Can we reconcile God's love with hell?

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Eddie too,
perhaps we are wandering from the central point in this discussion. Are you claiming only Christians can be saved (extra ecclesia nulla salus - outside the Church no salvation)? If so this is a different issue that reconciling God’s love with the existence of hell.
 
however God chooses to save those who do not profess Christ in some manner was not revealed to us by Jesus. there are good reasons to believe that God is not bound by the sacrament of baptism when it comes to saving souls, but whatever the mysterious transformation of grace in the human soul that baptism is the outward sign of must be experienced by the human being through another extra ordinary means that God chooses. our souls must be oriented toward God at the time of our judgment for us to be saved.

for the most part, discussion of salvation outside of the sacrament of baptism is entirely speculative because divine revelation does not address the details of such salvation. to be saved, we must accept the Gospel of Christ insofar as it has been revealed to us.
 
Eddie Too,
thanks for your constructive reply.

I know we cannot understand God; we would be God if we could.

However I am obsessed with hell. Nowadays so many Catholics do not attend mass or go to confession, many live active sex lives outside marriage. If what we were taught is correct it seems most of us will end up in hell. Because of these negative thoughts I try to focus on the positive, but it is hard for me to see that God can be loving and just. It would be great if I could get realistic help.
 
these thoughts of hell that come to you and trouble you to the point nearly of despair are not coming from the Holy Spirit. they could be direct temptations from satan.

a method I have found useful in confronting persistent temptations is to, each time the temptation occurs, say a prayer for graces for myself and others who might be influenced by my surrender to the temptation. I have found the Hail Mary prayer to be particularly effective.

the way I see it, I am turning satan’s tables on himself. he tries to bring me down and I use his attempt as a motivation to raise my mind and heart to God. it usually works. the way I see it, satan does not want to waste his efforts, his temptations, by having them used for the salvation of souls.

so, each time those terrible thoughts about the horrors of hell come to you, recognize they are designed to separate you from God and use them instead to draw nearer to God by saying an Our Father, an Hail Mary and a Glory Be for the salvation of souls. whatever the source of your thoughts on the horrors of hell and questioning of how a Perfect and Infinitely Loving God could have created hell, with your prayers you will be making the best and most effective response possible to it (the source of those terrible thoughts).

remember, unless you are welcoming those thoughts and inviting them to remain, there is no sin involved. they are temptations, nothing more. you, however, can make those very thoughts motivations to pray for the salvation of souls.

satan does not want us praying. that is why the best responses to temptations are prayers.
 
Eddie Too,
thanks, I appreciate what you are trying to do. But hell exists.
There are many quotes showing from the Gospels, not from Satan, the reality of hell, e.g. Mt 22:14 and Mt 25:41.

How can this be reconciled with a good, loving father?
 
Eddie Too,
I am grateful to you for your efforts to help me.

Because I am negative I try to be positive.

Tonight in my prayer time I came across the following, which helped me:

“Knowing that God loves me unconditionally, I look honestly over the last day, its events and my feelings.
Do I have something to be grateful for?
Then I give thanks. Is there something I am sorry for?
Then I ask forgiveness.”

I wish I could believe God loves me unconditionally, as I see it if I offend him he rejects me and unless he forgives me I am damned.
 
i wonder if we question God’s mercy because, in our pride, we believe our sins are too great to be forgiven?

how does one reconcile the love of Jesus Christ with a belief that His sacrifice was not sufficient for the forgiveness of one’s sins?

I totally understand, and have experienced, the fear that I am not truly sorry or that I am not sorry enough for God to forgive me. when this fear arrives, I do my best to remind myself that God is love and He did not become man to save perfect people. He came to save sinners.

it is particularly hard to accept God’s mercy when we know we commit the same sins over and over. however, God does not love His creation because of its goodness. He loves it because it is His and His love is what created the universe.

God never stops loving His creation, any part of it and for any reason. we are part of that creation and thus God never stops loving us.

I repeat, negative thoughts about almighty God should be rejected and opposed at all times. we finite humans have nowhere near the knowledge, wisdom and intelligence to question the will of God. deliberately welcoming and dwelling on such questions about God’s goodness, justice and mercy are sins.

the only sins that cannot be forgiven are the sins for which we are not sorry. I am not sure how everyone can convince themselves they are sorry, but I know making reparations for my sins has been a good starting point for me. prayer, penances and acts of charity are the best weapons against despair.

as a last recourse, we endure these temptations to question God and to despair of His mercy through steadfast Catholic practices and devotions. some of the saints, st. Teresa of Calcutta is one, endured years of feeling separated from God and His love. their salvation is that they never let these feelings overcome their desire to know, love and serve God in this world.

for many, finding a spiritual director has proven very successful in addressing particular faults and temptations. the advantage of a spiritual director is that he or she provides an objectivity that we cannot give to ourselves.
 
is it a good and loving human father’s fault when one of his children leaves the faith? or, when one of his children commits a crime? or, when one of his children sins grievously? no, no and no.

why then is it our Father in heaven’s fault when one of His children refuse His love?
 
