Can you be both Catholic and Buddhist?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I’ll try to make this brief. About five or six years ago This Rock magazine had an interesting feature article entitled “Jesus vs. Buddha,” or something to that effect. After a fascinating five page side-by-side comparison the author concluded by stating the inescapable fact that “Jesus is God; Buddha is not.” In my opinion a serious academic and intellectual interest in Buddhism is totally incompatible with practicing one’s Catholic faith. But, then again, that’s merely one man’s opinion.

Why?

Can’t you study comparitive religions without BELIEVING in them?

 

[Contarini]

I googled the Rev. Kevin Thew Forrester.

Forrester was a Roman Catholic priest who left the Church and became an Episcopalian priest. Somewhere along his journey, he was “ordained” by the Buddhists. (And there was a big discussion re. what “ordained” means.) This did not go over with the conservative Epicopalians (go figure) when his name was offered as the sole candidate for bishop. But it was his lack of deep Christian theology indicated in his sermons which the bishop evaluating his records noted and caused him to recommend Forrester not be elevated.

I’ve read the comments on some of the sites. Considering just the fact that the Episcopal Church has had some issues including women ordination, practicing homosexuals as priests, issues re. abortion, clown masses, and some splitting with Canterbury, I would think prudent men/women would not have persued this especially after being confronted by the valid objections of many in your church. Please note those objections are the same as some Catholics here have been trying to get across to you. Obviously, you didn’t listen to them and you are not listening to those of another Church.

I have waited a couple of days to respond to this post, partly because I really should not be spending so much time on this forum, partly because I didn’t want to respond out of anger and frustration, and partly because I don’t know how to communicate with someone who responds to my posts as if I had said the opposite of what I actually said.

In my previous post (83), I said that I thought the rejection of Forrester+ as bishop was the right move, and done in the right way–in other words, whatever knee-jerk reactions many may have had to the phrase “Zen bishop,” the decision by many bishops to refuse to confirm him was based on actual defects in his theology.

This is what I have consistently been arguing for on this thread. When someone claims to be both Christian and Buddhist, what we need to do is look at the specifics of what they mean by “Christian” and what they mean by “Buddhist.” Generally, when we do this what we find is that one or the other is being compromised, often both. But that doesn’t excuse us from looking at the specifics.

I do think that some Buddhist beliefs and practices (by which I mean some beliefs and practices not explicitly or obviously part of traditional Christian belief and practice; obviously there are some basic things that the two traditions have always shared) are probably compatible with orthodox Christianity. But I remain uncertain as to what these might be, and I’m certainly open to being shown that any specific belief or practice is genuinely incompatible with Christianity. What I’m opposing on this thread is the blanket statement that no such beliefs or practices can possibly exist.

Edwin

 

[lareinatortura]

Why?

Can’t you study comparitive religions without BELIEVING in them?

Sailor Kenshin,

I think it is possible for one educate him or herself about other religions *without *believing in them. You know, I honestly think that it is this behavior/way of thinking–“Oh, I can’t study your religion simply because I don’t want to believe in it,” or “I can’t study your religion because it’s wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong!”–that makes us look so ridiculous and pretentious, frankly.

Why do we (Christians) shut ourselves off so much? I understand guarding our hearts and minds. But, it seems like some take it too far. It seems like some use Christianity to keep themselves in ignorance. Yes, we are to be in the world but not of it. However, we live with people who are in the world and of the world. How are we going to understand them if we do not try to do so? How are we going to reach them and connect with them if we do not understand them? (If we can connect with them, I think it will be easier for us to show them what God has to offer. I think that makes us better witnesses).

It seems to me that Christians are generally so uneducated about other religions–and cultures, at that–that they go around spreading misconceptions. That breeds resentment and anger. It creates a disconnect between us and non-Christians.

What good is it if we alienate everyone else because of our negative attitudes and only surround ourselves with other Christians because we get so offended by non-believers?

 

[Contarini]

Wow. .

