Can we say that "Love is God"?

[Richca]

**In His humanity **Jesus loved us more than Himself. Of that there is no doubt at all. Divine attributes did not apply to Him when He was on this earth. He was a man like us in all things but sin.

On the contrary, when Jesus talked about the two greatest commandments, he said “The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matt. 22:39). Accordingly, Thomas Aquinas commenting on this says “Whence it seems to follow that man’s love for himself is the model of his love for his neighbor. But the model exceeds the copy. Therefore, out of charity, a man ought to love himself more than his neighbor” (ST, Part II-II, Q, 26, art. 4). Aquinas says that there is an order in charity. First, we ought to love God more than ourselves. Second, ourselves. Third, our neighbor. He also says that we ought to love our neighbor more than our own body of which Jesus is the prime example of this.

 

[tonyrey]

tonyrey

Jesus Himself said:

"

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

John 15:13

Divine attributes did not apply to Him when He was on this earth. He was a man like us in all things but sin.

It only seems to make sense if the sacrifice of Jesus; was planned before the creation of the universe began. In other words the creation of the universe and life hangs and depends on Jesus agreeing in advance to his sacrifice; a profound thought.

It certainly wasn’t imposed on Him by the Father against His Will!

But Jesus will come to judge the living and the dead, there is the still question of heaven and hell. How do you love a serial rapist and murderer, more than you love yourself? Presumably, not all of them will repent, where will they end up?

Jesus told us to forgive our enemies and presumably that includes the enemies of everyone else. We should also love them because He died for everyone, even those who reject His love. I believe He loves everyone in Hell but obviously not to the same extent as those who love Him and we should follow His example because although they are evil they are misguided. The question of loving them more than ourselves doesn’t arise! They are in a different realm altogether forever and ever.

 

[tonyrey]

On the contrary, when Jesus talked about the two greatest commandments, he said “The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matt. 22:39). Accordingly, Thomas Aquinas commenting on this says “Whence it seems to follow that man’s love for himself is the model of his love for his neighbor. But the model exceeds the copy. Therefore, out of charity, a man ought to love himself more than his neighbor” (ST, Part II-II, Q, 26, art. 4). Aquinas says that there is an order in charity. First, we ought to love God more than ourselves. Second, ourselves. Third, our neighbor. He also says that we ought to love our neighbor more than our own body of which Jesus is the prime example of this.

In his humility and wisdom St Thomas says “seems”. Perhaps we should follow his example and admit we don’t know for sure but we do know we should do our best to follow the the example of Jesus.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

**In His humanity **Jesus loved us more than Himself. Of that there is no doubt at all. Divine attributes did not apply to Him when He was on this earth. He was a man like us in all things but sin.

What about His miracles?

 

[sepgs2004]

Wishes in the Love of God.

Both words “God” and “Love” are subject to interpretations. However, God, more than the word Love, should be considered incomprehensible in a complete sense.

Since God is eternal and infinitely Good and all… any interpretation, regardless of how great it is viewed on this earth, would not be complete and could be misleading some one. We need God to understand God and Love. If we are blessed with a loving relationship with God, whatever that we know is sufficient for us. In other words, then we would have always an interpretation that is completely sufficient to our life at any point of time.

Both of these are infinitely more about spiritual rather than physical. In some perspective, we can say both of them are not physical at all. Their presence and effects may be (felt) physical.

Anything about these words, should and will, depend on what both words mean to us personally and individually, as opposed to what others think or influence, especially because both of them are about relationship and its experiences.

They are more to the heart, soul and spirit than to the mind.

With all these said…

God is Love.

Never in our Bible it says that Love is God.
Love is a quality and nature, where God is not.
This is the reason, that is if we say “Love is God”, current (and possibly the future) generation is defining Love without God. In fact, there is no Love without God.

However, in this world, the meaning of anything is subject to evolving and change.

True love is the Love of God. Loving one another is an automatic side effect of the true Love. Any love that does not originate from this True Love is simply not true (and would have have any eternal touch) at all.

The degree of the truth of our understanding of love or our love itself is directly proportional to the degree of love relationship we have with God. And the love relationship we have with our God is initiated and guided by Him.

Good wishes.

 

[tonyrey]

**In His humanity **

His miracles were in answer to prayer to His Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[tonyrey]

It only seems to make sense if the sacrifice of Jesus was planned before the creation of the universe began. In other words the creation of the universe and life hangs and depends on Jesus agreeing in advance to his sacrifice; a profound thought.

That is a good point, Eric.

But Jesus will come to judge the living and the dead, there is the still question of heaven and hell. How do you love a serial rapist and murderer, more than you love yourself? Presumably, not all of them will repent, where will they end up?

“Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds”. - Shakespeare

We are told to hate the sinner but not the sinner - which is easier to do if we realise all evil is a form of ignorance even though it is culpable. Jesus certainly feels pity for the lost sheep even though he condemns those who don’t repent. He died for everyone without distinguishing the sheep from the goats because His love is perfect and perfect love consists in total identification with the other person. “self-naughting” is the word that comes to mind but I can’t remember where I came across it. Although it doesn’t refer specifically to love John Keats used the term “negative capability” to describe self-forgetfulness which amounts to liberation from selfishness. The truth makes us free because it reflects divine love which transcends evil and imperfection. Even those who are in hell are still God’s children and it is they who pitifully separate themselves from Him.

 

[Richca]

In his humility and wisdom St Thomas says “seems”. Perhaps we should follow his example and admit we don’t know for sure but we do know we should do our best to follow the the example of Jesus.

We know for sure what the commandment is, it comes straight from the mouth of Jesus who is God. The second commandment involves our relationship with our fellow human beings. If we are to follow the example of Jesus in his humanity and our relationship with our fellow human beings, then I don’t think it is very reasonable to assume Jesus broke the commandment of God which he himself gave us to follow.

Your statement in a previous post, namely, “In His humanity Jesus loved us more than Himself. Of that there is no doubt at all” does not agree with the second commandment. The second commandment reads “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” not more than yourself.

Secondly, you are misreading Aquinas. The quote I gave from St Thomas is an argument according to the rules of logic. You are taking the premise or proposition for the conclusion. He first makes a proposition about the words of our Lord “you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The proposition is “Whence it seems to follow that man’s love for himself is the model of his love for his neighbor.” This is the proposition he wants to prove to be accurate and true. Next, he makes a statement about the proposition “But the model exceeds the copy.” He concludes “Therefore, out of charity, a man ought to love himself more than his neighbor.”

 

[tonyrey]

We know for sure what the commandment is, it comes straight from the mouth of Jesus who is God. The second commandment involves our relationship with our fellow human beings. If we are to follow the example of Jesus in his humanity and our relationship with our fellow human beings, then I don’t think it is very reasonable to assume Jesus broke the commandment of God which he himself gave us to follow.

 

[SHoJjhmou]

Richca;13147942:

The fact that Jesus came to redeem us implies that He is not in the same category as everyone else.

I’m not even sure what “the model exceeds the copy” means but I am sure that loving oneself more than one’s neighbour is the antithesis of “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.

Perfect love consists in total identification

with the other person. Love for oneself doesn’t even come into the picture…

“Therefore God ought to be loved chiefly and before all out of charity: for He is loved as the cause of happiness, whereas our neighbor is loved as receiving together with us a share of happiness from Him.”

Jesus is God. He loves the Holy Spirit more than He loves us, He loves the Father more than He loves us, and He must love himself more than He loves us.

Think about it. God created the natural order in which we must love things, and He knowingly put Himself on the top. The first commandment Jesus gives us is to love God, the second is to love our neighbor. This must mean that it is far more important to love God than our neighbor.

Jesus gave His life for us, yes. He loves us infinitely, yes. We cannot state that there is a limit to how much Jesus loves God however…and Jesus is God.

If only Aquinas was here to clear everything up…

 

[Aloysium]

Perfect love is a giving of oneself and thereby becoming one with the other.
Within the Triune Godhead, the Father gives Himself to the Son who returns that love in filial obedience. The ontological Breath, the Life that passes from one to the other, the Holy Spirit completes the transcendent Union that is God.
In becoming one of us, the Word enables all creation to return the love whereby it all comes into being.
We love one another as ourselves, sharing the love that is ours through our relationship with God, being all travellers on that Journey to Our Creator.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Perfect love is a giving of oneself and thereby becoming one with the other.
Within the Triune Godhead, the Father gives Himself to the Son who returns that love in filial obedience. The ontological Breath, the Life that passes from one to the other, the Holy Spirit completes the transcendent Union that is God.

Could the greatest commandments be used to describe this relationship in human terms?

God the Father loves God the Son, with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
The Father loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself.

The Son loves the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength
God the Son loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself.

Could the spirit be the power that comes from God’s love for us?

In 1 Samuel 18’ it links the second commandment with the Spirit…

New International Version (NIV)

18 After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.

In becoming one of us, the Word enables all creation to return the love whereby it all comes into being.
We love one another as ourselves, sharing the love that is ours through our relationship with God, being all travellers on that Journey to Our Creator.

Are we being asked to strive towards this same Trinitarian relationship with each other, through the greatest commandments?