Can We Talk ? (Part 2) - The Last Supper?

[RagamuffinBlues]

I don’t “savvy” your interpretation. From whom do you receive authority of interpretation? Peace, Carlan

There is only one sovereign authority, and I try to keep under Him. From time to time, I go off rambling, ‘cause like Tom Paxton sings, ‘may all your ramblin’ bring you joy’ ( Ramblin’ Boy )
I tend to put my thoughts out there, and if they are rejected, it does not bother me, too much. I guess when you have been an entertainer for as long as I have, you will know what I mean.
I read a lot, and sometimes, I find I am reading something that really resonates well, with me, and so I hang on to it. I find that the Christian sacred texts, are a lot like a fairy tale. ( you know the sort that ends well, but with ghouls, goblins, trolls, heretics I mean, saints, gladiators, conquistadors, crusaders, witches, devils, demons, let your imagination be you guide…) One needs to be careful to let dogma determine the way you relate to it. It’s meant to enchant and feed us, but often our weeds, catchy criticisms and cough medicines ( Creeds, Catechisms, and Confessions) get in the way. So I tend to wait for the Wind, and the Word, and then just flow Carlan…I just flow and hopefully it makes sense, but mostly I hope a little of the light that was shone into my lonely broom cupboard gets out, and we can all ride off to Fantasia together…on brooms…before the judgement day comes and we find ourselves boiling in a lake of fire, for endless aeons. Of course, I am using word games here. Hell is not going to be a literal fire, or any boiling oil, and demons ripping off our flesh, those are antiquated errors of over literal interpretation of Jesus words…I mean if he said gouge out your eye, or cut off your hand, or eat my flesh, or drink my blood, or I am a loaf of bread of life, he was not being literal…we just can’t let go long enough to believe he could have meant something much more magical than that. I have swallowed gallons of sea water, and eaten 1000 of loaves of bread, and even eaten Weed Cookies, and drank the cup of marijuana…but it was all about satisfying the sensual, and I could not understand that all Jesus wanted was for me to come into the closet. Getting into the closet, took a really long time, staying in the closet, well that is another mission. He is calling…but will we obey, He is our feast, but do we know how to enjoy Him? Time to pray. Remind me of Sir Cliff Richard’s song, 'We Don’t Talk Anymore’

Stay in touch.
Eric

 

[Carlan]

There is only one sovereign authority, and I try to keep under Him. From time to time, I go off rambling, ‘cause like Tom Paxton sings, ‘may all your ramblin’ bring you joy’ ( Ramblin’ Boy )
I tend to put my thoughts out there, and if they are rejected, it does not bother me, too much. I guess when you have been an entertainer for as long as I have, you will know what I mean.
I read a lot, and sometimes, I find I am reading something that really resonates well, with me, and so I hang on to it. I find that the Christian sacred texts, are a lot like a fairy tale. ( you know the sort that ends well, but with ghouls, goblins, trolls, heretics I mean, saints, gladiators, conquistadors, crusaders, witches, devils, demons, let your imagination be you guide…) One needs to be careful to let dogma determine the way you relate to it. It’s meant to enchant and feed us, but often our weeds, catchy criticisms and cough medicines ( Creeds, Catechisms, and Confessions) get in the way. So I tend to wait for the Wind, and the Word, and then just flow Carlan…I just flow and hopefully it makes sense, but mostly I hope a little of the light that was shone into my lonely broom cupboard gets out, and we can all ride off to Fantasia together…on brooms…before the judgement day comes and we find ourselves boiling in a lake of fire, for endless aeons. Of course, I am using word games here. Hell is not going to be a literal fire, or any boiling oil, and demons ripping off our flesh, those are antiquated errors of over literal interpretation of Jesus words…I mean if he said gouge out your eye, or cut off your hand, or eat my flesh, or drink my blood, or I am a loaf of bread of life, he was not being literal…we just can’t let go long enough to believe he could have meant something much more magical than that. I have swallowed gallons of sea water, and eaten 1000 of loaves of bread, and even eaten Weed Cookies, and drank the cup of marijuana…but it was all about satisfying the sensual, and I could not understand that all Jesus wanted was for me to come into the closet. Getting into the closet, took a really long time, staying in the closet, well that is another mission. He is calling…but will we obey, He is our feast, but do we know how to enjoy Him? Time to pray. Remind me of Sir Cliff Richard’s song, 'We Don’t Talk Anymore’