I think there are a lot of people out there who seem to believe that all religions can, well, “blend.” That they “all fit together,” and that they “all lead to the same place.” (Especially these days! Thanks, Oprah. . Just kidding! ) I don’t think that’s true

I agree. It is rash to say that “all religions lead to the same place” or that “all religions are true” unless you have studied them all thoroughly. It is a much nicer thing to say than “all religions but mine are false” but typically just as thoughtless and ill-informed.

And the latter statement, however politically incorrect, is more justifiable in the sense that one may have reasons to think one’s own religion true (and thus to reject whatever in other religions conflict with it) without having direct experience of all other religions.

Buddhism possesses some truth, but Christianity is *the *truth.

I would prefer to say that Jesus is the truth. Christianity as a historical religion is not pure truth. Even Catholics, who believe that the official teachings of their Church are entirely true, recognize that the Church’s doctrines may yet have some developing to do and that the way the truth has been expressed and applied historically has often been imperfect.

Setting labels aside, I once heard a pastor say that Satan intertwines lies with the truth to trick us. I picture him sort of baiting a hook in attempts to “reel” us in.

I would say that the first statement is obviously true (all lies are twisted truth), and the metaphor of baiting a hook is thoroughly false. Of course Satan is always about the business of twisting the truth. But Satan can’t produce truth and goodness even in order to deceive us. So wherever we find truth and goodness, we should celebrate them as coming from God. Period. That’s the best way to resist Satan’s subtleties. Unfortunately, some conservative Christians are so afraid of Satan’s clever tricks that they won’t look at any truth expressed in terms they aren’t already familiar with, or coming to them from a source outside their own sect.

Edwin

 

[kdq042007]

The primary belief in Buddhism is that the self does not exist. Christianity has a belief in souls, which is akin to the very belief Buddhism aims to eliminate.

I am exploring Buddhism in such a way which is causing me to take another look at the catholic church, in new understanding. I would say a teaching is not that the self does not exist, but that a false self, created in ignorance, does. It is that false self ** that Buddhism** seeks to eliminate. The “true self” is not incompatable with ultimate truth.
My false self, I am discovering, has been my incorrect view of catholicism. The right view, is the truth I am discovering anew. I think the principles of Buddhism can be applied to understanding, whether of religious thought, or, as intended, human nature.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Since Buddhism predates Christianity by 500 years, perhaps Christianity is leading people astray leading to spiritual disaster through deliberate effort.

Having been a Catholic and having left Catholicism and Christianity, I can tell you that no book or other religion lead me away. Actually that isn’t quite true. I stopped believing in any all powerful creator after reading the bible. If you haven’t read every word of the bible then please don’t. It could destroy you faith.

I think that people find the religion or philosophy that suits them and helps them lead a good life. Some are born to it. Others have to search for it.

Don’t attack Christianity. It wouldn’t matter if Buddhism was 1000 years older, it still doesn’t make it better than Christianity.

And by the way, once you are baptized as a Catholic, it leaves a mark on your soul that can NEVER be replaced, even if you leave the Catholic faith and turn to a completely different religion. So therefore, whether you like it or not, you’re still a Catholic. Isn’t it wonderful?

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

I beg to differ Spiritus,

but I guess it comes down you define “respect.” I would like to think that I can respect Buddhism and Buddhists, while still being a Christian. For example, I don’t go around telling Buddists–and everyone else, for that matter–that they’re “wrong,” and that they “need to become Christians.” I don’t tell people that what they do or what they believe in is worthless or meaningless. At the same time, I don’t say that it is “good,” or “all right,” either. I just say nothing.

If the subject of religion comes up, I explain that I am a Christian. While I do talk to others about God, I don’t shove Christian beliefs in their faces and tell them what they should and should not do. I do not want to be a bad witness. It is not my place to judge them. I am human and thus am not perfect–I do judge others–but, I try to be respectful of other peoples’ religious beliefs because, well, their salvation is between them and God. Not them and I.

