Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

[Dan_Daly]

I identify more with Roosevelt and Jefferson than with social liberals

I’m curious which Roosevelt.

FDR would be hard not to describe as a social liberal.

Teddy has much to admire about him, but if you dig more into his views you find a definite presence of the problems we face to today with life issues. He was an enthusiastic supporter of eugenics.

 

[Eugenius]

Very interesting comments all around, however most of the negative statements about liberals seem to be based more on stereotypes and propaganda than fact. As I stated earlier, many people are voting liberal or conservative based on the role they think the government should play in making decisions about certain subjects, not necessarily on whether they agree with those subjects (i.e., abortion, divorce, gay marriage, etc.)

I actually find it amusing that Catholics believe in free will, and conservatives in small government, yet both want the state to intervene and control public morality instead of leaving these decisions (and consequences) up to the individual.

On the other hand, government intervention in healthcare is suddenly labeled “socialism.” I wish we could see some consistency in how much government intervention these groups wanted to see!

Obamacare covers abortion because abortion is legal, we won’t stop abortion by scraping a much needed healthcare plan that covers what is already legal! This seems a silly position for conservatives to hold. If we want to make abortion illegal, it needs to be faced head on and made illegal.

I wish we could go back to the days when doctors and hospitals cared more about providing healthcare and less about making money. Greed and hedonism is where it is all at these days. I remember my grandfather talking about old Doc Miller making housecalls and taking chickens as payment, now you have to pay huge bills just for someone to spend twenty seconds with you and write a prescription for an outrageously expensive medicine.

 

[Eugenius]

It’s pretty clear to everyone at this point that man made global warming isn’t happening. Even those who were some of the main pushers of the idea/deception have now admitted that the earth is getting COOLER. Which is why you don’t hear about “global warming” anymore…you hear about “climate change” instead.

The clues were there for anyone to see that Global warming was a lie from the beginning, but a lot of well intentioned people missed them and were duped, many of the Bishops among them.

The main source of climate change is that humankind is living in excess, which in turn creates waste, pollution and affects our planet. Regardless of what silly name people want to put on it and deny or defend, the fact remains that returning to more focused and simple living and making wise decisions would be a good thing.

 

[davidmlamb]

Everyone who pays taxes pays for abortion in the US already.

Everyone who pays health care insurance premiums pays for abortion already only on a much larger scale. The amount of abortions being performed by government is limited to the life of the mother being in danger and forcibale rape. This makes the amount of abortions the government performs miniscule. But private health care pays for 88% of all abortions in America and the consumers pay for that with their insurance premiums. Moreover, many of the consumer products that you buy, the money which you pay for those things are funneled for abortions. There really is no way to stop any of your money from being funneled indirectly to abortions. The only way to reduce the amount of money in which you pay for abortions is through government funded health care. “Obamacare” accomplishes this. So to want to return to the old system is to pay for abortions on a much larger scale. I’m wondering if you really care about abortions or if you are exploiting abortion in order to advance an agenda to undermine the new health care law to save a few tax dollars?

They Hyde Ammendment prevents taxpayer funded abortion in name, but not in practice.

You do not speak the truth. Allow me to cite the scriptures:

He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool.
Proverbs 10:18

Why were the Bishops against Obamacare if it is such a wonderful and holy thing?

I have a better question; how come Catholic bishops do not condemn all tax payer funded health care throughout the world even though everyone of them fund a limited number of abortions under certain circumstances? How come after a judge in Brazil ruled that a 9 year old who was raped and carried twins could have an abortion and yet the Bishops in Brazil never condemned their tax payer funded health care system and neither did they call for their system to be replaced with private health care insurance system?

The Bishops are not against the new healthcare law. They are praising that now 30 + million more people are covered under health care reform and that this will result in 45,000 + lives being saved every year. The Bishops only wanted to assure that abortions were not paid for while the new law was being legislated. The language of the bill prevents abortions from being paid for by tax dollars. So the Catholic Bishops are not calling for US Health Care to return to the old system. Additionally, the Catholic Church is not limited to the United States. It is not the “American” Church but the “Catholic” Church. Every other country in the world has tax payer funded health care including Italy and the Vatican. Yet Catholioc Bishops do not condemn this but instead commend it.

Finally, abortion statistics are incredibly hard to rely on in terms of absolute numbers and rates within a population- especially considering how many are caused by “contraceptives”.

