Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

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That is exactly the problem with this thread - it simply deals with American Catholicism and American politics, as if those were somehow representative of the whole. Most non-American Catholics would find that even asking a question such as can a Catholic be a liberal was silly.
I agree.

Personally, I think that a Catholic point of view can be “left” or “right” politically. I think that in either case, there probably should be an emphasis on compassion and charity, but the question is about approach: should that compassion and charity be done through the public sector or the private sector?
I find the Canadian political perspective on abortion in a way more honest. I’d also point out that the idea of “changing the law” on abortion in Canada is a bit misleading, because the last law there was was struck down and there has never been a replacement.
Well, at present it’s legal, which is what I was getting at. Maybe instead of saying “the law”, it would have been better for me to have said “the state of the law”.
 
The main issue here seem to be the liberal embrace of abortion rights. Abortion incurrs automatic excommunication from the Church. Some one had asked “What have Republicans done for the pro-life cause?” Going back to the Clinton Administration, it was Republicans to introduced the Partial Birth Abortion Ban. Almost every Republican in the House and Senate voted for the ban and only a few courageous Democrats. Pres. Clinton vetoed the ban and it was reintroduced later when President Bush signed it into law. President Bush had the opportunity to nominate 2 Supreme Court justices and he chose highly qualified men who are strict contructionists, meaning they take the Constitution as the Founders wrote it and do not read their own personal agendas into it. Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution and should be a matter left to states to decide. (I think that’s a moderate position between Roe v Wade and the proposed Human Life Amendment, yet the Left sees it as “extreme right-wing.”)
In the current health care reform debate, it is conservative Republican Senators who are trying to add amendments to the Senate bill to prohibit taxpayer funding of abortions in the bill and to guarantee conscience protections for medical professionals who do not want to perform or refer for abortions.
But, Yes, you can can be Catholic (pro-life) and liberal. Former PA Gov. Robert Casey Sr.(liberal Democrat) who died in 2000 was a paragon of pro-life witness. His son, Bob Casey Jr. comes close to 100% consistency on life issues. On other issues, such as how best to help the poor, I disagree with Casey Jr, but when it comes to worship I feel that we are in union with the Church militant and the Church triumphant. (I assume that he believes in the Real Presence.)
 
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese

Whyever shouldn’t it be possible ? 🙂 Reading these fora can be a culture shock - for example, being left-wing and Catholic is entirely unremarkable in the UK, but appears to be unusual, even shocking, in the US. I can see why some people might think that being Catholic requires some variety of conservatism - but the word is meaningless unless one knows what is being conserved, & and why: neither “conservatism” nor “liberalism” is a value in itself; both are qualities of things other than themselves. In Scholastic language, they are accidents, not substances. So one has to ask “conservative in what respect ?”, “liberal in what respect ?”. And one can perfectly well be a political liberal in some ways, yet be politically conservative in others. What this means in practice, depends on what the political culture of one’s country is: by UK standards, the USA seems to be extremely right-wing; the UK may be nightmarishly left-inclined by some US standards. One country’s political liberalism may well be socialism, or else something on the far right, by the standards of value usual in another counntry. Which affects how one answers your question 🙂 It’s the same sort of question as “How long is a piece of string ?” - there is no one answer.​

 

Whyever shouldn’t it be possible ? 🙂 Reading these fora can be a culture shock - for example, being left-wing and Catholic is entirely unremarkable in the UK, but appears to be unusual, even shocking, in the US. I can see why some people might think that being Catholic requires some variety of conservatism - but the word is meaningless unless one knows what is being conserved, & and why: neither “conservatism” nor “liberalism” is a value in itself; both are qualities of things other than themselves. In Scholastic language, they are accidents, not substances. So one has to ask “conservative in what respect ?”, “liberal in what respect ?”. And one can perfectly well be a political liberal in some ways, yet be politically conservative in others. What this means in practice, depends on what the political culture of one’s country is: by UK standards, the USA seems to be extremely right-wing; the UK may be nightmarishly left-inclined by some US standards. One country’s political liberalism may well be socialism, or else something on the far right, by the standards of value usual in another counntry. Which affects how one answers your question 🙂 It’s the same sort of question as “How long is a piece of string ?” - there is no one answer.​

Catholics gave their heart and soul and money to the US and got spat on by lazy protestants. Who give you a wild eyed look if you dare ask them about the blair ammendments. The man was a bigot beyond belief.
 