NoelFitz said:
Eddie too,
perhaps we are wandering from the central point in this discussion. Are you claiming only Christians can be saved (extra ecclesia nulla salus - outside the Church no salvation)? If so this is a different issue that reconciling God’s love with the existence of hell.
Click to expand...
You asked the question, “Are you claiming only Christians can be saved (extra ecclesia nulla salus - outside the Church no salvation)?”

You do know that “outside the Church no salvation” does NOT mean that “only Christians can be saved”, don’t you?
 
eddie_too said:
however God chooses to save those who do not profess Christ in some manner was not revealed to us by Jesus. there are good reasons to believe that God is not bound by the sacrament of baptism when it comes to saving souls, but whatever the mysterious transformation of grace in the human soul that baptism is the outward sign of must be experienced by the human being through another extra ordinary means that God chooses. our souls must be oriented toward God at the time of our judgment for us to be saved.

for the most part, discussion of salvation outside of the sacrament of baptism is entirely speculative because divine revelation does not address the details of such salvation. to be saved, we must accept the Gospel of Christ insofar as it has been revealed to us.
Click to expand...
You mention Baptism, ever heard the statement: “One Baptism for the forgiveness of sins”?
 
NoelFitz said:
Eddie Too,
thanks, I appreciate what you are trying to do. But hell exists.
There are many quotes showing from the Gospels, not from Satan, the reality of hell, e.g. Mt 22:14 and Mt 25:41.

How can this be reconciled with a good, loving father?
Click to expand...
Something to think about concerning the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25.

Do you think that there is anyone who is all sheep or all goat, concerning the meaning of sheep and goat in these verses?

Seems to me that all of us are a mixture of sheep and goat (good and bad), none being completely good and none being completely bad.

In one of the creeds, where it says that Jesus went to hell, some think/believe that it refers to the “abode of the good dead”, I think/believe that it means exactly what it says and I think/believe this for a couple of reasons.

One of the reasons is that I do NOT believe that I have experienced worse than Jesus and another reason is that if Jesus “paid the ransom” for our sins by His work on the cross than just what do you or anyone else think that “ransom” was/is?

As I have said before, I think/believe that Divine Justice and Divine Mercy are so intertwined as to be ONE and that ALL will receive both.
 
NoelFitz said:
Eddie Too,
I am grateful to you for your efforts to help me.

Because I am negative I try to be positive.

Tonight in my prayer time I came across the following, which helped me:

“Knowing that God loves me unconditionally, I look honestly over the last day, its events and my feelings.
Do I have something to be grateful for?
Then I give thanks. Is there something I am sorry for?
Then I ask forgiveness.”

I wish I could believe God loves me unconditionally, as I see it if I offend him he rejects me and unless he forgives me I am damned.
Click to expand...
The “O my Jesus” prayer is relatively new and I don’t know if you are familiar with it or not but here are the words to it:

O my Jesus,
forgive us our sins,
save us from the fires of hell,
lead all souls to heaven,
especially those who have most need of your mercy.

I hear many people saying this prayer when they pray the rosary but I often wonder just how many really “listen” to the words.

“forgive us our sins”, we are asking Jesus to forgive ALL (us).

“save us from the fires of hell”, we are not even asking Jesus to keep us from the fires of hell but to SAVE us from the fires of hell.

“lead all souls to heaven”, self-explanatory, I would say, ALL.

“especially those who have most need of your mercy”, an absolutely wonderful thought put to prayer, don’t you think?
 
NoelFitz said:
Eddie Too,
thanks, I appreciate what you are trying to do. But hell exists.
There are many quotes showing from the Gospels, not from Satan, the reality of hell, e.g. Mt 22:14 and Mt 25:41.

How can this be reconciled with a good, loving father?
Click to expand...
Hell is the absence of God. Hell is the absence of good. There are those who would say, “I would rather go to Hell that to have anything to do with God.” “I would rather go to Hell than to give up my life to the service of others.” “I would rather go to Hell rather than give up my Ferrari” “I would rather go to Hell than to say I am sorry.” “I would rather go to Hell than to relinquish my anger and hatred.” “I would rather go to Hell than to accept God’s goodness.”

There are many reasons why a person will prefer an eternity in the absence of God, - prefer the absence of good - rather than an eternity with God.

This is the choice we make. We make this choice daily. And at the end of our lives we will make this choice with full knowledge of what it means. And, there are those who will say, “To Hell with it.”
 
Thanks to all who replied to me.

I cannot understand why God allows people to end up in hell, but who am I to question God? How can the clay tell the potter what to do? If I understood God I would be God. I believe even Thomas Aquinas admitted we cannot say what God is, only what he is not.

I used to think of Psalm 50 “My sin is against be always” and think of hell and punishment awaiting me, now I try to focus on another part of this psalm, “You O Lord will open my lips
and my tongue shall announce your praise.”

So let us all pray for each other and hope we will meet in heaven, not hell.
 
There was a quote said in another section of this forum. It went like this.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels. We were never meant to go there but it is our choice.

I think that’s the quote. It’s sad to see people choose that but God accepts our choice.
 
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