the mysteries.
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Monica4316
Guest
yes the Church doesn’t approve of this because it’s too extreme.
but meditation on Christ’s sufferings - that can’t be extreme.
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Monica4316
Guest
hmm… as Catholics, we DO believe in the full propitiatory effect of the Cross. The Protestants were wrong not because they over-emphasized the Cross, (if anything they under emphasized it by getting rid of the Mass, which is the same Sacrifice) - but because they over-emphasized faith vs works. But Catholics also believe that all grace, including the grace to do good works, comes from the Cross.
The Saints all focused on the Passion…
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Te_Deum
Guest
This is why we should turn to Mary as our example of living a Christian life. She suffered with Our Lord as He sacrificed Himself on the Holy Cross. Her Immaculate Heart was pierced with a sword at the time of His Passion. She suffered the crucifixion with Him.
But all this happened internally within her soul as she knelt at the Holy Cross. She is an example for us to foster internal participation in all aspects of our prayer life.
But all this happened internally within her soul as she knelt at the Holy Cross. She is an example for us to foster internal participation in all aspects of our prayer life.
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firstmode
Guest
I wish the Pope would send high ranking cardinals to these lands on these occasions and tell them to stop on the order of Rome and the Roman Pontiff.
Why do they let this continue without discipline being dispense upon these diocese?
Why do they let this continue without discipline being dispense upon these diocese?
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firstmode
Guest
Why does the pope not stop this?
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Chris_McAvoy
Guest
Yes we can have too much focus on the humanity of Christ and become like humanists.
Christ ultimately conquered all death by his death and brought new life and is God as well.
One must keep a balanced approach.
The Latin west in the late middle ages, before the reformation, from 1300-1600 was overly emphasizing the humanity of christ and his suffering.
However, that being said…the pre-and post reformation western church was certainly still a healthier church than we have today…and some of that overemphasis that existed than may in fact be stronger now, especially amongst the protestants.
So yes, I think it is a problem and has not been fully overcome.
The second vatican council’s aftermath did in fact diminish some of the emphasis on his suffering, however, they went too far.
The balance is a challenge for the west. The east has done a better job there.
Christ ultimately conquered all death by his death and brought new life and is God as well.
One must keep a balanced approach.
The Latin west in the late middle ages, before the reformation, from 1300-1600 was overly emphasizing the humanity of christ and his suffering.
However, that being said…the pre-and post reformation western church was certainly still a healthier church than we have today…and some of that overemphasis that existed than may in fact be stronger now, especially amongst the protestants.
So yes, I think it is a problem and has not been fully overcome.
The second vatican council’s aftermath did in fact diminish some of the emphasis on his suffering, however, they went too far.
The balance is a challenge for the west. The east has done a better job there.
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