Can we please be more Charitable to other Religions and people here?

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New here, I am picking up attitudes that you can cut with a knife. They come to vent. There is nothing that can be said to alleviate that. I don’t like non-Catholics using our forum to thread a discussion among themselves.

It reminds me of my grandmother…from the hill country…still have the letter she wrote me about my aunt and her friend coming over to my grandmother’s house. They walked in and just sat there talking to themselves, and then walked out.
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Yeah I have seen it too. I think I have been the victim of it. It isn’t fair. Sooooooooooo, we agree then that it doesn’t work to get worked up? Can we agree that it isn’t the utilitarian thing to do show our anger? We have to be on our guard for an entire conversation, knowing that there are vipers who will pounce at the first opportunity to show that our tone has a note of meanness in it. I am not here to just be right for myself. I want to persuade. I want to change people’s minds. Of course the Spirit of God must be present, and I don’t think He is prone to honor the efforts of those who think it is okay to violate the Church’s teachings about how to deal with the scornful.

I don’t waste time when I perceive someone is a fool because to do so is unproductive and even harmful to me. Why mess with people of corrupt hearts and minds? It doesn’t help them or us. I am resolved under most conditions not to condescend to speak harshly to a grownup, an adult over whom I have no authority.
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And I have seen it too - very recently, in fact. I have been the victim of it, just as you. But how do you deal with someone who continues to insult, to take bits of posts out of context, and to try to turn others against you?
 
VetA said:
i never stop hearing people whining about charity, so please explain to me what it is. because i am not quite sure of the definition
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Charity, responding with Love.

For example, “do not use uncharitable comments”.

I’m trying to say that we have to respond with Love and respect, but what the others have said is true. We must defend the Faith.

Just because the beliefs of others are wrong*, doesn’t mean we can insult them, or be harsh in anyway.
  • (It was a bit hard to say that the beliefs of others are wrong, without sounding disrespectful.)
(can someone help me with that?)
 
SirThomasMore said:
I believe that the word “charity” is not the issue. Charity simply means
  1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
  2. Something given to help the needy; alms.
  3. Benevolence or generosity toward others or toward humanity.
But it does not mean always being nice or ignoring false prophets and teachings. Was Jesus charitable when he cleaned the Temple? Was Peter charitable when he was lied to about money?

We are called to battle:

10 Finally, brethren, be strengthened in the Lord, and in the might of his power.
11 Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil.
12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.
13 Therefore take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of justice,
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace:
16 In all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one.
17 And take unto you the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit (which is the word of God).

When we see the false prophets and the false gods of Islam, Mormonism, Jehova Witness, etc., we are not to act as if what they say is true. We are to stand firm, correct them…for THAT is charity…to give them the gift of TRUTH. To not give in to the false gospels and false teachings.

When we proclaim truth without wavering, we are being our most charitable…
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I have trouble with Proclaiming The Truth, and I am blaming only myself.

For example, I Know that paganism is wrong, and false. I would find it hard to tell someone who is a pagan that it is wrong, because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings or disrespect their beliefs. Now I know more, because of everyone’s replys my understanding is better. (But why would you give up on someone who hates The Church? There is still hope right?)

It is strange. I don’t want to disrespect their beliefs, but I don’t want ot respect it either.

I usually struggle with whether or not I should capitalize the word paganism. because I don’t respect it, but I don’t want to disrespect what someone says is their religion. ( I even had a little (very small) trouble on whether I should call it a religion).

Maybe I am being overly scrupulous.
Is it a sin to respect a false belief or religion?
 
Perhaps I am different than most but I don’t think strong statements are inherently uncharitable. If you mean insulting the poster on a personal level, well that’s one thing and would, in fact, be uncharitable, but calling them out on bad logic or a false representation of the Church is not uncharitable in my opinion.

If they come to a Catholic forum and berate us for “Praying to statues” or “Putting Mary ahead of God” then I am not going to stand by… If you come here with a baseball bat and start smashing things like a petulant child, then taking the bat away from them and grabbing them by the shirt collar to stop their little tantrum is, in fact, pretty charitable.

I’ve never gone to a Mormon, Atheist, Evangelical (Insert contrasting viewpoint here) forum and insulted them, telling them they were wrong and evil… if I had they would have every right to defend themselves.
 
Angel7 said:
Charity, responding with Love.

For example, “do not use uncharitable comments”.