The main issue here seem to be the liberal embrace of abortion rights. Abortion incurrs automatic excommunication from the Church. Some one had asked “What have Republicans done for the pro-life cause?” Going back to the Clinton Administration, it was Republicans to introduced the Partial Birth Abortion Ban. Almost every Republican in the House and Senate voted for the ban and only a few courageous Democrats. Pres. Clinton vetoed the ban and it was reintroduced later when President Bush signed it into law.
There are definite differences between the two major parties in regard to party planks and policy regarding abortion. That does not mean that everyone in a particular party agrees with the party position. There are pro-life Democrats and pro-abortion Republicans. Most Americans, though are unaware of most of what each Administration does in regard to abortion. The programs they start, what gets funded or de-funded, the laws or restriction enacted or repealed, and so on.

Obama is the most pro-abort of any president so far. There was much more that Republican presidents could have achieved as presidents in regard to dealing with the abortion problem. But the Democratic Party will not select a presidential candidate who is not pro-abortion. Republicans, in general prefer a pro-life president. (But I don’t consider warmonger pro-life presidents to be very consistent in their pro-life position). The Democratic Party and its presidential candidates, on the other hand, receive enormous financial support from the abortion industry and its allies, and this determines much of what happens during an election and what a pro-abort Democrat does in office for the abortion industry.
President Bush had the opportunity to nominate 2 Supreme Court justices and he chose highly qualified men who are strict contructionists, meaning they take the Constitution as the Founders wrote it and do not read their own personal agendas into it. Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution and should be a matter left to states to decide. (I think that’s a moderate position between Roe v Wade and the proposed Human Life Amendment, yet the Left sees it as “extreme right-wing.”)
I disagree with you here. Abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution but the Constitution when read properly prohibits abortion. Justice Blackmum realized this in the Roe v. Wade case. The constitutional issue centers on the “Due Process” clause in the 5th and 14th Amendments, which basically state that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without dues process of law. The 5th Amendment binds the federal government and the 14th Amendment binds the states. Due Process refers to legal proceedings, and since the unborn cannot be guilty of any crime, they cannot be legally denied the right to life.

Blackmum said if the unborn are considered “persons” according to the 14th Amendment, then the plaintiffs case fails. Blackmum refused to consider the scientific evidence presented to the Court showing that the prenatal child is a person. Even though “person” in the language of the 14th Amendment simply meant “human being”, Blackmum said the Court was not capable of deciding the issue of personhood. He proceeded to come up with a new doctrine to allow abortion: “the right to privacy” found in the penumbras emanating from the Bill of Rights. Huh?

However, the unborn are clearly persons according to a proper reading of “Due Process”. Even corporations are afforded the legal status of fictitious personhood. So, with a proper reading, the federal government and the states are not allowed abortion. If they are legally prohibited from engaging in abortion related activities, then it follows logically and necessarily that no organization, person, or agency in any state can be permitted either to commit abortions.

The upshot of my argument is that it is not strictly constitutional to return the abortion problem back to the individual states to decide on their own. The conservatives on the Court prefer to turn abortion back to the states, but such a view buys into the principle of the non-personhood of the pre-born. The current conservatives on the Court are not in all things strict constructionists or uncompromisingly pro-life.

Also, the Framers stipulated that the Constitution should never be interpreted apart from the Declaration of Independence. Specifically, this entails interpreting the Constitution according to the natural moral law, or the “Laws of Nature and Nature’s God”, as the Declaration words it. And that speaks volumes in regard to how far removed we are from true Constitutional government.
 
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese
Well, if not then Jesus could not be a Catholic if he lived in our time. Jesus was a liberal, by definition.

Bucky
 
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese
:mad:
My opinion is that With GOD there is no GRAY area, There is Black and White and Basically YOU CAN NOT be a liberal and be a TRUE Catholic Christian! My fellow brothers and Sisters, We have to concentrate on the Core Moral values and nothing else, because when we have a GOD as the center of our Country then Everything else will fall into place. We must surrender it all to Our Heavenly father and stand firm on the teachings that Jesus Christ stood for and left behing for us to follow.
God Bless you all,
Love your SIC
Yari 👍
 