Stay in touch.
Eric

Sooooo you continue to lean on your own understanding,not always such a good tendency!
Sounds to me as though, in your rambling wisdom, that you still have a few more years ahead of you to give it some serious thought or at least seek it. Turning to Catholic answers, is actually quiet a good idea. If in the end it doesn’t work for you, fair enough but the prayers will continuePeace, Carlan

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You have introduced another apspect from the mercy of God His Grace. This rules out “Faith alone” and Sola Scriptura. Now that Christ has suffered His passion, death and resurrection, how is it that you think by your own memory can save you?, by reading or hearing of Jesus great work of salvation on the cross? Do you think Jesus died once just for the first century Christians? Or does Jesus make His Sacrifice “present” always for every age until He returns for His Church (bride)? One cannot grasp Jesus eternally present sacrifice by just a memory? One would need God acting in and through His Word from His “Once and for all sacrifice” for all ages to be saved. Do you believe your memory can save you?

=RagamuffinBlues;7293079]Ouch! I knew I’d regret writing my 2nd post the way I did. I too do not believe in faith alone, but I do believe in grace alone, and by that I do not mean graces alone, (with respect to ‘SALVATION’), but by the single act of grace established on the cross 2000 years ago, when Jesus died for our sins, was buried and rose again, and ascended to the throne, where he reigns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords’. Amen.

Please note: ‘born of our own endeavours (etecetera)…’ < especially as I am not talking about sanctification, but salvation, as in our birth, being born of the Word and the Spirit, and continuing to grow as we pray and study and walk out our faith in very obvious and deliberate ways. I do not reject Romans or James, and stand firmly upon the solid ROCK of our confession, THE CORNERSTONE.

You don’t disagree with me, you disagree with Jesus commands. What you falsely claim to be ordinances, are actual commands and teachings from Jesus himself. The Catholic Church just obeys her master. Baptism was instituted and commanded by God not man. What you refuse to adhere to comes from God. Here is God’s Word what you falsely assume is a new doctrine or ordinance set by men.

John 3:3
**Jesus **answered and **said **to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above."
4
Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
5
Jesus answered, **"Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. **

Matthew 28;18
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, **baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” **

Also the celebration of the Eucharist is also a command from Jesus to “do this in memory of me”. Scripture never states to call to your memory what I did for you? The command from Jesus is “Do This”. How can you recall to memory if you were never there? Jesus command is to “Do This” so that the Spirit of God makes His eternal living sacrifice made present for “all”, “once and for all” for the remission of sins.

It is never too late to offer the peace of Christ. This is not a “rite” or blessing being administered without the “blessed trinity”. I offer the peace of Christ to you in charity and Love. Do not fret, a “rite” is always administered in the name of the blessed trinity.

I strongly disagree with you.
To put the ordinances before the completed work of Christ, is to make a new doctrine. I cannot submit to such a thing, having already submitted myself first to Christ, and then the ordinances of the Church, and not the other way round.

Perhaps a little to soon with the blessing. It seems you administered the final rights.

