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Vince1022
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That’s still an option, an encouragement. Not a requirement of the Rite.
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diggerdomer
Guest
I think it is exactly what the Church describes in the RCIA. What do you think it is?
Depends on what you mean. Adult cagtechumens initiated into the Catholic Church of course go to communion without the sacrament of Reconciliation (as the RCIA teaches).
My observation is that most Catholics who go to Sunday Mass go to Communion regardless of whether they have celebrated the sacrament of Reconciliation. The Catholic Church only requires the sacrament of Reconciliation prior to communion for those conscious of grave (mortal) sin.
Which, again, is not an issue for RCIA catechumens, who are baptized, confirmed, and receive communion all at once (no sacrament of Reconciliation).
What do you mean by “without penance”? Exactly?
And of course let’s not forget that the majority of Catholic liturgical Rites fully initiate infants, i.e. they are baptized, confirmed (chrismated) and receive communion as infants, prior to any celebration of the sacrament of Reconciliation.
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diggerdomer
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Incorrect. The RCIA celebrates all at the same time. Have you read or are you familiar with the Rite (of the Roman Catholic Church) of the Christian Initiation of Adults? RCIA?
Non-Christian adults (i.e. over the age of reason, or typically 7 years of age) enter the Catholic Church by celebrating the sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and eucharist. In that order, at the same time, and without the sacrament of reconciliation.
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rinnie
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Yes I am quite famillar with the Roman Rite and I disagree with you completely.
The Only way a canidate can receive the Sacraments is if they are not in the state of sin.
If the Conditional Baptism is administered at the Easter Vigil (which is often the case) then confession SHOULD be posponed until a suitable time after the celebration,
Which as I stated would be common sense because the Canidate received CONDITIONAL ABSOLUTION before receiving the Sacraments.
Which as I stated is common sense because Baptism washes away all sin, so when they are baptised they are automatically in a state of Grace and there is no time to commit actual sin between the 3.
My husband did not get Baptised at his so he HAD to receive the Sacrament of Confession because he could not receive the Sacraments because of being in the state of sin. He was 21 years of age therefore he did commit actual sin and had to confess it.
Only a Priest can give absolution for our sins rather they are mortal or venial. That is why we must go to confession in the CC at least one time a year rather in Venial or Mortal sin.
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rinnie
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And again every canidate is different as I stated so it is not the same for everyone. ANd you are wrong my husband did not receive the Sacrament of Baptism again because the Priest said it is not necessary.
The Priest told him that because he was Baptised in a Christian Church his Baptism was vallid. So again I disagree with you and not all are given together. And as I stated to you because his Baptism was valid he was in a state if venial sin and had to have absolution by the Priest in confession before he could enter the CC and finish the sacraments.
Which would make sense why as a Child I also had to make my confession before communion and confirmation because I was baptised at birth therefore like my husband when I was in 2nd grade I was still had sin, and only a valid confession could wipe away my sin before communion.
The Priest told him that because he was Baptised in a Christian Church his Baptism was vallid. So again I disagree with you and not all are given together. And as I stated to you because his Baptism was valid he was in a state if venial sin and had to have absolution by the Priest in confession before he could enter the CC and finish the sacraments.
Which would make sense why as a Child I also had to make my confession before communion and confirmation because I was baptised at birth therefore like my husband when I was in 2nd grade I was still had sin, and only a valid confession could wipe away my sin before communion.
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jmcrae
Guest
This is because they are baptized only moments before receiving Confirmation and First Holy Communion. Baptism washes away all sins, meaning that they are in the state of grace to receive Confirmation and First Holy Communion.
But how are the candidates, baptized many years ago, to be in the state of grace, if they don’t have the opportunity to go to Confession beforehand?
That is their personal choice. They have, we hope, examined their consciences, and found that they have no sins to confess since their last good Confession, or since their baptism.
Yes. Are you suggesting that candidates baptized more than forty or fifty years ago can have committed no mortal sins in that interval?
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jmcrae
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This is only one of the three streams of RCIA.
