Can you be both Catholic and Buddhist?

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But it is not just unkind and uncharitable–it is sloppy and presumptuous–to condemn something as an error before you have made proper inquiry into its nature.

Forget the whole question of kindness and charity. I am not questioning anyone’s charity. I think the problem with all of you knee-jerk anti-Buddhists is that (just as is the case with your liberal counterparts) your charity is getting the better of your love of truth. You’re so afraid of people damning their souls by touching Buddhism that you can’t be bothered to distinguish between good and evil, truth and falsehood.

I’m assuming that everyone in this discussion is motivated by charity. My problem is that you aren’t thinking clearly.

Edwin
If you were to call yourself and Episcopalian-Buddhist, would that be acceptable with your Episcopalian Church? Would a Buddhist who converts to your Church be correct in calling himself a Buddhist-Episcopalian? How about a Hindu-Episcopalian and that means baptized in your Church.

Those “knee-jerk anti-Buddhists” responding here (and how charitable is that?) do distinguish between good and evil. You cannot serve two masters. If you are a Catholic, you serve the one true God. If you don’t, you are, as a Catholic, committing a mortal sin.

“Anti-Buddhist”…nice. Not anti anyone. They’re free to worship as they please. No one is suggesting destroying statues of the Buddha or prohibiting anyone, including Catholics, from reading about him.
 
I have certainly yet to see evidence that he is worshiped with latria, although I’m open to the possibility that this is true in Mahayana.

You certainly cannot argue from anything the Bible says about “other gods” to a conclusion about how Christians should regard Buddha until you have shown (from a Catholic perspective) that Buddha is worshiped with latria. Of course this is much easier for Protestants. But both of us accept the dulia/latria distinction, so I’m approaching the matter on those terms.

Right.

Sigh. I think we’re getting somewhere and you go right back to square one. Considered by whom? At least one scholar of Japanese culture has concluded that the concept of “religion” just doesn’t work well to describe that particular Asian (and partially Buddhist) culture. Paul Griffiths, a Catholic theologian and scholar of Buddhism, wrote an article in *First Things *some years ago in which he argues that there is no neutral, “objective” sense of “religion.”

My objective in this thread is to try to get you and other “anti-Buddhists” to name specific beliefs and practices that are incompatible with Christianity, and point out the specific incompatibilities. You all seem extremely coy about doing that. I suspect this is because you recognize that once you start doing that, you open the possibility that some parts of Buddhism *may *turn out to be compatible with Christianity.

Can you explain the chain of theological reasoning that leads you to this conclusion? Noting, again, that you have still not defined “religion,” and that when Lycorth cited a definition it was really eight different definitions, a number of which apply to nationalism/patriotism and other secular ideologies just as well.

I’m not that interested in the question of owning a statue of Buddha in itself. I do not own such a statue and have no plans to acquire one. But your attitude to this question rests on the assumption that Buddha is theologically equivalent to the pagan gods described in the Bible, and hence that Buddhism should be regarded as essentially idolatrous and fundamentally opposed to Christianity without the need to examine its particular beliefs and practices. That’s the view I’m criticizing. I’m arguing that as with any set of beliefs and practices that are *not *conventionally labeled “religious,” one has to look at Buddhism piece by piece, rejecting what we find to be false or bad, accepting what we find to be clearly good and compatible with the truth revealed to us, and reserving judgment on the rest.

Edwin
Buddha is theologically equivalent to the pagan gods because he did not worship the one true God. Catholics venerating him would be committing idolatry.

Buddhists take care of the poor, try not to involve themselves with the materialistic world, and basically peacful. All good. However, if you wish to find people to emulate,as a Catholic, we are to adopt the ways of Catholic saints the majority of whom manifested these same virtues while worshipping Christ.
 
If you were to call yourself and Episcopalian-Buddhist, would that be acceptable with your Episcopalian Church?
Actually we had that issue recently. Northern Michigan elected someone as bishop who was a practicing Zen Buddhist. Many people reacted immediately with condemnation of this. I was among those who said that we should look into just what the theological implications of his Zen practice were. He claimed that Zen meditation had only deepened his Christian faith. However, as more of his sermons were posted online and more information emerged about his liturgical practice, it became clear that he rejected some basic Christian teaching. My own bishop was among many who voted not to confirm his election, and he was not consecrated as bishop. I think this was the right move, and the right approach–look at the specific implications of his Buddhist practice and judge them against the standards of orthodox Christianity. That’s the approach I’m advocating on this thread as well.
Those “knee-jerk anti-Buddhists” responding here (and how charitable is that?)
Charity has nothing to do with it. I’m describing the approach I have seen, and I’m describing it truthfully. I’m sure you are all acting from the best of motives. I’m not judging any of you as people or as Christians. I’m describing your posts.
do distinguish between good and evil.
Then why do the posts studiously avoid the specific issues of Buddhist belief and practice?
“Anti-Buddhist”…nice. Not anti anyone.
Sorry. Lycorth used the phrase, and it was succinct. I will not use it again.

