Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

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AHapka said:
We are all in favor of health care for everyone. We debate how to do it. The government providing universal health care would be violation of my right to privacy since they would have all of my health information. Also, everyone wouldn’t have it…benefits would be denied based on bureaucratic decisions.
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I have had VA health care since 2006. VA Health Care is socialized medicine and I would use no other provider because their care and services are superior., I like that the government has my health care records including X-rays and MRI’s accesssble wherever I go so that I can best be treated especially if I am unconscience. The government is bound by HIPPA Laws and they are very good at maintaing my privacy. I have been in 5 VA hospitals and clinics, Phoenix, AZ. Mt Vernon, Missouri, Fayetville, AR, Washington DC, and Hampton, Virginia. Everyone of them provided me with superior care and never denied me services. I believe it was the New England Journal of medicine that named the Veterans Administration Health Care the # 1 provider for superior service and treatment. Veteran patients rate VA health care more then 10% higher then patients outside the VA rate their health care providers. Government health care is a good thing and I believe everyone should have the care I get.

Peace,
David
 
lil_flower_luv said:
Hi Tedster, I do not think my family agrees with all of the “liberal agenda”, but I guess I can say they lean left having to do with the war. Liberals are anti-war, are they not?
Thank you.
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It depends on what you mean by anti-war, you might want to do some reading on “just cause.” There are some situations when going to war is justified and others where it is not. A Google search can give you a quick overview.

If we could achieve the same results without going to war (with all the expense, loss of life, etc.) don’t you think it would be more prudent to explore other alternatives? That isn’t really a liberal or conservative viewpoint, rather a practical one.
 
lil_flower_luv said:
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese
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How does having a certain political view make you Catholic or not Catholic? What exactly does it mean to be Catholic? I don’t think toeing the Republican party line on every issue makes you Catholic.
 
Is it not true that the Democratic party platform espouses promotes and votes Abortion, embryonic stem-cell research, euthanasia, Homosexuality and the redefinition of marriage. Is it not true that liberal judges, “possibly and probably” Democrats are so in synch with ACLU in their decisions to remove God from our lives. How can a person who votes Democratic consider theirself a Roman Catholic? An American "cafeteria (so-called) Catholic – yes. These issues stated above are considered Dogma of our Church, not just something one can take or leave. These are my beliefs and I submit them to you with the love of Christ

Catholic Dogma
 
Politics and faith rarely (if at all) line up neatly.

IMO, catholicism aligns fairly well with SOME aspects of liberal politics in America:
  1. Death penalty needs to be abolished.
  2. Immigration needs drastic reform and there needs to be a much more open path for large numbers of poor immigrants BEFORE there is a border/wall crackdown.
  3. Government needs to play a role providing some level of starvation/exposure prevention for the poor.
  4. Government needs to regulate commerce and protect the populace from exploitive behaviors among the wealthy (financial, legal, environmental, etc).
On the other hand, catholicism is diametrically opposed to many aspects of American political liberalism:
  1. Abortion (and abortion imperialism abroad)
  2. Eugenics / Contraceptive imperialism. (We spend an amazing amount of money trying to prevent ‘brown’ people from being conceived overseas).
  3. Socialist agendas (politicians are just as corruptable as oligarchs).
  4. Euthanasia and the trend towards a utilitarian measure of human worth.
  5. Culture. Liberals tend to be of the mindset that the only thing that is bad is calling something bad. We’ve turned reality on its head in this country, mostly with liberals leading the charge.
I no longer call myself a conservative and I can’t stomach the Rush Limbaugh show anymore. But you better not call me a liberal. I’m catholic.
 
davidmlamb said:
I support the employee free will act mandating collective bargaining to ensure a just and fair wage.
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Ummm…how is it “free will” to be forced into a mandated system?

That’s contradictory on it’s face.
 
AHapka said:
Ummm…how is it “free will” to be forced into a mandated system?

That’s contradictory on it’s face.
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Its not contradictory at all! Employees are already forced into a mandated system where the employer sets their wages and benifits and can hire and fire at will. That’s a mandated system. The Employee free Will Act takes away the employer ability to stop employees from forming a union to collective bargain for their wages. Collectively bargaining for wages and benefits leads to better pay and benefits giving the employees more economic freedom.

Peace,

David
 
manualman said:
Politics and faith rarely (if at all) line up neatly.