Then if you believe this then how can you be certain abortions are being paid for by tax dollars? O I get it, you are only certain when it favors your arguments! This is called “deception.”

David

 

[davidmlamb]

Also, supporting abortion, in the case of rape or life of the mother, is still supporting the murder of an unborn child and is against Church teaching.
Laws that allow murder, even if we’re only allowed to murder a very few select people under specific circumstances, are still immoral…

Here is a question that I ask myself:

What if my wife’s life was in immenant danger do to a pregnancy from forcible rape and the only way to save her life was to have an abortion or else both lives are lost? What if my 13 year old daughter was forcibly raped and she became pregnant with twins? The doctor advised me that unless the pregnancy was terminated both lives would be lost? Under these circumstances I would elect to terminate the pregnancy. Admittedly this would be considered by the Church a mortal sin but my conscience could not allow my wife or daughter to die. I hope I am never faced with such a choice but I would not condemned those who were faced with such a choice.

The Church also teaches that not all issues are equivalent. When it comes to ensuring quality health care for the population vs abortion (although I think seeing it as an either or is a false choice), abortion is more important.

This is true however health care reform is already the law so your case does not apply here. As I pointed out before, it was not the government performing abortions on a wide scale. It bwas private doctors and private hospitals and the vast majority of those were paid for by private health care insurance premiums. So all things considered and not every situation being equal we cannot return to that system.

Peace,
David

 

[davidmlamb]

I’m curious which Roosevelt.

FDR would be hard not to describe as a social liberal.

Teddy has much to admire about him, but if you dig more into his views you find a definite presence of the problems we face to today with life issues. He was an enthusiastic supporter of eugenics.

Everyone of FDR’s social programs were in line with Church teachings. He never advocated abortion or contraception. Not one Catholic Bishop to my knowledge ever condemned the policies of FDR. So why would you not admire FDR?

Peace,

David

 

[Sister_Terese]

When we think of “liberals” today, we most commonly think about the Democratic party. However, that can be confusing. There are many, many Republicans who fall into this same category. Let me say this: Political and religious liberals in this country (and in Europe) tend to the humanistic belif of secularism. What lies at the root of secularism?: atheism (for the most part). There are groups of liberals that overlap. One of the groups is atheistic and anti-Christian. Many liberals (political and religious) believe that America would be a much better place if it was less of a Christian society. These are most often referred to as “secularists”. There are strongly held beliefs by secularists: a.) they believe that there is a fundamental right (read: federally sanctioned) to abortion; b.) taxpayer’s money should be used to pay for abortions; c.) they believe that abortion should be promoted worldwide; d.) they believe homosexuality is perfectly natural and normal, therefore, morally permissible; they believe it is implicit in the Constitution; and that anyone who disagrees with the homosexual agenda is “homophobic”; e.) they believe that for every social problem there should be a federally mandated law/agency as a solution.

Liberals control much of the mainstream, national media, Hollywood elitists, and the country’s colleges and universities. They are pumping “pods” of themselves by the hundreds each school year into businesses and political arenas. For any Christian, being a liberal in the truest sense, whether socially, politically, or religiously, is a two-edged sword, and, in my opinion, an true example of an “oxymoron.”

Sister Terese Peter, OSB

 

[davidmlamb]

When we think of “liberals” today, we most commonly think about the Democratic party. However, that can be confusing. There are many, many Republicans who fall into this same category. Let me say this: Political and religious liberals in this country (and in Europe) tend to the humanistic belif of secularism. What lies at the root of secularism?: atheism (for the most part). There are groups of liberals that overlap. One of the groups is atheistic and anti-Christian. Many liberals (political and religious) believe that America would be a much better place if it was less of a Christian society. These are most often referred to as “secularists”. There are strongly held beliefs by secularists: a.) they believe that there is a fundamental right (read: federally sanctioned) to abortion; b.) taxpayer’s money should be used to pay for abortions; c.) they believe that abortion should be promoted worldwide; d.) they believe homosexuality is perfectly natural and normal, therefore, morally permissible; they believe it is implicit in the Constitution; and that anyone who disagrees with the homosexual agenda is “homophobic”; e.) they believe that for every social problem there should be a federally mandated law/agency as a solution.

Liberals control much of the mainstream, national media, Hollywood elitists, and the country’s colleges and universities. They are pumping “pods” of themselves by the hundreds each school year into businesses and political arenas. For any Christian, being a liberal in the truest sense, whether socially, politically, or religiously, is a two-edged sword, and, in my opinion, an true example of an “oxymoron.”