The other two streams are Candidates (adults who have already been baptized in a non-Catholic church some time previously) and Uncatechized Catholics (adults who were baptized in the Catholic faith but received no other formation or instruction, and have not yet received one or more of the Sacraments of First Reconciliation, Confirmation, and/or First Holy Communion).
For these two streams, provision is made in the Rite for them to make their First Confession at some point prior to receiving Confirmation and/or First Holy Communion, in the paragraphs that I keep on quoting for you, which is in the section of the Rite that is dedicated to the Candidates and Uncatechized Catholics.
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rinnie
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Also digger, just curious, how could you POSSIBLY know if a person who go up for the Eucharist has not been to confession?
The way that I understand it, and if I am wrong I stand to be corrected, but a person in the RCC MUST CONFESS ONCE A YEAR in order to receive the Eucharist.
If that person is in the State of Mortal sin they cannot go to communion or they condemn themself before our Lord.’
Although with venial sin it is only to be confessed once a year, it is recommended every chance that you can really. BUt of course not every day etc. But monthly would be great, every 3 months in my opinion would be the norm. Of course I should practice what I preach and go more often.
But the point is venial sin can be confessed that is why we say right before Communion, Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed. Thats confession!!
The way that I understand it, and if I am wrong I stand to be corrected, but a person in the RCC MUST CONFESS ONCE A YEAR in order to receive the Eucharist.
If that person is in the State of Mortal sin they cannot go to communion or they condemn themself before our Lord.’
Although with venial sin it is only to be confessed once a year, it is recommended every chance that you can really. BUt of course not every day etc. But monthly would be great, every 3 months in my opinion would be the norm. Of course I should practice what I preach and go more often.
But the point is venial sin can be confessed that is why we say right before Communion, Lord I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed. Thats confession!!
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jmcrae
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Catechumens, only. There are two other streams of RCIA, both of which make their First Confession at some point during Lent - the Candidates, and the Uncatechized Catholics.
Read the whole Rite - don’t stop in the middle of the book.
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diggerdomer
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How does someone receive Baptism only if they are not in the state of sin?
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diggerdomer
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Where does any authorized liturgical/sacramental Rite of the Catholic Church refer to such an instance as you hypothesize?
Baptism is the “gateway” to all other Sacraments. No one who is not baptized celebrates other sacraments.
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diggerdomer
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I don’t know about nor do I object to or disagree with the particular circumstances you refer to. My only point, again, is that the sacrament of Reconciliation is not an absolute requirement prior to adult initiation via the RCIA. If you disagree, please read the Rite and show me where I misunderstand.
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diggerdomer
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We don’t know, and the Catholic Church (via the RCIA) does not require anything regarding celebrating the sacrament of Reconciliation prior to Candidates’ reception into full communion of the Catholic Church. That’s simply a fact of the Rite (RCIA). Read it. That’s the best way to remove confusion…learn the Rites of the Catholic Church. If you find something that requires Reconciliation please let us know.T
But how are the candidates, baptized many years ago, to be in the state of grace, if they don’t have the opportunity to go to Confession beforehand?
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diggerdomer
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No, not at all.Yes. Are you suggesting that candidates baptized more than forty or fifty years ago can have committed no mortal sins in that interval?
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diggerdomer
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Provision is made, but it’s not required. That’s my point.
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diggerdomer
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I don’t. And, personally, I don’t think anyone can (despite some bishops regarding certain politicians). So?
Actually, the precept of the Roman Catholic Church is stated in the Catechism para 2042. Read the whole paragraph.
That teaching may or may not cohere with your understanding, I don’t know.
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diggerdomer
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It’s certainly penitential, but it’s not the same as the sacrament.
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rinnie
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How do you figure? So you are saying that we cannot confess venial sin without a Priest? You are saying if we have venial sin and we confess it directly to Christ before commumion and do not go to confession we are condemning ourself before Christ, the same as mortal sin then?
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rinnie
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Huh??? a provision is a stipuation and a stipulation is a essential condition to an agreement which is Confession.
Now how could a essential condition not be required? What would you say the provision which is made then is?
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jmcrae
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Then, you need to provide an opportunity for them to go to Confession before receiving Confirmation and First Holy Communion - just as it states in the Rite.
Don’t you think?
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