IMO, catholicism aligns fairly well with SOME aspects of liberal politics in America:
  1. Death penalty needs to be abolished.
  2. Immigration needs drastic reform and there needs to be a much more open path for large numbers of poor immigrants BEFORE there is a border/wall crackdown.
  3. Government needs to play a role providing some level of starvation/exposure prevention for the poor.
  4. Government needs to regulate commerce and protect the populace from exploitive behaviors among the wealthy (financial, legal, environmental, etc).
On the other hand, catholicism is diametrically opposed to many aspects of American political liberalism:
  1. Abortion (and abortion imperialism abroad)
  2. Eugenics / Contraceptive imperialism. (We spend an amazing amount of money trying to prevent ‘brown’ people from being conceived overseas).
  3. Socialist agendas (politicians are just as corruptable as oligarchs).
  4. Euthanasia and the trend towards a utilitarian measure of human worth.
  5. Culture. Liberals tend to be of the mindset that the only thing that is bad is calling something bad. We’ve turned reality on its head in this country, mostly with liberals leading the charge.
I no longer call myself a conservative and I can’t stomach the Rush Limbaugh show anymore. But you better not call me a liberal. I’m catholic.
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👍 Good post. Attempts to encapsulate Catholicism in modern political ideology are always in vain. It’s problematic for people like me, who are political “muts” if you will (though, imo, I my views are not inconsistent at all; it’s liberals and conservaves, i.e., everyone else in the world, that’s inconsistent). I hold what would probably be called somewhat liberal views on economics and foreign policy, but am neither pro-choice nor socially liberal, and am of course no fan of secularism so I could certainly not pass for a liberal in the real world.

Honestly I would be willing to call myself a conservative, but conservatives on these forums have made it clear that I disagree with them too much to fit in with that crowd. I’m a man without a country, metaphorically speaking, as a decent number of Catholics are I feel.
 
maybe it is not fair for many to think of “most liberals” as Democrats. Isn’t the question can you be Catholic and support and vote for a party which promotes and votes abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, same sex marriage? Please don’t say that because the Dems promote social justice, eliminate death penalty and other social issues that this compensates for the first mentioned issues. This is comparing apples to oranges.
 
manualman said:
Politics and faith rarely (if at all) line up neatly.

IMO, catholicism aligns fairly well with SOME aspects of liberal politics in America:
  1. Death penalty needs to be abolished.
  2. Immigration needs drastic reform and there needs to be a much more open path for large numbers of poor immigrants BEFORE there is a border/wall crackdown.
  3. Government needs to play a role providing some level of starvation/exposure prevention for the poor.
  4. Government needs to regulate commerce and protect the populace from exploitive behaviors among the wealthy (financial, legal, environmental, etc).
On the other hand, catholicism is diametrically opposed to many aspects of American political liberalism:
  1. Abortion (and abortion imperialism abroad)
  2. Eugenics / Contraceptive imperialism. (We spend an amazing amount of money trying to prevent ‘brown’ people from being conceived overseas).
  3. Socialist agendas (politicians are just as corruptable as oligarchs).
  4. Euthanasia and the trend towards a utilitarian measure of human worth.
  5. Culture. Liberals tend to be of the mindset that the only thing that is bad is calling something bad. We’ve turned reality on its head in this country, mostly with liberals leading the charge.
I no longer call myself a conservative and I can’t stomach the Rush Limbaugh show anymore. But you better not call me a liberal. I’m catholic.
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👍 I like this. Now could you do the same for conservatism? What lines up where with them?

(Don’t mean to put you on the spot, but a man who could do it fairly for one side, has probably thought about both)
 
davidmlamb said:
Its not contradictory at all! Employees are already forced into a mandated system where the employer sets their wages and benifits and can hire and fire at will. That’s a mandated system. The Employee free Will Act takes away the employer ability to stop employees from forming a union to collective bargain for their wages. Collectively bargaining for wages and benefits leads to better pay and benefits giving the employees more economic freedom.

Peace,

David
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Ok, but what if I don’t want to be in the union? I’ve been in them before, they are not all they are hyped up to be. It also takes away my right to individually bargain.
 
jdau said:
maybe it is not fair for many to think of “most liberals” as Democrats. Isn’t the question can you be Catholic and support and vote for a party which promotes and votes abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality, same sex marriage? Please don’t say that because the Dems promote social justice, eliminate death penalty and other social issues that this compensates for the first mentioned issues. This is comparing apples to oranges.
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See this link for how a majority of Americans in various groupings are in favor of the death penalty. My personal position is in line with the Catholic Church, but I am pointing this out to you because the claim (made often on this website) that Democrats and/or liberals are anti-death penalty is wrong and has been for about 50 years.
deathpenaltyinfo.org/gallup-poll-who-supports-death-penalty

It’s my opinion that liberals close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears to stay uninformed on a lot of issues because once you have knowledge you are accountable for ignoring it.
 