Sister Terese Peter, OSB

Greetings Sister Terese!

Not everything labeled liberal is evil and not everything labeled conservative is good. Good is good and evil is evil. We need to be giuded by our Catholic faith to know the difference.

Peace Be with you,

David

 

[zenith15]

Depends on what you mean by “liberal”. If by liberal you mean a person who approves of gay marriage, the pro-“choice” movement, euthanasia, etc then no, you cannot be both a liberal and a Catholic. At least you cannot be an orthodox Catholic. If, however, you mean by liberal a person who approves of the welfare system, universal health care, and is against the death penalty etc then yes, you can be a liberal and a Catholic. Remember, there are different types of liberals. The kind that goes against the Church’s moral teachings is incompatible with orthodox Catholicism. The kind that does not go against the Church’s teachings is compatible with the orthodox Catholicism.

I thank you very much for this post, Holly–it clarifies for me something I was very concerned about. I am in that second category you mentioned and felt as though I seemed to have no place here on this board. Thanks for setting that straight for me.

 

[Rock_Happy]

What are generally called liberal today, have values which are considered normal or conservative tomorrow. Conservatives today will be seen in a less kind light historically. This has always been the case through history. You cannot stop the sweep of time and social progress.

On the social justice issues, I think that providing education, caring for the sick and poor, choosing peace over war… in short the really core liberal traits, are quite consistent with Catholicism.

By the way, it is possible to be conservative and in favor of abortion. Strictly speaking, opposing abortion is a religious position. A case could be made that a strict interpretation of the US Constitution would allow abortion. When homosexual marriage becomes legal it will be on Constitutional grounds, at least so it seems. Conservatives and liberals alike would say that they prefer to see the Constitutional rights of all citizens protected. So, similarly to the opposition to abortion, the opposition to the gay civil rights movement is a religious one, and not related to core conservative or liberal values.

To the extent that the Republican party has found it advantageous to exploit the religious right, there has been a growing confusion in the Republican party about the separation of Church and State, and the traditional place that religious leaders have had in the political realm. Another issue is that our society is simply more diverse, or more accurately there are more voices and interests who want their civil rights.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Here is a question that I ask myself:

What if my wife’s life was in immenant danger do to a pregnancy from forcible rape and the only way to save her life was to have an abortion or else both lives are lost? What if my 13 year old daughter was forcibly raped and she became pregnant with twins? The doctor advised me that unless the pregnancy was terminated both lives would be lost? Under these circumstances I would elect to terminate the pregnancy. Admittedly this would be considered by the Church a mortal sin but my conscience could not allow my wife or daughter to die. I hope I am never faced with such a choice but I would not condemned those who were faced with such a choice.

This is true however health care reform is already the law so your case does not apply here. As I pointed out before, it was not the government performing abortions on a wide scale. It bwas private doctors and private hospitals and the vast majority of those were paid for by private health care insurance premiums. So all things considered and not every situation being equal we cannot return to that system.

Peace,
David

David,

You seem very angry and are misreading, either intentionally or unintentionally much of what I’ve said.

Planned parenthood recieves a great deal of taxpayer money. Planned parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the US. Taxmoney goes to abortion, Hyde Ammendment or not. That is the truth.

I don’t support “going back” to the current health care system and leaving it alone. I agree that there are many issues with health care. Where I disagree is what the issues are and how to make things better.

I have never said that the Catholic Church is an exclusively American institution or that folks living in other countries don’t matter.

You agreed with me that abortion was a more important issue then health care, but then you said this doesn’t matter because “obamacare” is now the law. Just because something is the law doesn’t mean we have to stop debating it and simply accept it forever. Roe Vs Wade is the law as well. Legal does not equal moral. Illegal does not equal immoral. If your argument was true, laws would never need to be changed, because we would simply accept the status quo on everything.

You are correct that a large number of organizations funnel money to support abortion. Everything from AT&T to Susan G Komen, to Catholic Campaign for Human Development. This often happens without our knowledge. We must seek to inform ourselves and when we become aware our money is being used to support evil, we have a duty to try and change things so it doesn’t. This is the case with the government. We know our taxmoney supports abortion. So we should try and change that. We should also work towards making abortion illegal, and we must also work towards changing hearts so people don’t have abortions legal or illegal.

I hope that explains somethings better.

Pax.

 

[Dan_Daly]

On the social justice issues, I think that providing education, caring for the sick and poor, choosing peace over war… in short the really core liberal traits, are quite consistent with Catholicism.

