Can we trust the Apostles?

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BenSinner

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Our Church is built on the foundation of Apostolic succession, which is the reason why we claim to be the One True Church.

Reading scripture though, the apostles seemed very fallible, often misunderstood what Christ was saying, and did some bone-headed things during Christ’s ministry.

How can we trust them to contain the fullness of the Truth and be able to pass it down for generations and generations?
 
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As I’ve understood it they were guided by the Holy Spirit in their works of spreading the gospel after Pentecost. We can trust them because they were acting as instruments of Christ in establishing His Church.
 
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Wiser to trust them than my own judgement or that of a church that came along somewhere between 1500 to 2000 years later.
 
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What you are saying is true, but it changed after Pentecost, when they received the fullness of the Holy Spirit, to guide them in all truth.
 
They were chosen by Jesus, hand-picked for reasons known only to Him. And though they may seem dense in the Gospels, remember that they went to their deaths for what they knew was true. If only we could be as firm in our faith.
 
It’s not so much about them as it is about the Holy Spirit working in the Church since Pentecost. That is the ultimate basis of trust in the Church.
 
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That is such an excellent question!

The apostles are exactly as you say in the gospels – though they do have their shining moments as well. When other disciples abandon Christ (John 6), Peter says they’re all staying because they know Jesus is the Christ.

The way we see them going forth in the book of Acts, they seem totally transformed!
 
BenSinner said:
Our Church is built on the foundation of Apostolic succession, which is the reason why we claim to be the One True Church.
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No. Our Church is built on the foundation of Jesus, the stone that the builders rejected who became the corner-stone. 😉

Jesus, on His part, gave authority and leadership of His Church over to His twelve apostles.

Subtle, but critically important, difference… 😉
How can we trust them to contain the fullness of the Truth and be able to pass it down for generations and generations?
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Great question! We find the answer in Mt 16:17 – Jesus says, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.”

The operative distinction here is that God is in charge of the Church, protecting it from error and corruption by the Enemy.
 
It sure looks like they accomplished a great deal. That, alone should encourage us to see that God’s plan does not rely on the perfection of the one’s he calls to do His work. Nor will it be foiled by imperfection.
 
BenSinner said:
Our Church is built on the foundation of Apostolic succession, which is the reason why we claim to be the One True Church.

Reading scripture though, the apostles seemed very fallible, often misunderstood what Christ was saying, and did some bone-headed things during Christ’s ministry.

How can we trust them to contain the fullness of the Truth and be able to pass it down for generations and generations?
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You can’t without faith. The same goes for any faith community.
 
Brittany said:
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BenSinner:
How can we trust them to contain the fullness of the Truth and be able to pass it down for generations and generations?
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Because Jesus promised his Church would not be overcome by the gates of Hades (Matt. 16:18-19).
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I don’t know any non-Catholic Christian believer who believes otherwise. None that I know of at least believe the gates of hell will prevail.
 
Mother Angelica had a low opinion of the Apostles; pre-Pentecost

after the Pentteicost ; i think it is fairly clear that the Apostles let the world on fire with the christian faith…
 
BenSinner said:
Reading scripture though, the apostles seemed very fallible, often misunderstood what Christ was saying, and did some bone-headed things during Christ’s ministry.
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You’re right- they were pretty clueless while Jesus was with them- but notice the change that occurs on Pentecost? That all changes. That’s not to say that the apostles all became infallible, but they finally understood what Jesus had been teaching them.

Read any of the gospels in one sitting, if you get the chance. Notice how clueless they admit to being? Okay, but did you notice, for example, any of the prophecies they say have been fulfilled in Christ? The same person who later recognized Jesus had fulfilled a prophecy was once the man who denied Jesus three times, or thought that Jesus was talking about bread when He said to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, or wondered what He could have possibly meant when He spoke of being killed and being raised up on the third day.
 
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You want my opinion? We can’t. Why trust the apostles and not trust Buddha, Muslims or Hindus?
 
Would you go to your death for something you knew to be false? Because the apostles went to their deaths for their faith in Jesus. If they knew it all to be a lie they would simply have gone their separate ways after Jesus died, back to being fishermen and tax collectors. But instead, they went and proclaimed the gospel and eventually died for what they believed. That’s good enough reason for me.
 
Brittany said:
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Sy_Noe:
I don’t know any non-Catholic Christian believer who believes otherwise. None that I know of at least believe the gates of hell will prevail.
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I’ve sooken to quite a few American nondenominationalists who believe that the original Church was lost and now there is no Church with the full truth on Earth.
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And maybe no one has everything exactly right. Humans walk this earth and as such are subject to limited and finite understanding. There simply is no way to get around the fact that the only way we can believe and think we know is through faith. Nevertheless, whose to say that even if there is none today on earth with the full truth, that the gates of hades will prevail in the end. It’s not the end yet.
 
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Curious11 said:
You want my opinion? We can’t. Why trust the apostles and not trust Buddha, Muslims or Hindus?
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Hmm… maybe because Jesus breathed on them and gave them the Holy Spirit, but didn’t do so to Buddha, Muslims, and Hindus? Maybe because Jesus gave them the proxy of His authority to administer His Church? 😉
 
BenSinner said:
How can we trust them to contain the fullness of the Truth and be able to pass it down for generations and generations?
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The Apostles did pass along enough to let us know that religious men who lord over their flock are not to be trusted. They also passed along such things like that charity is paramount, and that we should judge by the fruits produced, not simply follow blindly.

St. Paul exhorted Christians to test everything and retain what is good.

These things are all hallmarks of trustworthiness.
 
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