First lets get the words correct…‘conservative’ as stated in the dictionary means ‘one who is for the status quo"…and ‘liberal’ is for individual freedom…so to be ‘conservative’ in America since about 1912 is to be on the left for more and more of our freedoms have been lost to a strong central government…a nanny fed! Liberals are for individual freedom without an oppressive centralized gov…I call a ‘cafeteria’ Catholic one who chooses what he or she is comfortable with or must believe and practice to be popular and pc…re cowardly or an opportunist. Jesus was hated by the establishment of His day and as one watchs,(with a strong stomach) the so called history studies on the boob tube…is even more so today…so the teachings of Jesus are under attack as never before in this nation. Error is on the throne and truth on the scaffold! When the Vatican is lampooned and called ‘out of touch’ with modern day progressive thinking…then the game plan is evident and to be "Catholic’ is thus to be going uphill and against the wind…of secularism…all the best…Pas
 
Well, what beliefs of theirs makes them “left wing”? If it is not Abortion, is it euthanasia, the death penalty, pro-homosexuality, or something else?

The “Liberal” agenda appears to encompass ALL of these (among many others contrary to the Faith). So if one believes in only a few select items, they view themselves as “leaning left”. But, in my opinion and in seeing the effects on several close to me, the road quickly leads to affirming all of the liberal agenda.
I noticed 3 logos at the bottom of your post-2 I recognise. I recognise the middle one as the emblem for the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter (FSSP), a community of Roman Catholic priests dedicated to saying the Traditional Latin Mass (or Extraordinary Form.) Ans the 3rd one is for the Knights of Columbus. What’s the first one?
 
First lets get the words correct…‘conservative’ as stated in the dictionary means ‘one who is for the status quo"…and ‘liberal’ is for individual freedom…so to be ‘conservative’ in America since about 1912 is to be on the left for more and more of our freedoms have been lost to a strong central government…a nanny fed! Liberals are for individual freedom without an oppressive centralized gov…I call a ‘cafeteria’ Catholic one who chooses what he or she is comfortable with or must believe and practice to be popular and pc…re cowardly or an opportunist. Jesus was hated by the establishment of His day and as one watchs,(with a strong stomach) the so called history studies on the boob tube…is even more so today…so the teachings of Jesus are under attack as never before in this nation. Error is on the throne and truth on the scaffold! When the Vatican is lampooned and called ‘out of touch’ with modern day progressive thinking…then the game plan is evident and to be "Catholic’ is thus to be going uphill and against the wind…of secularism…all the best…Pas
I’m not sure dictionary definitions really do justice to the meaning of the words in this context. Especially if you aren’t using a complete dictionary. The study of both terms in the worldwide political context is much more complicated than this, and classical “Liberalism” is not just a tendency to support individual freedom.
 
Lil luv…I’ve been a practicing Catholic all my life, and my family situation is about the same as yours…My immediate family is very conservative and my extended is more liberal.

I think that to be Catholic requires indeed a “transcendent” party relation…in other words, you’re conservative on Church doctrine, liberal on other things. For the most part, I see that the Republican party is the way to go because on the whole they support our pro-life stance (to me, pro-life specifically means not accepting abortion), but on other things, like being too harsh to their fellow man (government should have no role in helping the needy) is understandable but misguided. Government, in relation to the Church, should neither dominate the Church’s role, seeming like the ONLY caregiver to the needy in our nation, nor should they be totally limited (how could we protect ourselves, our financial securities with a government that cannot organise itself or raise taxes?). The Government should be neither an extension of the Church’s authority, nor be opposed to the Church. That’s what the Founding Fathers wanted, and that’s what should be kept! Government in my opinion steals the role of caregiver from the Church with things like Social Security, and such, and so people often trust the government with handling their messups. But people often forget that the Government can messup a whole lot too, even moreso at times than the people. That’s particularly why Conservatives like to limit government, besides that if it’s too powerful it will abuse its role and give free reign to the party in office.

The Democratic party has certainly thrown itself into the far-left side of things, which goes to show with them electing leaders like Barack No-Wana, Harry Please (Reid) and Nancy Pelosi (ugh…). So I don’t think I’d ever vote Democrat, if it stays as liberal as it professes. There are some Democrats out there who stick with Church positions, but mostly it’s a one-sided party.

If You support the Church on all its positions, and fully understand its positions in all the contexts of our modern world (contraception, welfare, war, etc.) and form your opinions based on that, you’ll be heading down the right path. God expects us to think and do our best in each situation.

But yea, to me if you’re a practicing, thinking Catholic in America, you tend to lean Conservative. People might disagree with me, but that’s my conclusion.
 
