Can you be both Catholic and Buddhist?

[Mystic_Warrior]

Mystic Warrior;6590319:

www.kbi.com.au

“Brahma, the great sovereign of the universe, and Indra, the Lord of the gods and angels, knew that the great enlightened wisdom of the Buddha was now manifest in this world, Brahma appeared and offered to the Buddha a thousand-spoked gold wheel and Indra offered the most rare clockwise spiraling conch shell.
These supremely auspicious tokens of veneration they offered to the Buddha, beseeching him to turn the wheel of Dharma for the benefit of all sentient beings. In response to this majestic supplication made by the Lord of the universe, Brahma, and Indra, king of the gods, Buddha Shakyamuni consented to turn the wheel of teachings.”

Vultures Peak, Deer Park, Sarnath, Nepal

Thank you. The difference is that you originally said,

Buddhist Teaching - When Siddhatha Ghutama achieved Enlightenment the Gods begged him to turn the wheel of dhamma, to teach them.

According to the text, they wanted Siddhartha to teach all sentient beings. That’s the point. They knew his teaching was wonderful and wanted him to share it. They weren’t on their knees looking for salvation. They were beings who saw the value in what he had to teach. That’s what I take away from the passage.

Salvation in early Buddhism was “nirnana”, the extinguishing of all the karma that constitutes the self.

It appears that we’ll continue to go in circles because now you are equating Nirvana with salvation. Nirvana is not nor ever was salvation. It is not the extinguishing of karma and there is no self that it constitutes.

Stated in the third of the Four Noble Truths

There is no mention of karma or self in the Third Noble truth. The Third noble truth speaks simply of the end of greed, anger and delusion - that it is attainable - that it is the state of nirvana. The Fourth truth explains how to attain the cessation of them. It’s pretty elementary Buddhism.

For a Buddhist the Path is by means of the awakening mind.
The word ‘Buddha’ is based in the word unfolding, as in a bud unfurling to a flower.

I don’t like to get too tied up in wording or translation because it is difficult. But generally I agree with this.

In this light, the Christian God is a finite being.

Well…yes. That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

Understanding of Buddhist cosmological concepts and acceptable compatibility with Catholic Dogma are refuted.

Well…yes. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. The two systems are incompatible.

“Can you be both Catholic and Buddhist?” They appear to be in fundamental opposition, major tenets are disputed.

Well, yes, they are in fundamental opposition. Major tenets are disputed? I don’t quite understand what you mean here. Maybe I’m just dull in mind. In fact, I know my mind is clouded with greed, anger and delusion. Perhaps we’ll continue discussion a bit more, but I’m hoping the communication is better.

Peace…

MW

 

[kdq042007]

At the risk of starting another thread, I would like to ask this: Can the spiritualites of Catholicism and Buddhism be compatible? I would say yes. Theologically, they differ. Spirituality is not religion. Religion is not faith. Religion supports spirituality. Religion helps one define faith.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

According to the text, they wanted Siddhartha to teach all sentient beings. That’s the point. They knew his teaching was wonderful and wanted him to share it. They weren’t on their knees looking for salvation. They were beings who saw the value in what he had to teach. That’s what I take away from the passage.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

At the risk of starting another thread, I would like to ask this: Can the spiritualites of Catholicism and Buddhism be compatible? I would say yes. Theologically, they differ. Spirituality is not religion. Religion is not faith. Religion supports spirituality. Religion helps one define faith.

I doubt it - Catholic spirituality is dependence upon the Grace of God through relationship with Christ as a primary concept.
Buddhism spirituality is by means of self-realization through an individual’s faithful practice of Buddha Dhamma.

 

[dramaqueen]

it’s quite a heated discussion on he topic. i’ve learned a lot but i still strongly believe you cannot be both. there is no way you can when it comes to religion u cannot be lukewarm or use bit and pieces you find attractive from another religion or philosophy and then use them how it suits you. i don’t think it works like that, besides…that’s New Age right? U can learn about other religion to know you enemy but if you believe in it and the catholic church you could be jeopardizing your salvation. at least that’s what i’ve been tough in my catechism classes.

 

[soma]

Experience God and have a relationship don’t let other people describe it to you.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Hold fast to the Catholic Faith: “Yet that which you have, hold fast till I come” (Ap. 2:25)
Christ warns us not to mix in other religions: “But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth” (Ap. 3:16)
Nor to follow those who try to seduce others: “But I have against thee a few things: because thou sufferest the woman Jezabel, who calleth herself a prophetess, to teach, and to seduce my servants, to commit fornication, and to eat of things sacrificed to idols. And I give her a time that she might do penance, and she will not repent of her fornication. Behold I will cast her into a bed: and they that commit adultery with her shall be in very great tribulation, except they do penance from their deeds. And I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and hearts, and I will give to every one according to your works” (Ap. 2:20-23)

 

[lareinatortura]

Indeed. Relative age doesn’t prove relative merit. **But when a religion has been around that long, one can surmise that it’s because humans have found it of some value.

Edwin**

Emphasis mine. Awesome point. I agree.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

lareinatortura:
Emphasis mine. Awesome point. I agree.

Yes but what is valued? Sociological identity? To the general public Buddhism, as it was in Buddha’s own time, false doctrines have arisen, and misinterpretation is frequent. Buddhism is little understood, even in the works of some scholars.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

At the risk of starting another thread, I would like to ask this: Can the spiritualites of Catholicism and Buddhism be compatible? I would say yes. Theologically, they differ. Spirituality is not religion. Religion is not faith. Religion supports spirituality. Religion helps one define faith.

No. Why are you so interested in Buddhism? It does nothing to help you become a better Catholic.