Edwin
 
Buddha is theologically equivalent to the pagan gods because he did not worship the one true God.
So anyone who doesn’t worship the one true God is a pagan god? That makes no sense.
Catholics venerating him would be committing idolatry.
So you disagree with the classic definition of idolatry as giving the worship called latria to something which is not God?

I’m not saying that Catholics should venerate Buddha. I’m making the entirely orthodox theological point that dulia is not and never can be latria. Deny that, and the entire Catholic/Orthodox theology of saint veneration falls to bits. You seem to be saying that if dulia is paid to a non-Christian it is somehow counted as latria.

Edwin
 
I recommend that you read the book “Without Buddha I Could Not Be A Christian” by
Paul F. Knitter. From it you will realize that Buddhism is not a religion and realize that the controversy cited here is complete nonsense.

Anyone I have encountered who think that Buddhist philosophy is contrary to Buddhist philosophy has never studied Buddhist philosophy. The discussion here is loaded with false statements and characterizations. For me, I have found that studying Buddhist philosophy has deepened my Catholic faith and my relationship with God. Thomas Merton did the same but was (and is) chastised by many who do not know what they are talking about.

Bucky
I agree that studying Buddhist philosophy can deepen one’s Catholic faith, if one is so inclined to study Buddhist philosophy.

However, Knitter does not state in his text that Buddhism is not a religion.

Knitter is rather unique, in that his Buddhist teacher allowed Knitter to take refuge in the Triple Gem, while acknowledging that Knitter’s primary spiritual practice was still Catholicism. In short, what Knitter did was to take refuge in the Triple Gem *in so far as *doing so allowed him to cultivate a deeper commitment to his primary Guru, who is Jesus Christ.

There are a few Catholic priests who were recognized as Zen masters by their Zen teacher, but I don’t know if these priests actually took refuge, as Knitter has.
 
Actually we had that issue recently. Northern Michigan elected someone as bishop who was a practicing Zen Buddhist. Many people reacted immediately with condemnation of this. I was among those who said that we should look into just what the theological implications of his Zen practice were. He claimed that Zen meditation had only deepened his Christian faith. However, as more of his sermons were posted online and more information emerged about his liturgical practice, it became clear that he rejected some basic Christian teaching. My own bishop was among many who voted not to confirm his election, and he was not consecrated as bishop. I think this was the right move, and the right approach–look at the specific implications of his Buddhist practice and judge them against the standards of orthodox Christianity. That’s the approach I’m advocating on this thread as well.

Charity has nothing to do with it. I’m describing the approach I have seen, and I’m describing it truthfully. I’m sure you are all acting from the best of motives. I’m not judging any of you as people or as Christians. I’m describing your posts.

Then why do the posts studiously avoid the specific issues of Buddhist belief and practice?

Sorry. Lycorth used the phrase, and it was succinct. I will not use it again.

Edwin
I googled the Rev. Kevin Thew Forrester.

Forrester was a Roman Catholic priest who left the Church and became an Episcopalian priest. Somewhere along his journey, he was “ordained” by the Buddhists. (And there was a big discussion re. what “ordained” means.) This did not go over with the conservative Epicopalians (go figure) when his name was offered as the sole candidate for bishop. But it was his lack of deep Christian theology indicated in his sermons which the bishop evaluating his records noted and caused him to recommend Forrester not be elevated.

I’ve read the comments on some of the sites. Considering just the fact that the Episcopal Church has had some issues including women ordination, practicing homosexuals as priests, issues re. abortion, clown masses, and some splitting with Canterbury, I would think prudent men/women would not have persued this especially after being confronted by the valid objections of many in your church. Please note those objections are the same as some Catholics here have been trying to get across to you. Obviously, you didn’t listen to them and you are not listening to those of another Church.
 
As a Christian you believe in a God,you believe that you have a soul and at the end of your life on earth you go to your eternal reward in Heaven.Buddhism is a Philosophy which contradicts all of the above.Buddhists belive in a series of births until a state of purification is achieved and there is no relationship to a God.We believe that Jesus Chriist came into this world to save man and there is scripture which records the life of Christ.Buddhism and Christianity are poles apart, it is Divinity against masterialism and you cannot be both and I know because I live in a Buddhist country
 
Hi. I beg to differ.

The center of Buddhism is not nothingness (an experience in Zen meditation), but an awareness of suffering – both our own and others’ – and how to deal with it. It calls for meditation, compassion, and insight into ways of acting that make life better lived.