The problem with answering this question lies with the question itself. As some have indicated, the very terms “liberal” and “conservative” have taken on meanings that are very opposite of what they were 80 - 100 years ago. Conservatives today are what we would define as “classical liberals” in the 19th Century (note the root of both liberty and liberal is the Latin for “free”)

Even “left” and “right” are mis-defined by the media these days. The correct definition of “Left-wing” means you favor more government; “Right-wing” means you favor less. Communist totalitarianism is the extreme of left-wing policies. Anarchy is the extreme of right-wing thought, not fascism as the media would have you believe. Hitler and Mussolini were both left-wing dictators, not right wing (the “Nazi” party’s full name was the National SOCIALIST German Workers Party). Arguably, there can be no such thing as a right wing dictator, but anarchy is hardly more attractive than a Stalin-type dictatorship, so both extremes are bad. Very bad.

Ok, now that we have our political “compasses” and maps properly laid out, the answer to your question is that yes, it is entirely possible to be liberal, in any definition, and be Catholic, provided one did not also subscribe to the leftist/statist policies that contradicted Church teaching, such as abortion, gay marriage, and the generally degenerate cultural proclivities that these groups so often define themselves by. One could easily subscribe to the notion that more government intervention in our lives and the notion of social justice were necessarily intertwined and a “good” thing, while making exceptions for certain areas of leftist thought that are outside Catholic teaching. Likewise, for conservative philosophies. There are pro-life Democrats, and pro-choice Republicans.

But one can never be a pro-choice Catholic, nor a pro-gay marriage Catholic. Ever.

In other words, to be a liberal Catholic requires an exceptional amount of mental gymnastics, that, while not impossible, are generally not the hallmarks of leftists that I’ve come across. Most seem to walk in lockstep with their political leaders, and why you see a monolithic Democratic Party today that has essentially purged itself of its moderate and conservative elements. The GOP is undergoing just such a transformation now, purging its moderate and liberal elements (I’m using the contemporary definition of these labels now), but because it is more right wing (i.e. allowing for and encouraging more individual thought and expression), its intellectual basis is likely to remain more lively, given the social, economic, and libertarian aspects of the various groups within the Party.

Long answer to a short question. But yes, you can be a liberal Catholic. 🙂
 
:eek:

“Pro-life” and “Obama” cannot be in the same sentence. Surely you must be joking!
most people think of being pro-life as being anti abortion, but to be pro-life also means to be against war, the death penalty, and anything that is against human life and dignaty.
 
To “itinerant1” who posted on Oct. 28–
I concede every point you made in response to my post. My “moderate” stance on states’ rights vis a vis abortion entirely misses the point of personhood of the unborn child. The politicization of science (which Liberals accuse Conservatives of doing) remains the basis for the constitutional right to an abortion for reasons you cited about due process.
 
slapfight:I always heard that politician who chose to be identified as Democrat or Liberal automatically went down as being Pro-Choice.
If this is true, then no, it’s not possible to be Catholic and liberal- for me, anyway.
Some people argue that Republicans start wars that cause human suffering and grave sins also. They seem to think this is worse. Yet, more babies die from abortions than all the wars we’ve ever had. And, we all know Democrats have started plenty of Wars too.
Politics sucks if you ask me!
 
Well, if not then Jesus could not be a Catholic if he lived in our time. Jesus was a liberal, by definition.

Bucky
Yeah, right:

liberal= pro-abortion
liberal= pro-gay marriage

And don’t give me this “liberals care more about the poor.” It’s a proven fact that conservatives donate more money to charity then liberals do.

Not only that, if being conservative means being for the status quo, he would have been the ultimate conservative. God doesn’t change. We do, and usually not for the better.
 
Sure you can be both Catholic and liberal…I work with a bunch of them. They all voted for Obama, all believe in abortion on demand, women priests, go to Mass if you feel like it, use artificial contraception, everyone gets their own opinion (unless you disagree with them, then you’re dirt:rolleyes:), receive the Holy Eucharist, etc, etc. Yep, they proudly let the protestants and non-Christians know that they are Catholic (I’m the weirdo.) 🤷

Yes, they are also Catholic. And I pray daily that they respond to the grace that God in His mercy bestows, and return to their faith so that they may be members of the Catholic Church in good standing according to the Church’s standards

The question becomes "Can you be both a Catholic [in good standing] and liberal ? The Church, in her guidance, has told us that if we even participate in an abortion (even voting for a pro-choice candidate, when there is a pro life alternative) we must seek reconciliation.

Just a few thoughts.

Anne
so much to pray for, so little time.
 
In my humble opinion the answer is No.

