Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

[Texas_Roofer]

Wow! It almost sounds like you are saying that the President is NOT an elected rep.

So since day one, every Supreme court nominee was appointed and confirmed by our elected representatives.

and thus not elected, no election, no vote, so cathlic voting does not change the authority of the supreme court

By making abortions easier both physically and financially he will increase the number of abortions. That is his agenda, like it or not.

Today it is legal in 50 states and the district of Columbia so where will it change? Today it is one of the cheapest medical procedures ( I was charged more for X-rays, also charged more for blood tests, a minor knee surgery was some $14,000) so how is that going to change?

Do a little research yourself

been done

on how he wants to make abortion more accessible and convince me

your mind is your mind if it is closed converse with your self about all issues

that it will not increase the number of murders of innocent lives. And it IS actually being done. Read through the Obamacare plan and it is plain to see, if you really want to see it.

its not there

I’ll even help you:

And this is one bill that he is pushing. Look a little deeper and find more.

I would be happy to read your references in context, but you did not give any reference. It is hard to imagine large red contradictory print in a document, yet with no document we simply do not know.

 

[diggerdomer]

Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance…

~Therese

Yes you can be liberal (whatever that means) and be a good Catholic. The point is, be Catholic. If you do that, imho whether you regard yourself as liberal or conservative (or whatever) is secondary.

 

[diggerdomer]

“Pro-life” and “Obama” cannot be in the same sentence. Surely you must be joking!

No, one can be pro-life and still vote for a candidate who does not meet the Catholic pro-life criteria. No presidential candidate that I know of met the Catholic definition of pro-life, yet as Catholics we are still allowed (and many would say encouraged) to vote.

 

[AHapka]

I think the important thing to consider here is how unwelcoming the Democratic party would be to Christ…yet another reason they are misguided.

Hmm, let’s look at a few of the things liberal democrats believe in:

Abortion,
Embryonic stem cell research,
Gay marriage,
Condoms and other forms of ABC freely distributed.

If Christ were to walk into the democratic national convention the first thing he would be called is “the leader of the pedophile priests who is against abortion rights thereby supressing women, bigoted against gays, uncaring about the lives of humans because he doesn’t support stem cell research, interfering with what consenting adults do in the bedroom, and discriminates against other religions because He says He is the only way.”

He certainly would not be welcome in the democratic party, that’s for sure.

 

[diggerdomer]

I think the important thing to consider here is how unwelcoming the Democratic party would be to Christ…yet another reason they are misguided.

Hmm, let’s look at a few of the things liberal democrats believe in:

Abortion,
Embryonic stem cell research,
Gay marriage,
Condoms and other forms of ABC freely distributed.

If Christ were to walk into the democratic national convention the first thing he would be called is “the leader of the pedophile priests who is against abortion rights thereby supressing women, bigoted against gays, uncaring about the lives of humans because he doesn’t support stem cell research, interfering with what consenting adults do in the bedroom, and discriminates against other religions because He says He is the only way.”

He certainly would not be welcome in the democratic party, that’s for sure.

Nonsense.

I’m a Democrat and a Catholic, and I don’t believe in any of the things you say.

Following your logic, one could say that how unwelcoming the Republican party would be to Christ:

death penalty is ok (if not good)
pre-emptive unjust wars are ok
health care for everyone is optional

Or any number of other stereotypes that people associate with either Democrats or Republicans. The fact that I’m a Democrat, now, is not that important to me. Catholics can be Democrats or Republican (or Independents, or any other political affiliation). That’s fine with me.

I hope and believe that Christ would be welcome at any political gathering, because Christ teaches the truth, which I believe all of us are interested in.

 

[Tedster]

and thus not elected, no election, no vote, so cathlic voting does not change the authority of the supreme court

No, the Supreme court justices are not elected… that’s not what I said. I used the term appointed. But I also said they are appointed by the President and confirmed by our elected reps., who are all elected by us.

Liberal “catholics” have voted for liberal Presidents who, in turn, have appointed liberal Supreme court justices, who have legalized abortion. That is my thinking. Am I wrong?

So, by my thinking, liberal “catholics” have betrayed the Church in this manner.

its not there

Yes, it is. See below.

I would be happy to read your references in context, but you did not give any reference. It is hard to imagine large red contradictory print in a document, yet with no document we simply do not know.

It is H.R. 3200, the Obama Healthcare bill. Read for yourself. BTW, the red print was the conclusions made by Mat Staver, Dean of Liberty University School of Law, I just forgot to link the document. Sorry.

 

[Irish_Polock]

Nonsense.

I’m a Democrat and a Catholic, and I don’t believe in any of the things you say.

Following your logic, one could say that how unwelcoming the Republican party would be to Christ:

death penalty is ok (if not good)
pre-emptive unjust wars are ok
health care for everyone is optional

Or any number of other stereotypes that people associate with either Democrats or Republicans. The fact that I’m a Democrat, now, is not that important to me. Catholics can be Democrats or Republican (or Independents, or any other political affiliation). That’s fine with me.