 

[rossum]

No. Why are you so interested in Buddhism? It does nothing to help you become a better Catholic.

People are different. While Buddhist approaches and insights may not be useful to you other people may find them to be helpful. Meditation can involve just sitting, counting and breathing. Is there anything against Catholicism in sitting, counting or breathing?

If someone else finds it to be helpful then why not let them use such techniques?

rossum

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

People are different. While Buddhist approaches and insights may not be useful to you other people may find them to be helpful.

Other people, Buddhist people.

Meditation can involve just sitting, counting and breathing. Is there anything against Catholicism in sitting, counting or breathing?

This is a preliminary practice in Buddhism (anapanasatti). It calms the mind, Sogyal R(name removed by moderator)oche says “Bring the mind home.” From there Tibetan Buddhism focuses the mind on a specific form, image or deity.

If someone else finds it to be helpful then why not let them use such techniques?

Meditation can involve just sitting, counting and breathing, but this is not a specifically Buddhist technique.
The danger of this technique is it can lead to disengagement.
Having calmed the mind, we then need to practice virtue. A Catholic anchors himself in the grace of God, realizing his total dependence on God.
Buddhist doctrine is reducible to a statement on the law of causality.

 

[rossum]

Other people, Buddhist people.

Other people, Catholic people.

This is a preliminary practice in Buddhism (anapanasatti). It calms the mind, Sogyal R(name removed by moderator)oche says “Bring the mind home.” From there Tibetan Buddhism focuses the mind on a specific form, image or deity.

And in Theravada Buddhism more advanced practitioners drop the counting so they just sit and observe their breathing. In Zen you just sit and do not observe your breathing. Some Catholics may find these practices useful. Others may prefer practices such as the Jesus Prayer or the Rosary. What is specifically Buddhist about counting, breathing or sitting?

Meditation can involve just sitting, counting and breathing, but this is not a specifically Buddhist technique.

Yes, it is a preliminary exercise which is also found in Hinduism and possibly Jainism as well. Which just goes to show that this technique is not tied to one particular religion but can be useful to practitioners of different religions.

Buddhist doctrine is reducible to a statement on the law of causality.

Is not Christianity also so reducible? “Do X, Y and Z and you will be saved.”

rossum

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Other people, Catholic people.

 

[lareinatortura]

Yes but what is valued? Sociological identity? To the general public Buddhism, as it was in Buddha’s own time, false doctrines have arisen, and misinterpretation is frequent. Buddhism is little understood, even in the works of some scholars.

I could be wrong here, but I think the same thing has happened to Christianity. It seems to me that Christianity is often misunderstood and misinterpreted, even by those who were raised Christian.

Your question is hard to answer. I think it really depends on who you ask. In my eyes, some important realizations are found in Buddhism, thus it has some value to me. I also think it has cultural significance.

(I understand that my above comment was a bit confusing. “Christianity” is a general term, as there are different denominations. However, I felt I had to keep it general–I did not want to single out a particular group. )

 

[KarlJ2112]

I recently came across this lengthy discussion and it caught my interest. I have worked with many people for over a decade who were in the process of becoming a Catholic. Some were agnostic, some Buddhist, many versions of Protestant, etc. I would have to say that having read all 12+ pages of postings in the last two hours I was actually quite discouraged as if I were someone seeking to learn the difference between the two different beliefs I would run away from many of you. I notice on many of these forums the standard answer is well it’s not Catholic so you better not look at it which is fine if all you’re going to do is talk to other converted Catholics, but if you’re going to share Christ with others that’s not going to fly. One person cited the Catechism about The Church recognizing and accepting the truths in other faiths that were actually true. Many things that Buddhists believe are part of Natural law and are actually true. Some aren’t as indicated but someone else quoting the Vatican on its statements about Eastern Religions and related issues. If there is to a meaningful conversation it doesn’t help to run around saying I’m right like some academic school exam. Oh I’m better cause I know more right answers and you’re not because you believe something wrongly. Case and point having just said that some of you probably want to flame me, some of you agree with me.

The way I look at it is this …One day two students found some books in a junk pile both were missing covers. The first read his book and learned everything he could and ran off to tell his friend. His friend had also done the same. They met at the park and began to tell each other about their books and then they began to argue about who was right. Soon their teacher came by and overheard the argument and laughed. He then explained that they found some worn out, damaged copies of another text they hadn’t yet seen. The first student had just a few complete chapters and the the second student had more chapters but some of the pages had been torn out or were illegible. The teacher complimented them on their diligence and suggested they study together and see what the other had missed.

I don’t know everything. I can always learn something new. How do we tell others of Jesus if we can’t get past being right?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

“How many millions of souls, among infidels and heretics, are deprived of the sacraments, of sermons, of good example, and of the helps to salvation which we (as Catholics) possess in the true Church. And the Lord resolved to bestow on us all these great graces, without any merit on our part, and even with the foreknowledge of our demerits. For, when he thought of creating us and of conferring these favours upon us, he foresaw our sins, and the injuries which we would commit against him” (St Alphonsus Liguori)

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

People are different. While Buddhist approaches and insights may not be useful to you other people may find them to be helpful. Meditation can involve just sitting, counting and breathing. Is there anything against Catholicism in sitting, counting or breathing?

If someone else finds it to be helpful then why not let them use such techniques?

rossum

That’s easy for you to say, you’re not a Catholic. If you were you’d realize that Catholics aren’t supposed to have anything to do with other religions.

 

[EbonyEve]

Be neither. Just love everyone.
Don’t be a name.
Be endless.
Like God.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Be neither. Just love everyone.
Don’t be a name.
Be endless.
Like God.

God doesn’t love everyone!
God is Love and Justice.