I’m trying to say that we have to respond with Love and respect, but what the others have said is true. We must defend the Faith.

Just because the beliefs of others are wrong*, doesn’t mean we can insult them, or be harsh in anyway.
  • (It was a bit hard to say that the beliefs of others are wrong, without sounding disrespectful.)
(can someone help me with that?)
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Angel 7,

By adhering to the teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, we imply that where others differ with us, we think they are wrong. But we can believe that they are wrong in ways that do not imply that they are stupid or evil for doing so. Ordinarily, popular error, that which has stood the test of time is very consistent and appealing to the intellect without any obvious fallacies. I think most of the well-known are heretics are brilliant. I am less certain about whether they were agents of the devil and wicked. But in discourse with others we certainly may give them the benefit of the doubt as to their motives for belief. Usually, they are attached to a view that from a certain perspective is very appealing.

It does no good to tell a Presbyterian, well catechized in Reformed theology that Calvin was crazy or didn’t know the Bible. They know better than that. We can try to see why Calvin taught as he did. I truly respect the intellects of the Reformation very highly. Many biblical doctrines turn on slight nuances such as whether or not the author was speaking literally or in metaphors. By seeing that, we can see how easily someone else might think that the Lord’s Supper (as they call it) is symbolic, or that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament have a continuing primary application to the physical offspring of Abraham. We need to go down their intellectual path and we will easily respect them while pointing out that the only way to resolve such questions is to identify the visible Church of which Christ is Head which has a continuous pedigree of successors to the Apostles unto this day.

I could honestly tell a Protestant that if the Catholic Church taught Evangelical doctrine, I would believe it. I don’t find their doctrine to be absurd, only heretical. I hope that helps. We need not feign respect. We can HAVE REAL respect while explaining what they are missing as non-Catholics and why we reject their positions.
 
Yes, we all should work for respect. But sometimes those demanding respect are the same ones who believe the Catholic Church is the great abomination and all else after them are also abominations.
 
This isn’t a rebuttal to anybody but an interesting part of history that falls along the lines of this thread with regards to St. Nicholas:
Bishop Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) where the Church Fathers debated with Arius on the divinity of Jesus Christ. A possibly apocryphal story of the council has St. Nicholas slapping Arius (subsequently dubbed by the Church Fathers as the “Arch-Heretic”) after he presented his arguments against the divinity of Jesus Christ. He was kicked out of the council but returned the next day due to the reported intercession of the Virgin Mary who told the Church Fathers that St. Nicholas acted out of love for her Son.
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Just a thought. Pax†
 
Saint Nicholas is my patron (my picture is that of Saint Nicholas).

I love that story about Arius!
 
RoryMcKenzie56 said:
Angel 7,

By adhering to the teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, we imply that where others differ with us, we think they are wrong. But we can believe that they are wrong in ways that do not imply that they are stupid or evil for doing so. Ordinarily, popular error, that which has stood the test of time is very consistent and appealing to the intellect without any obvious fallacies. I think most of the well-known are heretics are brilliant. I am less certain about whether they were agents of the devil and wicked. But in discourse with others we certainly may give them the benefit of the doubt as to their motives for belief. Usually, they are attached to a view that from a certain perspective is very appealing.

It does no good to tell a Presbyterian, well catechized in Reformed theology that Calvin was crazy or didn’t know the Bible. They know better than that. We can try to see why Calvin taught as he did. I truly respect the intellects of the Reformation very highly. Many biblical doctrines turn on slight nuances such as whether or not the author was speaking literally or in metaphors. By seeing that, we can see how easily someone else might think that the Lord’s Supper (as they call it) is symbolic, or that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament have a continuing primary application to the physical offspring of Abraham. We need to go down their intellectual path and we will easily respect them while pointing out that the only way to resolve such questions is to identify the visible Church of which Christ is Head which has a continuous pedigree of successors to the Apostles unto this day.

I could honestly tell a Protestant that if the Catholic Church taught Evangelical doctrine, I would believe it. I don’t find their doctrine to be absurd, only heretical. I hope that helps. We need not feign respect. We can HAVE REAL respect while explaining what they are missing as non-Catholics and why we reject their positions.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. I almost converted to Presbyterianism and Protestant doctrines, for the most part, are NOT crazy. They are very logical, from a certain perspective appealing, and they make sense. I have real respect for Protestants. In way, that’s why Protestantism is so dangerous; it teaches heresies from a perspective that isn’t obviously evil or wrong. It’s the classic proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing.
 