This is where there is a disconnect between thought and reality.

Providing Education- do public schools provide an education? Or do they condition children to follow orders and undermine their morality? Does increasing education funding increase education results? The emphatic verdict of our country’s history is NO.

Caring for the Sick and poor- Money does not equal care. A check in the mail from the government can not provide the care that a human being who loves you can. Liberals may think and say they support caring for the sick and poor, but what their policies do is force someone else to give money to the sick and poor. An earlier poster put it very well…the first Christians didn’t demand the Roman Emperor setup “social welfare” programs run by the government for the poor. They simply went out and took care of the poor.

Choosing War over Peace- at least in American history, War just as often has come at the hands of liberals. Look at two of our most liberal Presidents- Wilson and Obama. To paraphrase a famous commercial…“Where’s the PEACE?”

All that being said, I want to be clear that I do not equate Catholicism with Republicanism. The Republican “Conservative” culture has lots of problems of its own. American culture in general is at odds with our Catholic faith. “The American Dream” is a materialistic view of life. The American view of Freedom- I can do whatever I want as long as I don’t hurt someone else- is also flawed. This is an elevation of our own will. The Catholic view of Freedom is that it requires submission of our will to the will of God, and that we are only free to do that which is right.

Pax.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Good people have the same values. You misconstrue my sentiment if you think that I believe that conservatives are in favor of war, opposed to education, and so on… the difference is how best to achieve those ends.

You just being silly in your criticism.

 

[Rock_Happy]

Pax - are you not confusing principles with the means… I know that they overlap. When I said that education, etc… are core liberal values, that was not saying that they are not also core conservative values. I believe that all people want pretty much the same thing. They just differ on the best means to achieve that.

This is where there is a disconnect between thought and reality.

Providing Education- do public schools provide an education? Or do they condition children to follow orders and undermine their morality? Does increasing education funding increase education results? The emphatic verdict of our country’s history is NO.

Caring for the Sick and poor- Money does not equal care. A check in the mail from the government can not provide the care that a human being who loves you can. Liberals may think and say they support caring for the sick and poor, but what their policies do is force someone else to give money to the sick and poor. An earlier poster put it very well…the first Christians didn’t demand the Roman Emperor setup “social welfare” programs run by the government for the poor. They simply went out and took care of the poor.

Choosing War over Peace- at least in American history, War just as often has come at the hands of liberals. Look at two of our most liberal Presidents- Wilson and Obama. To paraphrase a famous commercial…“Where’s the PEACE?”

All that being said, I want to be clear that I do not equate Catholicism with Republicanism. The Republican “Conservative” culture has lots of problems of its own. American culture in general is at odds with our Catholic faith. “The American Dream” is a materialistic view of life. The American view of Freedom- I can do whatever I want as long as I don’t hurt someone else- is also flawed. This is an elevation of our own will. The Catholic view of Freedom is that it requires submission of our will to the will of God, and that we are only free to do that which is right.

Pax.

 

[lynnvinc]

It’s pretty clear to everyone at this point that man made global warming isn’t happening. Even those who were some of the main pushers of the idea/deception have now admitted that the earth is getting COOLER. Which is why you don’t hear about “global warming” anymore…you hear about “climate change” instead.

The clues were there for anyone to see that Global warming was a lie from the beginning, but a lot of well intentioned people missed them and were duped, many of the Bishops among them.

I think the reason you don’t hear about global warming anymore is the same reason you haven’t heard much about it for the past 20 years. The media are bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industries, with Exxon and Koch being the most ruthless in their funding of climate change denialism.

I’ve been following the science like a hawk for over 20 years, reading the science in top science journals, and even wrote my thesis – Environmental Victimology – partly on it. What I know is this, the science on anthropogenic climate change (AKA global warming, the greenhouse effect) has become stronger and more robust with evidence from many different sources converging, and the message has gotten more and more dire. We are on the brink of pushing the earth systems into what JPII called “the abyss,” except he naively thought in his statement, The Ecological Conversion, that we understand this and are stopping short of it. But apparently we are not, since the climate change denialism is growing stronger, as the science on climate change – that it is real and dangerous – is increasing.