I guess, if I could put it short and sweet, I “respect” other religions by allowing their ‘practitioners’ to believe what they want to believe in peace. It doesn’t mean I am for what they believe in, it doesn’t mean that I don’t stand up for what I believe in. I just see it as avoiding unnecessary conflict and attempting to be a good witness by showing that I can coexist with others, even though I believe differently than they do.

I want to offer God to others, not force Him on them.

God still wants us to do our part. We’re free to judge a person’s actions. We can’t judge their thoughts or motives, but we can judge their actions. Catholicism is my religion, I don’t need to act like every religion out there is one I can be a part of. I am Catholic and shall be for eternity.

 

[Contarini]

Don’t attack Christianity.

It takes some cheek for a Christian to say this to a Buddhist, given the tone of many of the posts on this thread so far.

It wouldn’t matter if Buddhism was 1000 years older, it still doesn’t make it better than Christianity.

Indeed. Relative age doesn’t prove relative merit. But when a religion has been around that long, one can surmise that it’s because humans have found it of some value.

I think notself’s point is that Catholics are happy to appeal to antiquity against Protestants and other johnny-come-latelys.

Edwin

 

[Donkey_Gong]

Yes. We can be both Catholic and Buddhist. We got that free will, man

 

[soma]

You have to be a good Catholic to understand Buddhism and you have to be a good Buddhist to understand Catholicism.

 

[Ahimsa]

I can barely type.

You’re kidding, right?

 

[notself]

Don’t attack Christianity. It wouldn’t matter if Buddhism was 1000 years older, it still doesn’t make it better than Christianity.

And by the way, once you are baptized as a Catholic, it leaves a mark on your soul that can NEVER be replaced, even if you leave the Catholic faith and turn to a completely different religion. So therefore, whether you like it or not, you’re still a Catholic. Isn’t it wonderful?

I was responding to this statement by polycarp:

Many faiths contain elements to lead seekers away from the Truth, but often it is packaged in very appealling ways that seem lovely on the surface but ended up leading to spiritual disaster. This is no accident, but a deliberate effort to lead people away from the Truth.

With this statement polycarp was saying that other religions make a conscious effort to lead people away from Catholicism. I pointed out that since Buddhism predates Christianity, the statement could be reversed. It was not an attack against Christianity.

I have heard the statement “once a Catholic always a Catholic” on many occasions. It makes no sense since the statement flies in the face of free will. If I choose not to follow Catholic belief and I no long see them as true, then I can reject them because I have free will.

 

[I_Fortuna]

I have recently become interested in Buddhism as a philosophy. While I am a Catholic, believe in God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), the Bible, and sacred tradition, I also find myself sharing some common beliefs with Buddhists.

I don’t consider Buddhism a religion although it’s usually classified as one. There are no God(s) or Goddess(es) in Buddhism.

I was wondering if I could be a Catholic-Buddhist without going against Catholic teaching. Any thoughts?

No! Even though you fail to mention the sect of Buddhism you are interested in, I can tell from 30 years as a Buddhist and studying Asian culture and religion that there is no sect known to me that does not have gods and godesses attached to it.

There are hundreds of Buddhist sects and I tend to believe that you are referring to Nichiren Shoshu or the Soka Gakkai both of which are very active in the United States and worldwide.

Buddhism is a religion and widely followed in many Asian countries and around the world.

Buddhism is a philosophy of life as well and it intersects with Christianity very well in some ways, but there is no Lord and no Savior and to practice Buddhism while practicing Catholicism is like saying that Christ does not have all you need. It is like cheating on your spouse.

Buddhism is a very attractive teaching with some merit, however, there are the same problems that everyone deals with day in and day out. There is no magic formula that solves your problems in Buddhism or makes you enlightened. Only experience and time can do that. There is no short although they promise one.

Buddhists will try to encourage you to believe that by doing certain things you will change your karma. (consequences of your actions)

The things you can do to change your karma are to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and live according to His teachings and the teachings of the Catholic Church. You have a far better chance of success with prayers to our Lord or the intercession of Mary and the Saints than prayers offered to a scroll (Gohonzon) or a statue of Buddha.

