Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

[MacMarauder]

One thing to consider, things like the Republican Party, Democratic Part, the US Government, the Constitution, etc. are all man made institutions. Of course none of them will be perfect. Some people combine their religious and political ideologies so they become one platform, but the truth is the Catholic Church is neither a Republican church or a Democratic church. The Church does have teachings on certain issues, like abortion and just war, but the bulk of the issues the political parties actually deal with are outside the scope of Catholic teaching, like economic policy and state’s rights.

Our faith is with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, things that will never pass, not temporary institutions like the current political parties in America. I think we should always remember that America itself is just a country like any other, it’s ok to be patriotic but God always comes first, country is far behind in terms of importance.

 

[Garland]

The only thing to consider is , is your catholicity exposed in how you vote, live, eat, walk, testify and all other aspects of your life. If you are accused of being christian, will there be enough evidence to convict you? Preach the gospel daily, use words if you have to. Liberalism is a sin… Blessings. Garland

 

[Nyarlathotep]

The only thing to consider is , is your catholicity exposed in how you vote, live, eat, walk, testify and all other aspects of your life. If you are accused of being christian, will there be enough evidence to convict you? Preach the gospel daily, use words if you have to. Liberalism is a sin… Blessings. Garland

You’re confusing terminology. “Liberalism” with respect to liturgy, theology, and morality may be sinful. But without political liberalism, we’d still have the Queen on our currency. Apples and orangoutans.

 

[Garland]

If you have read all my post you know that the church has condemed liberalism in all its forms. I made reference to two books on the subject that shows even in its political form it is not acceptable for a catholic christian to partake of its errors. One was “LIBERALISM IS A SIN”, by a priest from spain in the 1800s. Another is CAN A CATHOLIC BE A DEMOCRAT. How the party I Love became The enemy of my church. Both are available and enexpensive at amazon. I think you must be one who tries to justify his politics as something outside his religion. Unfortunatly 54% of catholics had that attitude in the last election, and 1.4 million babies a year are being killed, and with a different outcome of that election, we could have now had another conserative on the supreme court instead of another LIBERAL, who will try to legislate fom the bench. Another justice that will most likely set the prolife movement back 40 yrs. People like pelosi, biden kerry, the clintons, and all others who think only of themselves are a stain on human history as much as hitler and the nazis. They seek the destruction of a whole class of people, infants, and to some like ruth vader ginsberg said" I supported RvW because it would rid us of undesirables in our society. Who are these people to say who is desireable? Hilary clinton praised margaret sanger as " a women of vision ahead of her time. She was founder of planned parenthood, and a diciple of hitler, who said "if all the catholics, jews and blacks were anililated this world would be better off." Call yourself liberal, proggresive, secular humanist, or any other name you want. You cannot have this ideaology and be christian at the same time. It has been condemed by two popes and "that should be enough for faithful catholics" How do you stop a political party from doing things you dont approve of? Simple, don`t vote them into office until they stop doing those things. No matter what good things might come from the dems., it is covered by the blood of the most innocent and helpless of our society, our children. There is not excuse for that period. Blessings Garland

 

[Nyarlathotep]

If you have read all my post you know that the church has condemed liberalism in all its forms.

No, it hasn’t. The Church has always supported organized labor, the environment, the poor, the immigrants, the sick, the end of unjust wars; the Bishops are in favor of the House Healthcare bill, etc. ad infinitum – your 2 books don’t convince me otherwise in the face of vast evidence to the contrary, including the Catechism and Papal Encyclicals. Anyway, how did conservatism in Spain in the 1800’s work out? It produced Franco, is what it did – a brutal fascist regime hiding behind the cloak of “religion.”

I think you must be one who tries to justify his politics as something outside his religion.

Clearly not, my politics are intimately intertwined with my religion. One of my personal heroes is Msgr. Rice, the “labor priest” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rice). There’s a Catholic for you. When I meet him in heaven, I’ll tell him that you think he’s a heretic and we’ll all have a good laugh about it.

People like pelosi, biden kerry, the clintons, and all others who think only of themselves are a stain on human history as much as hitler and the nazis.