As for the supposed cooling – wrong. It’s been warming over the past 60 years, even the past 10 years, when we SHOULD have been cooling. What that means is once the solar minimum cycle is over (with lower irradiance from the sun), then it will really heat up a lot faster as we go into a solar maximum on top of anthropogenic global warming from the greenhouse effect. This does not bode well for life on earth, including human life.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and reduce our greenhouse gases and other harms. I would hope that at least some Catholics would also do whatever they can to reduce their greenhouse gases thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alternative energy when feasable and affordable. For one thing, it can be done in ways that save money without lowering living standards down to at least a 50% or more reduction. So over the past 21 years we have become richer & are laughing all the way to the bank. Just think if everyone had heeded JPII’s admonition 21 years ago to mitigate global warming (and other serious environmental problems), our economy would have been in much better shape today. However, instead of seeking first the kingdom of God and its righteousness, Americans got into speculating on real estate (used to be called home buying) they could not afford and other greedy endeavors.

So much for living in a “Christian” (and “religious”) country.

The difference between conservatives and liberals is that they will be spending their eternity in much hotter place than a globally warmed world for different reasons. Let us pray for their souls.

 

[lynnvinc]

It’s pretty clear to everyone at this point that man made global warming isn’t happening. Even those who were some of the main pushers of the idea/deception have now admitted that the earth is getting COOLER.

Here is something to explain why the climate has not been warming as rapidly as before: dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1333225/Global-warming-slowing-say-scientists.html .

I forgot to mention the aerosol effect, especially from the SO2 from increased burning of coal. SO2 causes a cooling effect that counteracts the warming effect from CO2, CH4 and other GHGs, but its molecules only stay in the atmosphere a few weeks, unlike CO2
which stays for over 100 years (some even up to 100,000 years - see here); and CH4 which stays for about 10 years, then degrades into CO2 and other gases.

So along with the solar minimum there has been the aerosol cooling effect, and these together should have led to great deal of cooling…but what we got as a net effect was warming, but not as rapid warming as before, and not as rapid as expected once these cooling effects are reduced or gone.

We should be concerned about the children and future generations. Hopefully we will put an end to abortion, or at least reduce it signficantly. And if we do, then we should also make sure the children and those yet to be born have a hospitable climate and world in which to survive and thrive.

If God wants to crash a giant astroid into earth and end all live (or do so thru supernatural means), I figure that is His prerogative and business, but we should not be in the business of ending life on earth thru climate change effects of extreme droughts, floods, glacier & snowpack melt, disease spread, ocean death (thru acidification, warming & pollution), severe storms, wildfires, heat deaths, species loss, and heat deaths.

Let us be good and do good, whether we be conservative or liberal Catholics or people of good will.

 

[ManOnFire]

I actually find it amusing that Catholics believe in free will, and conservatives in small government, yet both want the state to intervene and control public morality instead of leaving these decisions (and consequences) up to the individual.

The profiteers of hedonism are reducing religious morality. The govt. is only stepping in with financial aid once the wound has been received. Why not do something to prevent the wound BEOFRE it happens? Our social problems are causing our financial problems. I would rather have free will in the context of a clean society. Imagine the relative innocence of the Rennaissance. We won’t need as much fiscal govt. intervention once families are freer from the social distractions which are breaking families apart.

 

[davidmlamb]

David,

You seem very angry and are misreading, either intentionally or unintentionally much of what I’ve said.

Planned parenthood recieves a great deal of taxpayer money. Planned parenthood is the largest abortion provider in the US. Taxmoney goes to abortion, Hyde Ammendment or not. That is the truth.

It is not the truth, it is a lie from Hell! I am not an angry person, Im just calling you on your rhetoric. And I am not misreading what you are saying. You have not addressed any of my points. You argue that Obamacare is something bad and your implications are that it should be repealed because it provides funding for abortions. But you ignored the fact that private health care insurance has been providing abortions on a much larger scale for years. Planned parenthood receives its abortion funding not by tax payers but by insurance premiums and women who pay for it out of pocket.

This makes me believe you don’t really care about abortions but are grandstanding here because you don’t want to have your tax dollars raised in order to cover tens of millions of more people for health care. Obamacare will literally save 45,000+ lives a year and cut down on the number of abortions…

To appeal Obamacare is to formally cooperate with a culture of greed and death. As I pointed out before it is immorally illicit to exploit one intrinsic evil (abortion) to ignore or show indifference to another (euthenasia). Obamacare forces insurance company’s to drop their abortion provisions and therefore far less abortions are being performed. But you don’t care about abortions you care about paying less taxes and having a smaller government even if that cost lives. You don’t have me fooled and neither do you have God fooled. Woe to you on the day of judgement!