RMB

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

you still have a few more years ahead of you to give it some serious thought or at least seek it. Turning to Catholic answers, is actually quiet a good idea. If in the end it doesn’t work for you

You sound like the doctor who stood over my bed, in December 2007.
I’d just had a thrombosis, and well my heart was in such a bad state that wanted to take it out. I was pretty upset as you can imagine. I was 50, and in a cold sweat. I mean terrified. It’s not like I was a confused non-Catholic, who was not going to heaven, if I died. For there was that possibility, considering I had a massive clot in my heart, and the muscle at the front was either dead or in hibernation. People in the state I was die.
As I lay there trying to deal with my fear, the floor secretary sauntered over to me and gently asked me if I had made my peace with God. I was in total shock. What? What? In that moment, …it was not ‘a few more years’ or ‘serious thought’ or ‘seek it’…there was no time for that. I did not have time to join ‘Catholic Answers’, though I must point out I was a member here a long time ago, but I did not like Roman Catholics back then. I wanted to tell them to turn away from religion and put their trust in Jesus Christ. Like all Catholics were dumb. In the in between time, I got to thinking about Father John Michael Talbot, and his brother Terry, and I listened to John’s testimony about how he had got out of Protestantism…how he had been trying to convert Catholics…I was stunned…and then there was Terry Talbot and seeing as my wife (had been), her mother, and sister, and my grandmother and grandfather were all Catholics, though I grew up as a pagan…I realized that all this bull about anti Catholicism, was just that.
Okay, I don’t buy into the whole ORIGINAL SIN junk, and FIRE OF HELL SCREAMING BRUTUL ENDLESS SUFFERING…I think that really stinks of pressure to convert people. People should come because of the Spirit of Jesus, the gentleness and because the see it lived out on a daily basis.

Now back to the hospital bed.

So I am totally freaked out, and though I have been struggling along the way, and walking as close to the Lord, as I am able…by His Grace…and 32 years have gone by in a flash…it all rolls up into one moment…SNAP! You could die, are you ready to meet the Lord. I did not think…okay, I have said confession, or a priest has prayed over me, or I have been a regular attendant of the Mass, or burned candles for the dead, none of the hocus pocus, no time for that…I am like the guy on the cross next to Jesus. I know the message of salvation by putting all my trust in what Jesus did, which I could not seeing as I was a sinner at the time…and it hits me…it’s time to meet GOD. YIKES! I am in a COLD SWEAT, I mean I felt like the pillow had melted and I was sinking through that hospital bed…
Then like a tiny nervous whisper, I hear it…I mean here is a boy who spent 8 plus months on a retreat and really knows the Lord intimately, but now I am like at death’s door…a whole other kettle of fear…I did not know how to sing, O Death Where is thy sting…I was frightened. really really frightened, and so was my family and…then in a whisper a tiny thought. ** ‘I have put my faith in Jesus Christ’ ** Not much, but it was all I had, and all I still have and you know what Carlan, according to the Christian sacred texts…it is more than enough, it is all that God wants to hear in our heart. Have you put all your trust in Christ. I have… Have you?

I offer the peace of Christ to you in charity and Love. Do not fret, a “rite” is always administered in the name of the blessed trinity.

The only rite, I am concerned about is being right with God, and if Justification is a matter of my being right enough, then Christ died for no reason at all.

Peace,
Eric.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I can agree with you here. We are mere dust and water created by God. It is through Christ only that saves us, How? Let scripture speak of the “Rites” for its self; from this text it will reveal to you “Baptism” and the “Eucharist” in the breaking of bread in the communal lifestyle. It is by these sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ himself that man is saved and returns to communion with his creator in His True presence.

Acts 2:36
Therefore let the whole house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified."
37
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, **“What are we to do, my brothers?” **
38
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39
**For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call." **40
He testified with many other arguments, and was exhorting them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.
42
8 **They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers. **43
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.

Peace be with you

=RagamuffinBlues;7293686]The only rite, I am concerned about is being right with God, and if Justification is a matter of my being right enough, then Christ died for no reason at all.

Peace,
Eric.