You cannot be loyal and true to God and be a Buddhist simultaneously. Buddhists say they have no problem with you practicing other religions, but that is meant to get you into their group. They will most likely ask you to subscribe to their magazine and newspaper if it is SGI or NSA. They make billions of dollars off of this lie. Later they will tell you that to see if Buddhism is effective you must not practice any other religion for a while. This is the insidious method used to get converts.

From my own personal experience, I wasted 30 years but learned discipline and how to pray a lot. This you can do without leaving the church.

Please do not consider Buddhism over the Catholic Church. Save your money and your breath for activities that the church needs you for. Be faithful and obedient to god and you will be rewarded, of that I am certain. PM me if you want more info.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

I was responding to this statement by polycarp:

With this statement polycarp was saying that other religions make a conscious effort to lead people away from Catholicism. I pointed out that since Buddhism predates Christianity, the statement could be reversed. It was not an attack against Christianity.

I have heard the statement “once a Catholic always a Catholic” on many occasions. It makes no sense since the statement flies in the face of free will. If I choose not to follow Catholic belief and I no long see them as true, then I can reject them because I have free will.

Free will yes, but what I’m saying is that you’re still truely a Catholic even if you don’t consider yourself one or follow Catholic beliefs. You can look it up if you don’t believe me.

 

[Polycarp1]

I was responding to this statement by polycarp:
With this statement polycarp was saying that other religions make a conscious effort to lead people away from Catholicism. I pointed out that since Buddhism predates Christianity, the statement could be reversed. It was not an attack against Christianity.
QUOTE]

While I believe that some religions do make a malicious and conscious effort to lead people astray, but most followers of false doctrines are simply deceived by the false prophets that were foretold in the New Testament. i.e.: The Peoples Temple - Jonestown. Many of these honestly and naively believe that what they have been told is true and often much of that is anti-catholic as that is not where the father of lies wants people to go.

 

[Polycarp1]

I was responding to this statement by polycarp:

With this statement polycarp was saying that other religions make a conscious effort to lead people away from Catholicism. I pointed out that since Buddhism predates Christianity, the statement could be reversed. It was not an attack against Christianity.

While I believe that some religions do make a malicious and conscious effort to lead people astray, but most followers of false doctrines are simply deceived by the false prophets that were foretold in the New Testament. i.e.: The Peoples Temple - Jonestown. Many of these honestly and naively believe that what they have been told is true and often much of that is anti-catholic as that is not where the father of lies wants people to go.

 

[emil2804]

No.

My wife, a life-long Catholic, is originally from an Asian country. Many, many people have statues of the Buddha in their homes. It’s more of a cultural thing. My wife spent many years working for the Church in her native country and I had the opportunity to visit with some of the priests she worked with. Even some of them had statues of the Buddha in their homes. I seriously doubt that they were practicing idolatry.

I am a lifelong Catholic from an Asian country (India) which has many Buddhists. Many non-Buddhists including Catholics have a small statues of a potbellied laughing Buddha in their homes. It is not worshiped. One might therefore say there is no idol worship involved. However, it is a common superstitious belief that this statue brings luck to the home. I find this completely incompatible with my faith where I believe that God controls everything and he would hardly decide on the extent of my blessing based on my keeping this idol in the house. My wife and I have spoken to many Catholics who had such idols at home. Most have either got rid of it or probably hide it away when we visit

 

[Dale_M]

No! Even though you fail to mention the sect of Buddhism you are interested in

This would be interesting to know. I would also be interested in learning what is her approach to Buddhism is i.e. does she see it as a religion or a school of philosophy or what?

We’ve had a rather lengthy discussion now, but I’ve noticed she hasn’t commented since her first post.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Sailor Kenshin,

I think it is possible for one educate him or herself about other religions *without *believing in them. You know, I honestly think that it is this behavior/way of thinking–“Oh, I can’t study your religion simply because I don’t want to believe in it,” or “I can’t study your religion because it’s wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong!”–that makes us look so ridiculous and pretentious, frankly.