AHapka said:
Ok, but what if I don’t want to be in the union? I’ve been in them before, they are not all they are hyped up to be. It also takes away my right to individually bargain.
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If you don’t want the company you work for to become union then you don’t sign the union card. But if 70% of the employees sign a union card then you have been out voted. This in no way takes away your right to bargain for your wages, but allows you to bargain for them. If you still don’t want to be in a union you have the freedom to look for another job and bargain for your wages there. Your problem here is you hold to an “individualism” doctrine. The Church condemns individualism. Your job is a community and the common good must be served. Unions provide better working conditions, pay, and benefits that help families live in solidarity and peace.

Dave
 
Voting for a liberal candidate does not always mean you are a liberal. In my experience many people vote not so much on the issue, but the role they believe the government should play in controlling that issue. For example, I know Democrats who are personally against abortion, but do not feel they or the government should be making the decision for an individual. This is more “anti-big government” than “pro” something else.

As another example, people have voted pro-life for a long time and ended up not seeing the abortion laws change. What good did it really do to vote for a candidate based on this one issue if nothing changes? So pro-life voters start to vote based on other criteria. This is one reason I think Obama was able to get elected. We didn’t really see much change around these issues when Republicans had control so people became ambivalent, even when voting for Obama was contrary to their personal beliefs.

In these situations I can see how some Catholics might see their vote for liberal candidates not being against church teaching.
 
Isaiah 10 ,

is the best and most comprehensive answer I’ve seen on this subject. The Sound Doctrine - without fail, it clears the air.

Thank you to that poster…and God bless you.

To all you catholic/liberals - all you Pelosi’s and Cuomos’ …may God forgive you and show you His Way.
 
perro_sarnoso said:
Isaiah 10 ,

is the best and most comprehensive answer I’ve seen on this subject. The Sound Doctrine - without fail, it clears the air.

Thank you to that poster…and God bless you.

To all you catholic/liberals - all you Pelosi’s and Cuomos’ …may God forgive you and show you His Way.
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His way, of course=conservative Republican, in your mind?
 
Eugenius said:
I know Democrats who are personally against abortion, but do not feel they or the government should be making the decision for an individual.
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I know many people who are personally against drunk driving, and have no problem making the decision as to whether or not I should be doing it.

So it’s kind of a weird position to hold.
 
This topic will never quite have an end, considering many people are set in their ways, with what they disagree with the Church on or whatever…

But for argument’s sake, I will make a few points.

For the most part, the Catholic Church’s stances on everything, from abortion to capital punishment and contraception, is ITSELF the ultimate “conservative,” so as to CONSERVE what the Church has upheld for all time; and on which it will never change its position. That label hardly does it justice, however because their official position on most things however is “above all salvation,” like for instance in the case of capital punishment, and abortion.

the Catechism says, “2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. ifthis is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.”

Some “conservatives” would have one believe that we should execute criminals for killing one man only, yet we as Catholics have a duty to believe most violent criminals need reformation rather than absolute punishment. Yet there are some things that upset me about our prisons, such as the constant recreational attitudes of many prisons (prisoners watching television, eating good meals, working out, reading novels) for I do not believe it is sobering and reflective, as prison should be, rather than one, long, all-expenses-paid vacation.

As for smaller issues, like drunk driving, it is FOOLISH to believe that you could be righteous in supporting it, for this is a violation of the virtue of MODERATION and the practice of GLUTTONY.

Whether one cannot be “liberal” and be Catholic, is not particularly up for debate for modern-day liberals support things like gay marriage, contraception, and fornication/adultery in movies. The proof is in the pudding. (It, however, should be mentioned that some Democrats are socially conservative, such as Senator Ruben Diaz from NY.")

Being Catholic transcends labels like liberal and conservative, yet it is truly apparent that Catholics who are in line with the Church on ALL its teachings, and those who dissent on ANY might I add are NOT Catholic, are more likely to be conservative than not. There are some “liberal Catholics” I’d throw in, but it’s more likely that they’re outsiders in their social circles.

This is a political labeling of a religious institution. Let us end these discussions of whether we are “liberal” or “conservative”, and instead ask ourselves whether being CATHOLIC is enough…God Bless You All~
 
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