You lose – Godwin’s law. Sorry, I don’t make the rules.

Call yourself liberal, progressive, secular humanist, or any other name you want. You cannot have this ideology and be Christian at the same time. It has been condemed by two popes and “that should be enough for faithful catholics”.

Okay, I’ll take “liberal” and “progressive”. But I think you’re putting too many fish in the kettle; you don’t have to be a postmodern atheistic secular humanist to be “liberal”. Msgr. Charles Owen Rice was a liberal, but he wasn’t a secular humanist.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Let’s remember charity in these discussions.
Thank you.

 

[LJinPA]

Hey I just thought of something. One thing the Catholic Church and the Orthodox, even the most traditionalist wings of them is alcohol (as long as it’s not abused we even drink it at mass). Alcohol is not intrinsically evil in other words. Also gambling… at least buying an occasional lottery ticket is not condemned by at least mainstream Catholicism…esp Bingo! Were also allowed to dance- as long as it’s innocent dance.
In the eyes of some evangelicals, esp. those of a Calvinist background, not to mention many Muslims, those issues alone may get us labeled as “liberals” or “hedonists”.
Even some traditional Catholic art has some mild nudity.

Even Mardi Gras, if it went back to it’s more…wholesome roots, Could you picture the Puritans of New England in 1700 starting something like that?

Even if there was no Vatican 2 and we were still under one of the Pope Pious’s, traditional Catholic “conservatism” is still a little different than that of some other Christians.

 

[itinerant1]

You’re confusing terminology. “Liberalism” with respect to liturgy, theology, and morality may be sinful. But without political liberalism, we’d still have the Queen on our currency. Apples and orangoutans.

You are correct to point out the different uses of “liberalism”. Liberalism is regard to Church teaching is sinful. Furthermore, official Church teaching is not liberal or conservative. It is orthodox = right belief. Anything theologically contrary is unorthodox.

The political liberalism represented by a move away from monarchy, i.e. Classical Liberalism, is dramatically different from the contemporary political liberalism exemplified by, but not limited to, America’s Democratic Party.

 

[itinerant1]

The following quote from Cardinal Newman is a good description of liberalism in religion:

“Liberalism in religion is the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but that one creed is as good as another, and this is the teaching which is gaining substance and force daily. It is inconsistent with any recognition of any religion, as true. It teaches that all are to be tolerated, for all matters of opinion.”

– from the Biglietto Speech, on being raised to the Cardinalate.(19th century)

 

[itinerant1]

Since there are frequent questions about the meaning of the term “Liberalism”, the Catholic Encyclopedia has an article that may clarify uses of the word: see Liberalism

Also, the Catholic philosopher, Jacques Maritain, has an insight about liberalism that merits thoughtful consideration:

“The mistake of bourgeois liberalism has been to conceive democratic society to be a kind of lists or arena in which all the conceptions of the bases of common life, even the most destructive to freedom and law, merely meet with no more than the pure and simple indifference of the body politic, while they compete before public opinion in a kind of free market of the mother-ideas, healthy or poisoned, of political life.” – Man and the State

 

[itinerant1]

If you have read all my post you know that the church has condemed liberalism in all its forms. I made reference to two books on the subject that shows even in its political form it is not acceptable for a catholic christian to partake of its errors. One was “LIBERALISM IS A SIN”, by a priest from spain in the 1800s. Another is CAN A CATHOLIC BE A DEMOCRAT. How the party I Love became The enemy of my church. Both are available and enexpensive at amazon. I think you must be one who tries to justify his politics as something outside his religion. Unfortunatly 54% of catholics had that attitude in the last election, and 1.4 million babies a year are being killed, and with a different outcome of that election, we could have now had another conserative on the supreme court instead of another LIBERAL, who will try to legislate fom the bench. Another justice that will most likely set the prolife movement back 40 yrs. People like pelosi, biden kerry, the clintons, and all others who think only of themselves are a stain on human history as much as hitler and the nazis. They seek the destruction of a whole class of people, infants, and to some like ruth vader ginsberg said" I supported RvW because it would rid us of undesirables in our society. Who are these people to say who is desireable? Hilary clinton praised margaret sanger as " a women of vision ahead of her time. She was founder of planned parenthood, and a diciple of hitler, who said "if all the catholics, jews and blacks were anililated this world would be better off." Call yourself liberal, proggresive, secular humanist, or any other name you want. You cannot have this ideaology and be christian at the same time. It has been condemed by two popes and "that should be enough for faithful catholics" How do you stop a political party from doing things you dont approve of? Simple, don`t vote them into office until they stop doing those things. No matter what good things might come from the dems., it is covered by the blood of the most innocent and helpless of our society, our children. There is not excuse for that period. Blessings Garland