St. John the Evangelist would always leave the public baths when known heretics came in.
 
Angel7 said:
I have noticed that when someone is defending Mormonism and Islam there are several uncharitable comments made at them. It surprises me how someone could things that are offensive and disrespectful for their beliefs. As Christians we must respond with Love … always. Charity doesn’t stop online.

So next time someone is talking about something which is wrong or against The Church. Lets still respond with love.
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The problem here is that even when you simply state the facts clearly, they accuse us dissenters of being “anti-Mormon” and of persecuting them. Reality isn’t reality any more, it’s only the perception of reality that seems to count.
 
Angel7 said:
Charity, responding with Love.

For example, “do not use uncharitable comments”.

I’m trying to say that we have to respond with Love and respect, but what the others have said is true. We must defend the Faith.

Just because the beliefs of others are wrong*, doesn’t mean we can insult them, or be harsh in anyway.
  • (It was a bit hard to say that the beliefs of others are wrong, without sounding disrespectful.)
(can someone help me with that?)
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so thats what people mean… well sorry i have not been loving with my responses, thanks for the quick and to the point answer!
 
Saintlucy said:
Are we meant to ignore blatant and insulting things being said about our Lady, our faith, or the Sacraments and put up with obvious imposters posing as clergy. Yes we all strive to be humble and to guide the mistaken but sometimes we have to stand up and be counted in this world. The martyrs did. We are called to be witnesses to the truth as Christ our Lord was.
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I agree with Lucy.
This is a Catholic Answers forum - not Mormon, Atheist, Heretical, Islam. SSPX or any other Faith.
People who write to confuse, or harm others on this site should not be handled with kid gloves. They should get what they deserve. Jesus was angry with the money changers in the Temple
However we must be kind and charitable to those who are truly seeking information on the Catholic Faith.

Correct answers are in the CCC, 2nd Ed, the Roman Missal, and Canon Law. These are the tools that the Church has given us.
We must be humble not proud. None of us have all the answers, so don’t be afraid to look answers up prior to posting.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
or
usccb.org/catechism/text/
 
My only claim is to be a member of the Body of Christ and so the Holy Spirit has guided me not to become a member of any church lest my work be affected by those would claim I have a doctrinal axe to grind.

As regards attacks on us are we not to turn the other cheek or carry the burden another mile?

When we are attacked are we not to respond with love thus heaping hot coals on the heads of those who attack us?

When put to the ultimate test did Jesus say we are to fight or die for our faith?

When I was in the military I spend 3 years in Asia most of it in SE Asia where I was over awed by the grinding poverty of too many peoples, that alone gave me some kind of case of lifetime PTSD, the war only added to the burden I must carry. I saw so many people of different cultures and beliefs and I ask myself who am I to judge? Besides, will I not be judged in the measure I use to judge? Will I not be forgiven in the same measure I use to forgive?

In all of these peoples I saw, I saw not only the differences but the things we all have in common; we all must labor to put food on the table and a roof, however humble, over our heads, families, friends and life happens to us all.

As for the judgment of everyone, what then does Paul tells us?

Romans 2:11-16 For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 
Simeon_Hovey said:
What is the address/location of this thread?
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Forgive me Simeon, if I am being dense, but is there a lesson in the question that I do not understand? I will answer literally, even though it seems like you must know you can access this information as easily as I.

The post from which you quoted is the 4th of the thread on the first page. Here is the internet equivalent to a physical address/location:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=468351

Regards,

Rory
 
Angel7 said:
I have noticed that when someone is defending Mormonism and Islam there are several uncharitable comments made at them. It surprises me how someone could things that are offensive and disrespectful for their beliefs. As Christians we must respond with Love … always. Charity doesn’t stop online.

So next time someone is talking about something which is wrong or against The Church. Lets still respond with love.
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I guess I have a problem with the politically correct approach since I was clearly taught growing up and in Catholic school that all non-Catholics go to Hell when they die. No Purgatory, no passing “GO” and collecting your $200; nothing but hellfire and damnation and that was after Vatican II which more-or-less addressed the issue of people who’d never heard the Gospel.
 
Personal attacks are never appropriate, but those who preach and teach false religions ie: mormonism, Islam etc. are the enemy of God’s people and must be rebuked. Firm charity, yes, but error has no rights.
 
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