Liberal, as the term is now defined, (in the 1700 and 1800 it was very different), it encompasses too many anti-Catholic beliefs. It means pro-abortion, anti-free will, a culture of death, no respect for the dignity of the individual or life. The true modern liberal choice is defined political beliefs and throws ethics and morality to the side as the ends justifies the means. A true classic Liberal would be a very Catholic view. God gave us free will and wants us to love him freely and openly without any promise or perceived, (I. e. unconditional love) benefit other than He deserves our love. The modern Liberal views places man’s wants above all.

Malleable morals, uncertain ethics and a lack of true humility define the modern liberal. Therefore, I believe if you follow the liberal agenda you cannot be Catholic. This has nothing to do with social justice or justice in general. God intend, planned and made life unfair. We, s Catholics accept his judgment and will. We do not try to change it. We are her to honor, love and serve God. We are not her to question of judge his plan. We know the importance of being judge by God’s standards not man’s imperfect standards.

As St Faustina revealed to us”…. that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.”
 
Seriously, I have always wondered how one can be conservative AND be a Christian of any denomination.

I have spent the vast majority of my life in both personal activites like target shooting (member of the NRA since 1973), and my professional career (25 years in defense), and have found the vast majority of the conservatives that I know personally to be racist, cold-hearted, mean-spirited, and pro-war (so long as a Republican says its right), among other things.

Probably a good 95+% of the people that I know are Republican (which doesn’t mean moral conservative in my book). Those that are doing great financially seem to use the lessor of thier brothers as a punching bag. Those who aren’t doing so great are enraged by blacks and “illegal aliens”. The messages that I never hear about from conservatives are things like love, compassion, or grace. In fact, I have too many times I have found myself saying, “let’s just hope that you aren’t judged by the standard of compassion that you have for the lessor of your brothers”.

I believe myself to be conservatively morally, but liberal politically. I am both anti-abortion and pro-life absolutely. In truth, the abortion issue is nothing more than a wedge issue (and a very effective one at that, I must admit). The same “conservative” politicians who ride upon the anti-abortion bandwagon are often the most blood-thirsty war mongers, who cheat on thier wives, operate purely for the benefit of some clearly evil corporations and organizations, and who would do anything to circumvent the constitution because they believe in thier “party” and not this great nation.

In my many years of experience, I have watched the Republican party reduce itself to cult which is the embodiment of Satan, as it is rooted in bigotry, hatred, deceit, greed, and fear. There is no love in the Republican party that I can see, and I’m speaking from experience.

I detest abortion, but seeing what our previous administration did in Iraq was even worse in my book. Why? Because in addition to going to war when there was clearly no justification (it was all based on lies), it resulted in the senseless deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents. For the vast majority of Americans the level of understanding of the consequences of war is purely at a high level of abstraction. We don’t stop to think about the horrible suffering that countless women, children, and grandparents have had to endure (on both sides). Satan could not have been more pleased as now there will be future generations of people from the middle east who will know first and understand why they hate the west. Think of the outrage that Americans felt when watching the events of 9/11 on thier televisions.

I believe that we have had many opportunites to change our relationships with some of our enemies, but the previous administration has done more harm than good. Overall, both parties must share some of the blame, because foreign politicy on both sides has supported evil dictators, kings, etc. However, the difference is that Republicans always seem to run on a platform in which they promise more war (which means more bloodshed, deaths, physical and emotional suffering, etc.).

My point regarding conservative versus liberal being Catholic is that it is the spirit of modern day Republicanism that I absolutely despise. It’s only real mechanisms for success are its ability to push those buttons that evoke anger, fear, confusion, and hatred. The day I see the Republican party demonstrate the spirit of Christ, I’ll take notice. But for now, it’s devoid of it.

Oh, yes. Abortion is one of those buttons that they’ve learned to push at every turn. If you’re going to base your vote on apparent morals, then you’re looking in the wrong direction when looking at the Republican party. I’m not saying that they are worse than Democrats, just more hypocritical, and they are shameless in thier claims to owning the moral high ground. I have yet to see it.
 
Hi Tedster, I do not think my family agrees with all of the “liberal agenda”, but I guess I can say they lean left having to do with the war. Liberals are anti-war, are they not?
Thank you.
Liberals aren’t anti “war”, they are only against wars that don’t cost anything. Hence they supported the Afghanistan war when they thought it was easy. Irony is, no war is without cost.

But to be fair, I can’t think of a conflict the United States has been involved in in MY lifetime that Democrats have supported their country in.
 
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