I agree that the Democratic Party has become the enemy of the Church. Unfortunately, too many U.S. bishops rationalize their support of the Democratic Party.

The Republican Party has become quite corrupt, also. Someone once characterized a Republican as a slow Democrat. It seems like many Republicans politicians have been trying hard to catch up to the corruption level of their Democratic counterparts…whatever brings in the votes.

G.K. Chesterton once said, “It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.”

Vote Constitution Party with a clear conscience.

 

[Lujack]

It is important to remember that when we talk about the sin of liberalism (and the Church has denounced such a thing) that when we do so, we define liberalism as the Church has defined it. The Church has not denounced all things that have ever had the word liberal applied to them, it has denounced a very specific set of beliefs and practices (which involved a lot of anti-clericalism) that it has referred to as liberalism. To say that someone who identifies as a liberal is therefore guilty of the sin of liberalism is no different than saying that someone who identifies as an American patriot is therefore guilty of the sin of Americanism (which is also a term for a sin that refers to a very specific set of beliefs and practices).

It is foolish and ineffective to pluck words with specific definitions out of their proper context in papal and magisterial statements, and declare them to be equivalent to words in another context, in another time, when the meaning has changed.

Whether or not one can be Catholic and liberal depends on what one means when one uses the word liberal.

 

[Midwesterner]

Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance…

~Therese

By the rules of the Church one would HAVE to lean to the liberal side. Abortion notwithstanding, I don’t see much else on the conservative side that agrees with the Church’s beliefs.

 

[Midwesterner]

“Pro-life” and “Obama” cannot be in the same sentence. Surely you must be joking!

Can’t say “pro-life” and “Bob Barr” in the same sentence. Congressman Barr posed as a warrior for the unborn before being outed as a hypocrite. For those pro-lifers on here, take a closer look at your movement. I am pro-life, but am not naive enough to believe that our legislators care a bit about abortion.

**Abortion Hypocrisy **

As an outspoken anti-abortion Congressman, Barr called abortion murder. Yet he paid for an abortion for his first wife, Gail, which was documented by Larry Flynt, the infamous publisher of Hustler Magazine. – Sources – Top

Infidelity

There is no absolute proof or admission, but Barr during his 1985 divorce proceeding, Barr used a legal maneuver to refuse to answer questions on whether he’d cheated on his second wife with the woman who is now his third. – Sources – Top

 

[Garland]

Hello, I am a dummy when it comes to operating this computer so forgive the misspelled words or proper grammer or any of a thousand things I do to embarace myself when writing these post. That being said, there are thousands of littleones dying because christians refuse to vote for life. It seems that the only out for unions etc. is the dem. party and they will only help workers unions etc. if they accept the blood bath of abortion along with the help. This will be my last intrusion on your time here but will be praying that God opens the eyes of the dems, liberals, progresives, or whatever you choose to call yourselves to the horrible things done in the name of progress. Blessings. Garland

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Hello, I am a dummy when it comes to operating this computer so forgive the misspelled words or proper grammer or any of a thousand things I do to embarace myself when writing these post. That being said, there are thousands of littleones dying because christians refuse to vote for life. It seems that the only out for unions etc. is the dem. party and they will only help workers unions etc. if they accept the blood bath of abortion along with the help. This will be my last intrusion on your time here but will be praying that God opens the eyes of the dems, liberals, progresives, or whatever you choose to call yourselves to the horrible things done in the name of progress. Blessings. Garland

Thank you, Garland. :bighanky:
Thank you, and may our Lord Bless you.