I hope and believe that Christ would be welcome at any political gathering, because Christ teaches the truth, which I believe all of us are interested in.

So… you’re a Pro-Life, Anti-Gay Marriage, Anti-Embryonic Stem cell research Liberal Democratic Catholic who doesn’t support Freely giving out Adult Birth Control for any reason?

Call me crazy, but your argument seems pretty weak. You can NOT be PRO-DEATH or turn a blind eye to the pro-death agenda, and be in good standing with the Church. The souls lost to abortion are innocent and have never had any choice.
Like others before have said I am neither Democratic nor Republican… I am Catholic.

 

[diggerdomer]

N

Liberal “catholics” have voted for liberal Presidents who, in turn, have appointed liberal Supreme court justices, who have legalized abortion. That is my thinking. Am I wrong?

I don’t know if you’re wrong, but the Supreme Course justice (Harry Blackmun) who authored the Roe v. Wade decision was appointed to the Court by Richard Nixon (Republican) and was earlier appointed to the Circuit Court by Dwight Eisenhower (Republican). Does that fit your understanding of “liberals” who legalized abortion?

The opinion in Roe v. Wade was written by Blackmun.

Whether you’re wrong or not I guess is up to you.

 

[diggerdomer]

So… you’re a Pro-Life, Anti-Gay Marriage, Anti-Embryonic Stem cell research Liberal Democratic Catholic who doesn’t support Freely giving out Adult Birth Control for any reason?

Call me crazy, but your argument seems pretty weak. You can NOT be PRO-DEATH or turn a blind eye to the pro-death agenda, and be in good standing with the Church. The souls lost to abortion are innocent and have never had any choice.
Like others before have said I am neither Democratic nor Republican… I am Catholic.

I’m Catholic too. Thanks be to God.

 

[Irish_Polock]

I’m Catholic too. Thanks be to God.

Indeed, Thanks be to GOD.

What of my question? Are you a Pro-Life, Anti-Gay Marriage, Anti-Embryonic Stem cell research Liberal Democratic Catholic who doesn’t support Freely giving out Adult Birth Control for any reason?

 

[diggerdomer]

Indeed, Thanks be to GOD.

What of my question? Are you a Pro-Life, Anti-Gay Marriage, Anti-Embryonic Stem cell research Liberal Democratic Catholic who doesn’t support Freely giving out Adult Birth Control for any reason?

yes.

are you?

 

[Irish_Polock]

yes.

are you?

No, I tend to be more of an Moderate Centrist, and yes I follow the teachings of our Church.

IMO being a Liberal Democratic Catholic is quite an oxymoron.

 

[IHeartAquinas]

Liberal does not always equal Democrat.
Conservative does not always equal Republican.

I know card-carrying members of the Republican Party that consistently voice support for issues usually touted by Democrats. Why are they Republicans? Because mom and dad were. Before I was allowed to vote, I tended towards the political views of my parents which included an almost Soviet-style devotion to the Republican Party. Now? I am completely unaffiliated, and compared to my parents, a raging liberal.

Do I believe in abortion? No. Do I believe in birth control? Yes. Condoms and pessaries? No. (Be specific when you discuss topics! Birth control can also be the willful withholding of sexual congress because you cannot afford to raise another child.) Do I believe in the death penalty? No. Do I believe in “Just War”? Only for self-defense.

I am a Catholic who opposes the death penalty. My parents would be ashamed.
I am a Catholic who opposes abortion. My parents would be elated.

The point is that on the one hand, I hold rather liberal views. On the other, I hold rather conservative views. If anything, the American definition of liberal and conservative are mislabeled entirely on the two parties we have.

Traditionally, “liberal” meant maintaining and preserving the liberties of the people (hence the origin of the name.) And “conservative” meant being conserving the amount of liberty offered a people to prevent excesses. Look at the French Revolution for why such a stance against absolute liberty would be embraced.

So…I guess what I’m saying is stop accusing a liberal Democrat Catholic of being an oxymoron. It’s just as oxymoronic as a Republican Catholic. Catholicism is not a political party. It is the way, the truth, and the life as expressed by Jesus Christ, the manifested son of God. If I wanted to I could be a Communist Catholic by rejecting its atheism and embracing its Social Justice (something supported by Catholicism), its egalitarian worldview (also supported by Catholicism) and its emphasis on Social Welfare (also supported by Catholicism). You can reject parts of politics, you can’t reject faith.

 

[Irish_Polock]

Liberal does not always equal Democrat.
Conservative does not always equal Republican.

I know card-carrying members of the Republican Party that consistently voice support for issues usually touted by Democrats. Why are they Republicans? Because mom and dad were. Before I was allowed to vote, I tended towards the political views of my parents which included an almost Soviet-style devotion to the Republican Party. Now? I am completely unaffiliated, and compared to my parents, a raging liberal.