As a Catholic, I find being rooted in Buddhism keeps me more calm and rational – as opposed to Protestant versions of Christianity (on TV) which lead me to a more emotional tack to religion, lacking stability of character.

Truth does not negate truth: I am proud to call myself a Catholic-Buddhist-Humanist.
 
I have recently become interested in Buddhism as a philosophy. While I am a Catholic, believe in God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), the Bible, and sacred tradition, I also find myself sharing some common beliefs with Buddhists.

I don’t consider Buddhism a religion although it’s usually classified as one. There are no God(s) or Goddess(es) in Buddhism.

I was wondering if I could be a Catholic-Buddhist without going against Catholic teaching. Any thoughts?
 
My dear Buddhism is not a religion at all. it is a philosophy that claims that all our problems come form desire. if there is something you want it will cause problems and friction in your life and you have to go through 8 steps to achieve the ultimate Nirvana (which is really nothingness). that’s a Buddhism in a nut shell. this was explained to me by a Buddhist convert to Catholicism. so if you want to merge the two to suit your needs that you’d be going against basic Buddhist teaching and definitively against everything that Catholic Church teaches. My dear you would be committing a sin again the very First commandment I think there was a conflict within you about this that’s why you did a smart thing in asking others for their opinion on the matter. i hope you will do what is smart and pleasing to God rather then jumping into something that you do not know what it is that your jumping into.

God bless you
 
Hello,

Anyone can be both Catholic and Buddhist. It does not matter whether you are Catholic or boddhist. You must respect both.

Thanks
Mike Wilson
 
The Buddhist see Buddha as a saint not as a god. Do I have that right?
Not strictly. A Buddha is more than a god and a saint is less than God. Which leaves the relative level of one of the many Buddhist gods and the Abrahamic God.
So because he’s considered a saint (holy person) by another religion it is okay for Catholics to have his statue because he’s not considered a god by his followers. Is that coherent?
Abraham and Moses are considered saints (or equivalent) in both Judaism and Islam. Is it therefore wrong to have statues of either Moses or Abraham. IIRC there is a statue of Moses in Saint Peter’s in Rome.
But Buddha doesn’t believe in a god but he did consider there might be many gods who are struggling still to reach their own Nirvana. Correct or not?
Correct.
Considering that Buddha, a saint of another “religion” (and Buddhism is considered a religion, is it not?) has a prescribed method by which he is to be honored, I believe for a Catholic to have him in his home is wrong.
Many Old Testament figures are ‘saints’ in Judaism, Islam and Bah’ai. Saint Brigit has may of the attributes of the pagan goddess Brigit. Things might not be as simple as you appear to want them to be.

rossum
 
It might be better to phrase that as “Some Buddhist meditation techniques and philosophical approaches can make you a better Catholic.”

rossum
And some Christian meditation techniques and philosophical approaches can make you a better Buddhist?😉
 
Hi. I beg to differ.

The center of Buddhism is not nothingness (an experience in Zen meditation), but an awareness of suffering – both our own and others’ – and how to deal with it. It calls for meditation, compassion, and insight into ways of acting that make life better lived.

As a Catholic, I find being rooted in Buddhism keeps me more calm and rational – as opposed to Protestant versions of Christianity (on TV) which lead me to a more emotional tack to religion, lacking stability of character.

Truth does not negate truth: I am proud to call myself a Catholic-Buddhist-Humanist.
If Buddhist Philosophy enable you to get rid of cravings of this world and help you to be a better disciplined person you will certainly be a better Catholic.However our Goal is to achieve eternal Glory in life after death by bieng a good honourable man who loves his neighbour.We must of course remember the words of Jesus Christ"No man can serve two masters"
 
Zen Buddhism in the life of a Christian is not a contradiction of beliefs or values.

In the Gospels and Epistles we would find many injunctions to live in imitation of Christ’s sacrifice, such as from Saint Paul in Philippians 2: 5-11 who says Christ emptied himself out in the obedience to the Will of the Father and to bring salvation to man, and did not seek or think “equality with God” something he was to be concerned with, but rather he was concerned in humbling himself fully as servant to the Will of the Father.

A Christian may be a Zen Buddhist and be Christ centered, and not worship idols, or believe in a “vacuum” rather than a soul.

The plain truth is that in practice Zen Christians believe in the doctrines of Christianity just as the Fathers of the Church, and the mystics of all ages have. Saint John of the Cross is describing in metaphor in the ASCENT TO MOUNT CARMEL the “dark night of the soul” as a time of “emptying out” to be prepared for the entering in of the Holy Spirit; Thomas a Kempis in IMITATION OF CHRIST repeatedly points to the first step in following Christ to dispose of one’s worldly and personal vices, sins, and attachments to material things, so as to be ready to accept the coming of Christ.