 

[elts1956]

It is important to remember that when we talk about the sin of liberalism (and the Church has denounced such a thing) that when we do so, we define liberalism as the Church has defined it. The Church has not denounced all things that have ever had the word liberal applied to them, it has denounced a very specific set of beliefs and practices (which involved a lot of anti-clericalism) that it has referred to as liberalism. To say that someone who identifies as a liberal is therefore guilty of the sin of liberalism is no different than saying that someone who identifies as an American patriot is therefore guilty of the sin of Americanism (which is also a term for a sin that refers to a very specific set of beliefs and practices).

It is foolish and ineffective to pluck words with specific definitions out of their proper context in papal and magisterial statements, and declare them to be equivalent to words in another context, in another time, when the meaning has changed.

Whether or not one can be Catholic and liberal depends on what one means when one uses the word liberal.

 

[itinerant1]

Hello, I am a dummy when it comes to operating this computer so forgive the misspelled words or proper grammer or any of a thousand things I do to embarace myself when writing these post. That being said, there are thousands of littleones dying because christians refuse to vote for life. It seems that the only out for unions etc. is the dem. party and they will only help workers unions etc. if they accept the blood bath of abortion along with the help. This will be my last intrusion on your time here but will be praying that God opens the eyes of the dems, liberals, progresives, or whatever you choose to call yourselves to the horrible things done in the name of progress. Blessings. Garland

Keep posting, though, and with more practice your skills will improve. Hang in there.

 

[love2learn]

**Abortion Hypocrisy **
As an outspoken anti-abortion Congressman, Barr called abortion murder. Yet he paid for an abortion for his first wife, Gail, which was documented by Larry Flynt, the infamous publisher of Hustler Magazine. – Sources – Top

Though a Republican congressman for many years, Bob Barr has said he believes the Republican Party has changed and no longer protects individual liberty. He joined the Libertarian Party and became the Libertarian presidential candidate in 2008.

Bob Barr acted as a Libertarian when he left the choice to abort (or not abort) up to his wife. This is what the Libertarian platform believes: " Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration."

I don’t understand why Barr supports restricting abortion when his party’s platform says it should be decided privately on a case by case basis. Maybe he has dissociative identity disorder. He supports “pro life” policies, which is good, and I hope (perhaps naively) that he will never pay for one again.

If the choice came down to voting for someone who has never had an abortion but wants to make sure abortion is never restricted (e.g. Nancy Pelosi) or someone who has procured an abortion but nonetheless wants it to be severely restricted (e.g. Bob Barr), I would have to go with the latter. Fortunately for conservatives like me, this dilemma is rare.

 

[human_being]

Hello, I am a dummy when it comes to operating this computer so forgive the misspelled words or proper grammer or any of a thousand things I do to embarace myself when writing these post. That being said, there are thousands of littleones dying because christians refuse to vote for life. It seems that the only out for unions etc. is the dem. party and they will only help workers unions etc. if they accept the blood bath of abortion along with the help. This will be my last intrusion on your time here but will be praying that God opens the eyes of the dems, liberals, progresives, or whatever you choose to call yourselves to the horrible things done in the name of progress. Blessings. Garland

The unions help prevent abortions IMO…they give the classes which have the most abortions more ways to better themselves…the unions fight for better wages and benefits that standing alone(as the conservatives would have them do) will not get them…they fight for laws which will give them more stability and could help give them hope to have their babies and get married…istead of the totally unstable option of standing alone and getting thrown scraps…and they fight for trade laws which does not help the side which wants jobs sent overseas into totally unregulated abusive countries. The unions also fight deregulations. From caritas in veritate # 25:

“The mobility of labour, associated with a climate of deregulation, is an important phenomenon with certain positive aspects, because it can stimulate wealth production and cultural exchange. Nevertheless, uncertainty over working conditions caused by mobility and deregulation, when it becomes endemic, tends to create new forms of psychological instability, giving rise to difficulty in forging coherent life-plans, including that of marriage.”

"