Do I believe in abortion? No. Do I believe in birth control? Yes. Condoms and pessaries? No. (Be specific when you discuss topics! Birth control can also be the willful withholding of sexual congress because you cannot afford to raise another child.) Do I believe in the death penalty? No. Do I believe in “Just War”? Only for self-defense.

I am a Catholic who opposes the death penalty. My parents would be ashamed.
I am a Catholic who opposes abortion. My parents would be elated.

The point is that on the one hand, I hold rather liberal views. On the other, I hold rather conservative views. If anything, the American definition of liberal and conservative are mislabeled entirely on the two parties we have.

Traditionally, “liberal” meant maintaining and preserving the liberties of the people (hence the origin of the name.) And “conservative” meant being conserving the amount of liberty offered a people to prevent excesses. Look at the French Revolution for why such a stance against absolute liberty would be embraced.

So…I guess what I’m saying is stop accusing a liberal Democrat Catholic of being an oxymoron. It’s just as oxymoronic as a Republican Catholic. Catholicism is not a political party. It is the way, the truth, and the life as expressed by Jesus Christ, the manifested son of God. If I wanted to I could be a Communist Catholic by rejecting its atheism and embracing its Social Justice (something supported by Catholicism), its egalitarian worldview (also supported by Catholicism) and its emphasis on Social Welfare (also supported by Catholicism). You can reject parts of politics, you can’t reject faith.

Right, there are many shades of gray, although I spoke of a Liberal Democratic Catholic specifically.

And traditionally, “Libertarian” meant maintaining and preserving the liberties of the people also…along with challenging the cult of the omnipotent state, hence the name “Libertarian”.

Modern Liberalism is nothing like Classical Liberalism (Laissez-Faire Liberalism) of the Jacksonian era. In fact, most Classical Liberals would be terrified of the direction this country is heading. The fact is, the modern liberal democrat is going to be out of step with the Catholic Church, especially on the issue of the sanctity of all human life, from the moment of conception to natural death.

Being a “Modern” Liberal Democratic Catholic is very much an oxymoron.

 

[Tedster]

I don’t know if you’re wrong, but the Supreme Course justice (Harry Blackmun) who authored the Roe v. Wade decision was appointed to the Court by Richard Nixon (Republican) and was earlier appointed to the Circuit Court by Dwight Eisenhower (Republican). Does that fit your understanding of “liberals” who legalized abortion?

Yes. Quite nicely. If you are inferring that I think party lines define liberal or conservative (I make the assumption since your noted both Nixon and Eisenhower were Republican), then you are mistaken.

There have been plenty of politicians on both side of the aisle that can be labeled “liberal”. Our job as Catholic, IMHO, is to vote into office those who reflect our beliefs most closely, yet none will be a perfect fit. I would vote for a Democratic nominee to any position if he/she were truly pro-life, anti gay-marriage, etc. As many others have said in this thread, I am Catholic before I am Republican.

That said, the Republican party, again IMHO, is the closest fit to Catholicism right now. Sure there are points that I may not agree with with the Republican party, but overall, I can say the main issues (Abortion, Euthanasia, Gay-Marriage, etc…) are better represented by the Republicans.

 

[AHapka]

Nonsense.

I’m a Democrat and a Catholic, and I don’t believe in any of the things you say.

Umm…how you you be a democrat without being in favor of abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and ABC.

Either you are not a democrat or lying when you say that you are. Those items are definitions of democrats and the democratic party. If you don’t believe them, then you really have no business calling yourself a democrat. And it’s as simple as that.

And those things are all contrary to Catholic moral teaching.

The death penalty is not a violation of Catholic moral teaching. War is not a violation of Catholic moral teaching by the just war doctrine.

We are all in favor of health care for everyone. We debate how to do it. The government providing universal health care would be violation of my right to privacy since they would have all of my health information. Also, everyone wouldn’t have it…benefits would be denied based on bureaucratic decisions.

 

[diggerdomer]

No, I tend to be more of an Moderate Centrist, and yes I follow the teachings of our Church.

IMO being a Liberal Democratic Catholic is quite an oxymoron.

THanks. Ok, that’s your opinion, fine. No problem as long as no one thinks it’s objectively true.

 

[diggerdomer]

Umm…how you you be a democrat without being in favor of abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and ABC.

The same way one can be a Republican without being in favor of the death penalty, unjust wars, and so on.

Thankfully, the Bishops in the U.S. clearly teach that Catholics are not bound to one political party.

 

[AHapka]

The same way one can be a Republican without being in favor of the death penalty, unjust wars, and so on.

Thankfully, the Bishops in the U.S. clearly teach that Catholics are not bound to one political party.

Then call me either stupid or a moron, but I just don’t understand???

 

[diggerdomer]

Then call me either stupid or a moron, but I just don’t understand???

I am not and have not called you or suggested you are either stupid or a moron.

I’m not sure what you don’t understand? The fact that the U.S. Bishops do not require Catholics do belong to a certain political party? That they don’t bar anyone from belonging to a certain political party? Thanks for any clarification.