Can We Stop The Nonsense Here?

[RevDrNorth]

God bless those who are willing to leave behind the pensions, perks, and salaries to follow Christ to the Catholic Church. I know some who are doing it and they’re living in financial peril right now but it’s worth it to them! God bless them!

Yes…I was impressed by a British Bishop who said (paraphrase) that leaving behind the title and salary to be Roman Catholic did not bother him since there were great er thing s(eternal things) that were more important.

There have been other Anglicans that have done so ( such as Graham Leonard)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Leonard

Bravo to them for doing what they felt was the God honoring things to do.

 

[Nine_Two]

First, I did not say the Orthodox “turned a blind eye to the scandal” just that it existed.
Sex and corruption scandals have shaken the foundations of the Greek Orthodox Church.
nctimes.com/special_reports/religion/article_96308b7e-6b66-5b35-9517-b93311dd1ab3.html

There is too much to search for but here is a beginning. For the Bishop in AZ(?) you can read the book Sacrilege linked below. I think that one Benedict cleaned up (if I recall correctly).

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8379584.stm

amazon.com/Sacrilege-Sexual-Abuse-Catholic-Church/dp/0979027993

jonathanturley.org/2009/11/09/canadian-judge-finds-catholic-bishop-thwarted-investigation-of-abusive-priest/

nyclergyabuse.com/documents/Rockville_Centre/Brian%20McKeon-7.pdf

bishop-accountability.org/

I don’t intend to get into any more debate on it. It was merely to point out that the unkind and sweeping remarks made about other denominations and done with a holier than thou attitude was not really a good idea when your own church is vulnerbale to many of the same or similar criticisms.

You asked for links so I gave what I could quickly find. I am now withdrawing from this thread since it is taking a nasty tone.

And not one of those links says the Church itself accepted what was going on, which is the issue.

You wonder why a nasty tone comes into this when you accuse my church of accepting clergy having improper relations with others and say that makes the Anglican Communion above it all? Oh, some priest in your church fondled a kid, so you can’t say the Anglican’s have it wrong for being Politically Correct. My Church acts when it finds out about the stuff you’re talking about. In fact policy is to suspend anyone who is even accused of something until a full investigation can be done, a monastery was recently excommunicated because of such an investigation and the abbot’s refusal to step down. Don’t say we turn a blind eye.

The Anglican Communion has accepted major docternal innovations within its American and Canadian Provinces. That is the bottom line. And that reflects on the entire Communion. And that is why I left the Anglican Church.

And for the record, at one point they were debating excommunicating the Episcopalian and Anglican Church of Canada. Had they carried through, then you might have a point.

 

[gamewell45]

And not one of those links says the Church itself accepted what was going on, which is the issue.

You wonder why a nasty tone comes into this when you accuse my church of accepting clergy having improper relations with others and say that makes the Anglican Communion above it all? Oh, some priest in your church fondled a kid, so you can’t say the Anglican’s have it wrong for being Politically Correct. My Church acts when it finds out about the stuff you’re talking about. In fact policy is to suspend anyone who is even accused of something until a full investigation can be done, a monastery was recently excommunicated because of such an investigation and the abbot’s refusal to step down. Don’t say we turn a blind eye.

The Anglican Communion has accepted major docternal innovations within its American and Canadian Provinces. That is the bottom line. And that reflects on the entire Communion. And that is why I left the Anglican Church.

And for the record, at one point they were debating excommunicating the Episcopalian and Anglican Church of Canada. Had they carried through, then you might have a point.

I sense alot of anger in you.

 

[Nine_Two]

I sense alot of anger in you.

Annoyance rather, at strawmen arguments about individual priests doing wrong, thus making everything else right.

 

[gamewell45]

Annoyance rather, at strawmen arguments about individual priests doing wrong, thus making everything else right.

Lets face it, every religion has had it’s bad Ministers, Priests, Rabbi’s, etc…but hopefully we learn from the mistakes of others and move on.

 

[Justy90]

The problem is it isn’t unfair. No other Communion in the world is so diverse because any other communion if you are found doing these things you get booted out. The lack of action is what brings this down on the church.

I notice you say you’re an ACLA Anglican, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you officially out of the communion, with only history tieing you into it? Were you right and the communion itself had integrity, you’d be in communion, and the TEC would not be.

Well seemingly yes, but as you well know the ACNA is practically brand new and being IN the Communion is by and large just a matter of formality and will happen in the next few years if not sooner.

 

[Justy90]

Agreed. And a scandal in the Church (Orthodox or Roman Catholic) is quite different from an ecclesiastical acceptance of a known sinful lifestyle and the actual sanctioning and even encouraging behavior we see in the Episcopal Church, etc. All churches have individual miscreants and scum that do these horrific deeds. But where does the catechism or canons of the church or theology say that gay marriage, abortion, divorce, etc. are santioned and acceptable? I fail to understand the individual misdeeds = just as bad as Episcopal Church open acceptance of said sin? Odd argument.

all haven fallen short of the grace of God.

 

[Justy90]

Justy is correct that not all Anglicans embrace the gay lifestyle and homosexual “marriage” and it is indeed inaccurate to paint the entire communion as pro-gay. I agree with his feeling there. But what bothers me greatly is the fact that it’s open to debate at all in the Communion, in any part of the communion! You’d never have this topic even debated in the Catholic Church any more than you’d have women’s ordination being mulled by Benedict XVI and the cardinals in his court. Yet it is accepted in Anglicanism by and large. It is unfair to paint all Anglicans as pro-women’s ordination and YET many provinces permit it. Divorce and remarriage, Calvinism, evangelicalism like JI Packer and John Stott permeate and sully Anglican claims toward being catholic and the diversity of Anglicanism is truly what is eating at it like a cancer. The fact that there is no authority, no excommunication, no agreement on much of anything, all points to a type of spiritual cancer. Homosexuality and women’s ordination are like Sauron and the Great Eye spreading its dominion over Christianity all over the earth. It’s the secular hip, open-minded, “loving,” “tolerant” thing to do and the easy thing to do. People are selling out to what is easy and, in their eyes, unavoidable. It’s only a matter of time until all Anglicanism embraces women’s ordination…those who resist will be marginalized and insignificant…or converts to the Catholic Church. The secular tide of these issues about sexuality and relationships, divorce/remarriage, abortion, etc. are all sell-out issues and so many are just giving in…The Catholic Church is the only armor to wear in these days of spiritual warfare IMO…I hope many Anglicans will take up the Pope on his generous open-door policy to Anglians and Anglican clergy. God bless those who are willing to leave behind the pensions, perks, and salaries to follow Christ to the Catholic Church. I know some who are doing it and they’re living in financial peril right now but it’s worth it to them! God bless them!

TEC clearly over stepped its juristiction in doing what it did. I do not agree at all that ordaining an openly and actively gay bishop is something that is debatable in general in the Anglican Communion. However, the demise of it all seems to be the lack of action on the part of Canterbury more so immediately following the action by the Diocese of New Hampshire rather than several years later. What we unfortunately got was excuse after excuse by Archbishop Williams of why the Robinson issue was not being brought to the fore front. This in my mind is why the shift is on (big time) away from England and Europe and much more toward Africa and South America. Anglicanism is a humongous wave in Africa as well as The Southern Cone. Don’t kid yourself. It’s not a fad at any degree. There are more Anglicans worshipping in Uganda on a Sunday morning than there are in America, Canada, Australia and all of Europe combined!