 

[Carlan]

You sound like the doctor who stood over my bed, in December 2007.
I’d just had a thrombosis, and well my heart was in such a bad state that wanted to take it out. I was pretty upset as you can imagine. I was 50, and in a cold sweat. I mean terrified. It’s not like I was a confused non-Catholic, who was not going to heaven, if I died. For there was that possibility, considering I had a massive clot in my heart, and the muscle at the front was either dead or in hibernation. People in the state I was die.
As I lay there trying to deal with my fear, the floor secretary sauntered over to me and gently asked me if I had made my peace with God. I was in total shock. What? What? In that moment, …it was not ‘a few more years’ or ‘serious thought’ or ‘seek it’…there was no time for that. I did not have time to join ‘Catholic Answers’, though I must point out I was a member here a long time ago, but I did not like Roman Catholics back then. I wanted to tell them to turn away from religion and put their trust in Jesus Christ. Like all Catholics were dumb. In the in between time, I got to thinking about Father John Michael Talbot, and his brother Terry, and I listened to John’s testimony about how he had got out of Protestantism…how he had been trying to convert Catholics…I was stunned…and then there was Terry Talbot and seeing as my wife (had been), her mother, and sister, and my grandmother and grandfather were all Catholics, though I grew up as a pagan…I realized that all this bull about anti Catholicism, was just that.
Okay, I don’t buy into the whole ORIGINAL SIN junk, and FIRE OF HELL SCREAMING BRUTUL ENDLESS SUFFERING…I think that really stinks of pressure to convert people. People should come because of the Spirit of Jesus, the gentleness and because the see it lived out on a daily basis.

Now back to the hospital bed.

So I am totally freaked out, and though I have been struggling along the way, and walking as close to the Lord, as I am able…by His Grace…and 32 years have gone by in a flash…it all rolls up into one moment…SNAP! You could die, are you ready to meet the Lord. I did not think…okay, I have said confession, or a priest has prayed over me, or I have been a regular attendant of the Mass, or burned candles for the dead, none of the hocus pocus, no time for that…I am like the guy on the cross next to Jesus. I know the message of salvation by putting all my trust in what Jesus did, which I could not seeing as I was a sinner at the time…and it hits me…it’s time to meet GOD. YIKES! I am in a COLD SWEAT, I mean I felt like the pillow had melted and I was sinking through that hospital bed…
Then like a tiny nervous whisper, I hear it…I mean here is a boy who spent 8 plus months on a retreat and really knows the Lord intimately, but now I am like at death’s door…a whole other kettle of fear…I did not know how to sing, O Death Where is thy sting…I was frightened. really really frightened, and so was my family and…then in a whisper a tiny thought. ** ‘I have put my faith in Jesus Christ’ ** Not much, but it was all I had, and all I still have and you know what Carlan, according to the Christian sacred texts…it is more than enough, it is all that God wants to hear in our heart. Have you put all your trust in Christ. I have… Have you?

The only rite, I am concerned about is being right with God, and if Justification is a matter of my being right enough, then Christ died for no reason at all.

Peace,
Eric.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us Eric. I pray now for your continued health and that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit , will enlighten not only you but all of us to the full Truth of His Apostolic Church, his kingdom on earth.Peace, Carlan

 

[JonNC]

=RagamuffinBlues;7293017]Hi JonNC,
Though it might not be mine, I think it quite possibly might be, because I am the only one I now that sometimes writes God, in that way. ( G_d )

Well, I think Walter Williams does this, as a slap in the face of the secularists who want to limit first amendment rights to Christians. Obviously, I didn’t think it was Williams’ quote, but I just wanted a clarification. Thanks.

Salvation is entirely in the court of G_d. G_d did it, not us. If we try to add a thing to that, it becomes = God and us did it, but seeing as most of us, were not even yet a twinkle in the eye of our parents, when Jesus died for our sin, was buried and rose again, and ascended … we have no right to such a claim. The sacrifice was a once for all, sealed-signed and delivered end to altar sacrifices, by one offering for all. ( Hebrews, is pretty clear about that fact. )

It seems to me the sacraments of Baptism, the Eucharist, and Confession/Absolution are clear from God’s grace, and are a means of Grace for us. I don’t see them as our works.
I also see His grace in the other four Catholic sacraments.

This however does not relieve us of the responsibility of doing what He said. I am not a Catholic, so I am not under the rules and regulations of it. However I am under Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit, and as such I am ‘working out my salvation with fear and tremblilng’ < that being the form of my religion.

