H
hotdjdave
Guest
Continued from first submission.
Mary was not a Perpetual Virgin.
She had other children after giving birth to Jesus; hence, his younger brothers and sisters.
(Matthew 1:20) "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid, take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” God intended Joseph and Mary to have normal marital relations, including sexual intercourse (as commanded by God in Genesis; see next scripture below).
(Matthew 1:24-25) “Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: **and knew her not till **she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.” In the Bible, the term “knew her not till…” means that at some point Joseph had sexual intercourse with Mary, but not till AFTER she gave birth to her “firstborn” (Jesus). Also, “firstborn” indicates other births came afterward (which they did; see below).
(Mark 6:1-3 KJV) “And He went out from thence, and came into His own country; and his disciples follow Him. {2} And when the Sabbath day was come, He began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing Him were astonished, saying, ‘From whence hath this man these things? And what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? {3} Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judas, and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?’ And they were offended at Him.”
(Mat 13:54-56 KJV) “And when He was come into His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, ‘whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? {55} Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? {56} And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?’”
(Acts 1:13-14) “And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” Here the scripture clearly indicates “His brothers,” separating “the brethren” (eleven remaining Apostles or original disciples), and being mentioned along with his mother, Mary, indicating kinship (His sisters were probably included with “the women”).
Jesus had at least four brothers and two sisters (siblings; these were the subsequent sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary, well known to the people of Nazareth). The word “brothers” here does not mean “cousins,” because we know that at least the most popular or famous of his brothers, James, was known as the “brother of the Lord [Jesus].” Also, the family unit was being recognized: supposed-father (Joseph), mother (Mary), brothers, and sisters (albeit, half-brothers and half-sisters, Joseph being their natural father and Mary their natural mother).
Furthermore there are other things that cannot be ignored. Mary brought a sacrifice of two turtledoves in accord to Jewish law in Leviticus chapter 12. One was for a burnt offering; the other was for a sin offering. This couldn’t have been for the child who was the Holy One, the sinless spotless Lamb of God. This must have been for her own uncleanness. Mary’s conformity to the law is an admission she was a sinner needing to be restored by cleansing; only sinners need cleansing.
Another point of contention: if Mary is the woman of Revelation 12 as Roman Catholics say, it describes her with birth pains, which according to the Bible is a judgment on sinners (Gen. 3:15-16).
At the wedding feast of Cana, Mary realizes the wine has run out. She makes Jesus aware of the need, He rebukes her, replying “woman what do I have to do with you, my hour has not yet come.” Jesus felt she was going to reveal who He was before the right time and manner. He let her know He is not subordinate to a persons request; He is not subject to another person’s will, not even His own earthly mother, only His Father’s who is in heaven. She had no say in his ministry. Jesus obeyed the law to honor both His Father and his mother, but he would not allow her to choose the time of his disclosure. She receives this correction and then proceeds to tell everyone to listen to her son. In Luke 2:51 we see Jesus was subject to His parents, not Mary alone.
The wages of sin is death, all who sin die. If Mary was sinless she could not have died, which is what modern Mariology says in Roman Catholicism. What are the ramifications of Mary being sinless? She would be the first human being without sin since Adam. She would qualify to be our substitute just as Jesus, since only a sinless being could redeem mankind. There would have been no need for Jesus. The Bible is clear only God is holy in this way. 1 Sam.2:2 says, “there is no one holy as the Lord,” and in Rev.15:4 we see the redeemed singing the song of the lamb in heaven “You alone are Holy.” They are not singing this to Mary! If you are without sin, you are Deity! (This of course refers to after Eve sinned and before the resurrection where all believers will be changed together to have a completely new nature not having sin). Jesus said of which sin do you accuse me of…He had no accusers, Mary could never say this.
NOTE: I had to post a two submissions because of the length.
Respectfully submitted,
Dave
Mary was not a Perpetual Virgin.
She had other children after giving birth to Jesus; hence, his younger brothers and sisters.
(Matthew 1:20) "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid, take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.” God intended Joseph and Mary to have normal marital relations, including sexual intercourse (as commanded by God in Genesis; see next scripture below).
(Matthew 1:24-25) “Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: **and knew her not till **she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.” In the Bible, the term “knew her not till…” means that at some point Joseph had sexual intercourse with Mary, but not till AFTER she gave birth to her “firstborn” (Jesus). Also, “firstborn” indicates other births came afterward (which they did; see below).
(Mark 6:1-3 KJV) “And He went out from thence, and came into His own country; and his disciples follow Him. {2} And when the Sabbath day was come, He began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing Him were astonished, saying, ‘From whence hath this man these things? And what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? {3} Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Judas, and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?’ And they were offended at Him.”
(Mat 13:54-56 KJV) “And when He was come into His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, ‘whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? {55} Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? {56} And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?’”
(Acts 1:13-14) “And when they had entered, they went up into the upper room where they were staying: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” Here the scripture clearly indicates “His brothers,” separating “the brethren” (eleven remaining Apostles or original disciples), and being mentioned along with his mother, Mary, indicating kinship (His sisters were probably included with “the women”).
Jesus had at least four brothers and two sisters (siblings; these were the subsequent sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary, well known to the people of Nazareth). The word “brothers” here does not mean “cousins,” because we know that at least the most popular or famous of his brothers, James, was known as the “brother of the Lord [Jesus].” Also, the family unit was being recognized: supposed-father (Joseph), mother (Mary), brothers, and sisters (albeit, half-brothers and half-sisters, Joseph being their natural father and Mary their natural mother).
Furthermore there are other things that cannot be ignored. Mary brought a sacrifice of two turtledoves in accord to Jewish law in Leviticus chapter 12. One was for a burnt offering; the other was for a sin offering. This couldn’t have been for the child who was the Holy One, the sinless spotless Lamb of God. This must have been for her own uncleanness. Mary’s conformity to the law is an admission she was a sinner needing to be restored by cleansing; only sinners need cleansing.
Another point of contention: if Mary is the woman of Revelation 12 as Roman Catholics say, it describes her with birth pains, which according to the Bible is a judgment on sinners (Gen. 3:15-16).
At the wedding feast of Cana, Mary realizes the wine has run out. She makes Jesus aware of the need, He rebukes her, replying “woman what do I have to do with you, my hour has not yet come.” Jesus felt she was going to reveal who He was before the right time and manner. He let her know He is not subordinate to a persons request; He is not subject to another person’s will, not even His own earthly mother, only His Father’s who is in heaven. She had no say in his ministry. Jesus obeyed the law to honor both His Father and his mother, but he would not allow her to choose the time of his disclosure. She receives this correction and then proceeds to tell everyone to listen to her son. In Luke 2:51 we see Jesus was subject to His parents, not Mary alone.
The wages of sin is death, all who sin die. If Mary was sinless she could not have died, which is what modern Mariology says in Roman Catholicism. What are the ramifications of Mary being sinless? She would be the first human being without sin since Adam. She would qualify to be our substitute just as Jesus, since only a sinless being could redeem mankind. There would have been no need for Jesus. The Bible is clear only God is holy in this way. 1 Sam.2:2 says, “there is no one holy as the Lord,” and in Rev.15:4 we see the redeemed singing the song of the lamb in heaven “You alone are Holy.” They are not singing this to Mary! If you are without sin, you are Deity! (This of course refers to after Eve sinned and before the resurrection where all believers will be changed together to have a completely new nature not having sin). Jesus said of which sin do you accuse me of…He had no accusers, Mary could never say this.
NOTE: I had to post a two submissions because of the length.
Respectfully submitted,
Dave