Why do we (Christians) shut ourselves off so much? I understand guarding our hearts and minds. But, it seems like some take it too far. It seems like some use Christianity to keep themselves in ignorance. Yes, we are to be in the world but not of it. However, we live with people who are in the world and of the world. How are we going to understand them if we do not try to do so? How are we going to reach them and connect with them if we do not understand them? (If we can connect with them, I think it will be easier for us to show them what God has to offer. I think that makes us better witnesses).

It seems to me that Christians are generally so uneducated about other religions–and cultures, at that–that they go around spreading misconceptions. That breeds resentment and anger. It creates a disconnect between us and non-Christians.

What good is it if we alienate everyone else because of our negative attitudes and only surround ourselves with other Christians because we get so offended by non-believers?

I’m pretty sure that priests like Fadda Mitch have studied other religions to an extent that would put most scholars to shame.

I guess much depends on one’s personality. Jesus ate with sinners but some of us would be in grave danger, doing the same.

 

[kdq042007]

I have waited a couple of days to respond to this post, partly because I really should not be spending so much time on this forum, partly because I didn’t want to respond out of anger and frustration, and partly because I don’t know how to communicate with someone who responds to my posts as if I had said the opposite of what I actually said.

In my previous post (83), I said that I thought the rejection of Forrester+ as bishop was the right move, and done in the right way–in other words, whatever knee-jerk reactions many may have had to the phrase “Zen bishop,” the decision by many bishops to refuse to confirm him was based on actual defects in his theology.

This is what I have consistently been arguing for on this thread. When someone claims to be both Christian and Buddhist, what we need to do is look at the specifics of what they mean by “Christian” and what they mean by “Buddhist.” Generally, when we do this what we find is that one or the other is being compromised, often both. But that doesn’t excuse us from looking at the specifics.

I do think that some Buddhist beliefs and practices (by which I mean some beliefs and practices not explicitly or obviously part of traditional Christian belief and practice; obviously there are some basic things that the two traditions have always shared) are probably compatible with orthodox Christianity. But I remain uncertain as to what these might be, and I’m certainly open to being shown that any specific belief or practice is genuinely incompatible with Christianity. What I’m opposing on this thread is the blanket statement that no such beliefs or practices can possibly exist.

Edwin

In response to another post, I think an intellectual,academic interest in Buddhism, or any other faith for that matter, is healthy and aids in understanding of how others relate to and perceive Christianity; in that regard we become better equipped for dialogue. Or at the very least we have the opportunity to know ourselves better. Contarini/Edwin- I have read with interest your posts, and others response to yours. It does seem that the very ego and self that Buddhism seeks to remove became very invested in defending its points on occasion, but it is worthy of note that the majority of the posts serve to allow one to question their perspective. I think how Buddhists percieve the world, as far as the human condition, goes a long way, at least for me, in understanding why we humans attach to a need for religion and faith, and why we continue to hope for something more. It has become easier for me, a once a Catholic still trying to be a Christain, to believe in God and biblical promisies, when I understand deeply how I can get in my own way on the way to faith. Buddhism, as you know, was not initially intended as a religion. It is however very pragmatic, and “speaks my language”. Its basic tenants have helped me distinguish clearly what is MY truth, and was is the potential for ULTIMATE truth. I know that I, and any particular faith, do not have all the answers that logic would require; this is why I have to surrender to faith along the way. Simply, understanding how the mind and levels of consciousness work help me to understand myself, and from there, understand and embrace the possiblity of God. Sorry I am rambling; I think that I can benefit from understanding of both traditions, and have to ultimately make a choice, from free will, who I will serve. A blanket statement that the two are not compatable on some level is simply ignorance and attachment. When we abandon our expectations of how we think things must be, I think the reality of how things ARE becomes clear. Thank you for such a lively discussion and interesting perspectives from all. Om Mani Padme Hum . Creo; ayude mi incredulidad.