I generally agree with the thrust of your point, here, regarding the necessity to follow Christ’s commands.

As to the content, it is all about Jesus, and not about me.

Not sure I understnad what you mean by this.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=RagamuffinBlues;7293030]
Sure, the ECF were struggling as we are struggling to understand the words of Jesus. I think that will be a problem, until one day, the Lord does in fact come. It’s a ‘space filler’ Yet, the bread and the wine, not matter how much we may pray for them to change, do not change into anything but bread and wine.

I don’t think the ECF’s struggled at all. The words are quite clear: “this is my body”
Luther points this out in his comments on the real presence:
*Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.

Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.”*

It is common enough in mystical language to attempt to explain mysterious events, by referring to everyday idioms, metaphors, and well, …words and words and words… The danger with mandating anything like this, or turning it into a Church rule of worship, is that it kills the essential spirit of what Jesus was saying throughout the Christian sacred texts. Where to begin, his always the hard part, and I would agree that we begin with Jesus. After all, if he is the one who says, ‘come unto me, and believe’ or ‘you will never thirst again, or hunger again’ Those are extreme claims, and if we obey the words, then coming to him in faith and believing in him, is enough to satisfy us eternally, or not. What would be at fault them, would be our ability to see what is going on in the spiritual world. It is a common enough problem, throughout the entire body of Christian sacred text. One just has to read and be amazed, and how much is ‘seen in part, and prophecied in part’
So when we are around this table of the Lord, it is not that His presence is not there, but the access point to this, is not through eating and drinking, it is as with seeing and hearing, another thing all together, and to bring it back into the realm of the sensual is to break prayer, and sever the connection based on grace and faith.

Without denying at all His presence in hearing the word, Christ’s words again are specific and clear: to eat and drink.

Jon

 

[wisdomseeker]

Oh, okay, a second comment. Hi Jon.

Sure, the ECF were struggling as we are struggling to understand the words of Jesus. I think that will be a problem, until one day, the Lord does in fact come. It’s a ‘space filler’ Yet, the bread and the wine, not matter how much we may pray for them to change, do not change into anything but bread and wine. It is common enough in mystical language to attempt to explain mysterious events, by referring to everyday idioms, metaphors, and well, …words and words and words… The danger with mandating anything like this, or turning it into a Church rule of worship, is that it kills the essential spirit of what Jesus was saying throughout the Christian sacred texts. Where to begin, his always the hard part, and I would agree that we begin with Jesus. After all, if he is the one who says, ‘come unto me, and believe’ or ‘you will never thirst again, or hunger again’ Those are extreme claims, and if we obey the words, then coming to him in faith and believing in him, is enough to satisfy us eternally, or not. What would be at fault them, would be our ability to see what is going on in the spiritual world. It is a common enough problem, throughout the entire body of Christian sacred text. One just has to read and be amazed, and how much is ‘seen in part, and prophecied in part’
So when we are around this table of the Lord, it is not that His presence is not there, but the access point to this, is not through eating and drinking, it is as with seeing and hearing, another thing all together, and to bring it back into the realm of the sensual is to break prayer, and sever the connection based on grace and faith.

RMB

So, you dont think Jesus gave us an infallible Church to teach all men the Truth, the meaning of His words?
do you think that the Apostles understood the message? or not?

Church rule?
do you believe that Jesus word’s are up to individual enterpretation?

do you believe in Church authority? do you believe that Jesus stablished authority to make disciples of all nations?

i have many questions for you still.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That was certainly not my intention, but I guess it does read that way.
My point was that if we are expressing ideas, that are in harmony with what Christ taught, and they convey the meaning he was endeavouring to convey, then it aught to be as believable.