In Father Kennedy’s books ZEN’S GIFTS TO CHRISTIANS and ZEN SPIRIT, CHRISTIAN SPIRIT ( ISBN-10: 0826409199) and at his retreats, Masses, and lectures, says we are not adopting a form of Idolatry or Buddha-worship, or embracing anything other than that which Christ spoke of and showed us how to do…

Father Kennedy’s Zen teacher, although a Buddhist, said specifically to him, “I am not wanting to make you into a Buddhist, but rather to empty you out like Christ…” so you can live his love for God and man.

During mass at a Zen Retreat the readings lead Father Kennedy to speak about the issue in terms of the gospel story where Jesus redirects Peter and the fishermen after an exhausting day of fruitless fishing, to once again cast out their nets, and in their complaining and grumbling he exhorted them to CAST DEEPER and the result we all know, a catch so abundant that it burst the nets… This is then the same message of a Zen teacher to a student: Look, you self-serving egotistical efforts to gain paradise are not working, but if you empty yourself of you self, your inflated delusional self, then welcome in Christ’s words, you will obtain not only what you seek but more abundantly than you can imagine.

I have been studying the life and work of Gerard Manley Hopkins lately, and let me end with a quote from his biography by Paul Mariana, GERARD MANLEY HOPKINS – ISBN 10: 0-670-02031-7, page 296:
"And so while, 'Christ's life and character are such as appeal to all the world's admiration' there is 'one insight St. Paul gives us of it which is very secret' and seems to him [Paul] 'more touching and constraining than everything else is.; He means Paul's insight into Philippians 2. 5-11 into Christ's emptying of himself out of love for the Father and the human race. But more, it is his own deepest secret about how to live. Fir Christ, finding 'his human nature informed by the godhead--thought it nevertheless no snatching matter for him to be equal with God but annihilated himself, taking the form of servant; that is, he could not but see what he was. God, but he would see it as if he did not see it, and be it as if he were not, and instead of snatching at once at what all the time was his, or was himself, he EMPTIED or EXHAUSTED HIMSELF so far as that was possible, of godhead and behaved only as God's slave, as his creature, as man {and} humbled himself to...the death on the cross. It is this holding of himself back, 'Hopkins sees, which is "the root of all {Christ's} holiness and the imitation of this the root of all moral good in other men."
 
If Buddhist Philosophy enable you to get rid of cravings of this world and help you to be a better disciplined person you will certainly be a better Catholic.However our Goal is to achieve eternal Glory in life after death by bieng a good honourable man who loves his neighbour.We must of course remember the words of Jesus Christ"No man can serve two masters"
Sometimes it is easy to serve two masters, when they both tell you to do the same thing:Love others as you love yourself.
  • Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91.
    and
    To avoid all evil,
    to cultivate good,
    and to cleanse one’s mind -
    this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
Dhammapada 14:5

rossum
 
Not strictly. A Buddha is more than a god and a saint is less than God. Which leaves the relative level of one of the many Buddhist gods and the Abrahamic God.

Abraham and Moses are considered saints (or equivalent) in both Judaism and Islam. Is it therefore wrong to have statues of either Moses or Abraham. IIRC there is a statue of Moses in Saint Peter’s in Rome.

Correct.

Many Old Testament figures are ‘saints’ in Judaism, Islam and Bah’ai. Saint Brigit has may of the attributes of the pagan goddess Brigit. Things might not be as simple as you appear to want them to be.

rossum
Rossum, you are speaking as a Buddhist. Fine. I’m speaking as a Catholic. It is simple.

By Catholic “standards”, some Old Testament figures are prophets e.g. Moses who worshipped the One God before the birth of Christ, His Son. Our religion sprang from Judaism. We acknowledge the prophets but they are not saints. Yes, we have statues of the prophets and paintings of them. We ask for the intercession of the Saints as we are part of the Communion of Saints…those believers in heaven, those on earth, and the souls needing our prayers in Purgatory. These are the people who accepted Christ as the Son of the One True God. Buddha did not. He seems to have fluxuated from belief in many gods to being an agnostic or atheist.

Bah’ai does not believe in the Trinity. Can’t be a Catholic-Bah’ai.
Islam sees Jesus as a prophet but not the Son of God. And that’s why they’re not Christian.

Saint Brigit would never have been made a Saint in the Catholic Church if she worshipped pagan gods after a conversion. From the little I’ve read Brigit or Brigid was born Catholic.

From the tone of your post, I get the feeling you might think that by pointing out Buddha is a saint by Buddhist standards that this would make him acceptable to Catholics. It doesn’t.

You closed with a line about there not being an Ultimate Truth. We believe there is and that is the One True God, Jesus His Son, and the Holy Spirit. To be Catholic means you cannot abandon the Ultimate Truth.
 
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