I most certainly do not have an infallible understanding of the Christian sacred texts, but I do believe that what Jesus was saying was not literal eating and drinking, but rather something along the lines of partaking in his life, by eating his words, and drinking his essence.

what is drinking his essence means? did the apostles tought this?
the CC is sure and teaches with authority on this for 2000 years. but you are not even sure what you are saying is true, yet you want to teach others something that you are not sure what it is. how can this be?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Giving the Bible to the people in a language they could read and understand and decide for themselves, as to the meaning.

One aught not to eat unworthily, but that could as easily mean that we should not eat and drink damnation, by doing so as if it was just another meal, when in fact it is a very special moment when we remember the Lord’s death 'til he comes, [and celebrate his victory over death, and his glorious resurrection, unto the highest seat in glory.]

yep! now, that you guys have Sacred Scriptures at hand, how is this working out for those outside the CC?

so, you think that eating and drink simple wine and just a piece of bread as you say, could make them sick and even kill them. how is that?

It is not about celebrating his victory over death. It is about celebration of the New Covenant with God in his people.

stick around, it will be good for you.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I know they walked away, but it was because they were blind, and the idea was completely weird. Jesus never meant for them to think they must drink his actual blood, or eat his actual body. He was referring to the atonement, and how the blood would be sprinkled in the heavenly temple and how through God’s grace, the life of God would be poured out in the person of the Holy Spirit, who we as one body in Christ drink of. Savvy? It is this eating and drinking, that he is referring to, not a literal eating of drinking. That is far to sensual to be the teaching of Jesus. He was very magical, mystical and fantastic in the way he explained thing. Even when he told them about the mystery of the cross, they did not know what on earth he was talking about…‘go to Jerusalem’ < what was Jesus crazy…die, rise again. They had no idea, that he was going to ‘lay down his life’ and seal a covenant of promise made to Abraham. They only ‘understood these things’ after he and the Father has sent forth the Spirit, into our hearts, the same who cries, ‘Abba, Father’ Savvy.

RMB

how do you know they were blind?
in fact, Jesus never said, it is about the atonement, this is your imagination running wild.
Jesus continued to affirm what He said before. He never went back on His word. He said, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, if you dont eat my flesh and drink my Blood, you have no life in you. do you need more confirmation? there is no mention of atonement here.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It’s very, very important to think for ourselves, for what sort of father would entrap his child’s mind. The prodigal needs to be at liberty to leave and return to the pathway. It does not worry me that there are so many different denominations, and I don’t believe it worries God. What I do think worries God, is when a group of people, attempt to make out that their Church is the authentic, the only, the right one, implying that everyone else is wrong. This has caused great division, and well, I am not going to wheel out the past, but there is enough to make a solid point about the horrors of Christian 101 Wars. They were a mockery to the name we name, and a continual wound in the bride of Christ. You have no idea, how many times, I have had to roll over because of Catholic and Protestant, and the many denominations you refer to, who have bludgeoned, murdered, persecuted, and in short NOT lived up to the Lord’s words, for they would not take them in ( ingest them, drink them) They took the words of leaders, and their rules and regulations, instead of the Lord God, and His Word, and Spirit. They broke the water pots, they broke the one loaf of which we are a part, and now are trying to seam it together with their own words. I am trying to build a bridge here, but look how quickly it falls to pieces. Oh, how the Church needs Jesus?

FNB

to think for ourselves is a good thing, but how this has anything to do with the individual enterpretation of the Word of God?

how does obedience play a role when it comes to think for ourselves? does think for ourselves means we must be disobedient to the authority stablished by Christ in His Church?

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

Thank you for sharing your experience with us Eric. I pray now for your continued health and that God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit , will enlighten not only you but all of us to the full Truth of His Apostolic Church, his kingdom on earth.Peace, Carlan

Thanks, Carlan.

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

So, you dont think Jesus gave us an infallible Church to teach all men the Truth, the meaning of His words?
do you think that the Apostles understood the message? or not?

Church rule?
do you believe that Jesus word’s are up to individual enterpretation?

do you believe in Church authority? do you believe that Jesus stablished authority to make disciples of all nations?

i have many questions for you still.

what is drinking his essence means? did the apostles tought this?
the CC is sure and teaches with authority on this for 2000 years. but you are not even sure what you are saying is true, yet you want to teach others something that you are not sure what it is. how can this be?

yep! now, that you guys have Sacred Scriptures at hand, how is this working out for those outside the CC?

so, you think that eating and drink simple wine and just a piece of bread as you say, could make them sick and even kill them. how is that?

It is not about celebrating his victory over death. It is about celebration of the New Covenant with God in his people.

stick around, it will be good for you.

how do you know they were blind?
in fact, Jesus never said, it is about the atonement, this is your imagination running wild.
Jesus continued to affirm what He said before. He never went back on His word. He said, Amen, Amen, I say unto you, if you dont eat my flesh and drink my Blood, you have no life in you. do you need more confirmation? there is no mention of atonement here.

to think for ourselves is a good thing, but how this has anything to do with the individual enterpretation of the Word of God?

how does obedience play a role when it comes to think for ourselves? does think for ourselves means we must be disobedient to the authority stablished by Christ in His Church?

5 posts, in a row ?

wisdomseeker,

This thread has been continued, here - What Are You Reading?

Sincerely,
Ragamuffinblues.

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

Jon

Jon

Dear Jon,
This was my second post to CAF.
I decided to change direction, here - What Are You Reading?

Take care, and see you there.

Sincerely,
Ragamuffinblues.

Finis. (in other words, I won’t be answering questions about, or on this thread.)

 

[FightingFat]

Are you eating and drinking my words? No, I am not mocking. Jesus said that our words would also be eaten/drunk by others when He left (expediently) and sent His Spirit into our hearts, when He sent His Word into our hearts. These too are the same. For He does not tabernacle in houses made of stone, or relics, or statues, or pictures, but from the beginning he has sought to tabernacle in our hearts, and though His very nature is woven into the things we see, they have never, ever equalled, even in their total sum, or in any future fullness, for though we be complete in Him (The Lord Jesus Christ) our completeness is of Him.

What I am talking about is the Real, Real Presense of Christ, by His Spirit in our hearts.

Your words resonate with me friend. Indeed this is a theme many of the early Father of the Church would understand I think. I would add a caveat, and that is that you seem to be holding onto the spiritual and disdaining the physical. But we meet Christ in the physical and through Him we come to know God. God knows we are physical human beings and so gave us something tangible we can relate to. Christ healed by touch and by administering things, asking someone to wash in a pool, or by putting a paste onto a mans eyes. The physical reality of worship does not inhibit our closeness to God, it only aids it.

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

Your words resonate with me friend. Indeed this is a theme many of the early Father of the Church would understand I think. I would add a caveat, and that is that you seem to be holding onto the spiritual and disdaining the physical. But we meet Christ in the physical and through Him we come to know God. God knows we are physical human beings and so gave us something tangible we can relate to. Christ healed by touch and by administering things, asking someone to wash in a pool, or by putting a paste onto a mans eyes. The physical reality of worship does not inhibit our closeness to God, it only aids it.

He did, but his body (presently) is very different from that of ours. It is a body, much like the one we can look forward to after the resurrection. Not?

Sincerely,
Ragamuffinblues.

ps. There are some very serious reasons why I have taken this line of reasoning, and it has more to do with the problem of how folks set up natural vs supernatural. I see no such division.

 

[FightingFat]

He did, but his body (presently) is very different from that of ours. It is a body, much like the one we can look forward to after the resurrection. Not?

Sincerely,
Ragamuffinblues.

ps. There are some very serious reasons why I have taken this line of reasoning, and it has more to do with the problem of how folks set up natural vs supernatural. I see no such division.

You’ve lost me now, are you talking about how we experience Christ?

 

[RagamuffinBlues]

You’ve lost me now, are you talking about how we experience Christ?

Sorry, man. I jumped, ahead. Your reply, and my comment, and the fact that I have since moved on to a new thread. What are you reading? about a month, or two ago?

Yes, I was thinking about our experience of God, through Christ.