I don’t support “going back” to the current health care system and leaving it alone. I agree that there are many issues with health care. Where I disagree is what the issues are and how to make things better.

You have not provided a solution and you have had many years to do so but you ignored the millions of people who were suffering and the tens of thousands per year who were being euthenized and the millions of children who were aborted by the power of capitalism. Your silence on this matter makes your intentions clear, that you want to return to the old system because thats the system you never did anything about. Instead, you casted in your lot with right wing conservatism, an apostacy which many Catholics have subsituted for the Holy Faith. Woe to you on the day of judgment (see Matthew 7:21-23).!

I have never said that the Catholic Church is an exclusively American institution or that folks living in other countries don’t matter.

You clearly imply it and what matters is that publicly paid health care is very effective, dramatically cuts down on abortions and euthenasia and we have the data from other countries to prove that. What also matters is that the Catholic Church supports publicly paid health care while at the same time condemning the old US system of health care. The fact that you ignore these truths clearly demonstrates you are only Catholic in name but in practice, you support individualism which is an American concept opposed to Catholic teaching.

You agreed with me that abortion was a more important issue then health care, but then you said this doesn’t matter because “obamacare” is now the law. Just because something is the law doesn’t mean we have to stop debating it and simply accept it forever.

I didn’t agree with you that health care reform should be held hostage because women freely choose to have abortions. Only women can prevent abortions by acting morally and choosing not to have them. But only Health Care reform can prevent the wide spread euthenasia that private health care forces on the US public. Obamacare ended that quite nicely. Those who supported Obamacare actually supported human life and human dignity. Those who opposed it opposed human life and human dignity in order to save a few tax dollars. And they exploited abortion to advance that agenda. This is evil and you are cooperating with evil. Its time for you to start speaking the truth. Its time for you to stop paying lip service to pro life. Being pro life means its going to cost you something. I am willing to pay a lot more taxes if it means supporting human life and human dignity and you should be willing to do the same. Jesus told the rich man that unless he was willing to surrender all his wealth for the common good he could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Hence, we need to render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.

In Christ,

David

 

[davidmlamb]

I think the reason you don’t hear about global warming anymore is the same reason you haven’t heard much about it for the past 20 years. The media are bought and paid for by the fossil fuel industries, with Exxon and Koch being the most ruthless in their funding of climate change denialism.

I’ve been following the science like a hawk for over 20 years, reading the science in top science journals, and even wrote my thesis – Environmental Victimology – partly on it. What I know is this, the science on anthropogenic climate change (AKA global warming, the greenhouse effect) has become stronger and more robust with evidence from many different sources converging, and the message has gotten more and more dire. We are on the brink of pushing the earth systems into what JPII called “the abyss,” except he naively thought in his statement, The Ecological Conversion, that we understand this and are stopping short of it. But apparently we are not, since the climate change denialism is growing stronger, as the science on climate change – that it is real and dangerous – is increasing.

As for the supposed cooling – wrong. It’s been warming over the past 60 years, even the past 10 years, when we SHOULD have been cooling. What that means is once the solar minimum cycle is over (with lower irradiance from the sun), then it will really heat up a lot faster as we go into a solar maximum on top of anthropogenic global warming from the greenhouse effect. This does not bode well for life on earth, including human life.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and reduce our greenhouse gases and other harms. I would hope that at least some Catholics would also do whatever they can to reduce their greenhouse gases thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alternative energy when feasable and affordable. For one thing, it can be done in ways that save money without lowering living standards down to at least a 50% or more reduction. So over the past 21 years we have become richer & are laughing all the way to the bank. Just think if everyone had heeded JPII’s admonition 21 years ago to mitigate global warming (and other serious environmental problems), our economy would have been in much better shape today. However, instead of seeking first the kingdom of God and its righteousness, Americans got into speculating on real estate (used to be called home buying) they could not afford and other greedy endeavors.

So much for living in a “Christian” (and “religious”) country.

The difference between conservatives and liberals is that they will be spending their eternity in much hotter place than a globally warmed world for different reasons. Let us pray for their souls.

AMEN! And God bless you for speaking the truth. Conservatism has long ago morphed into something evil. Conservatism is the new liberalism. It has become more of a religion and has been for many Catholics a subsitution for Apostolic faith. This makes neo conservatism an apostacy! Let us hear the words of the Apostle Paul:

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! -Galatians 1
Peace,

David

 

[Dan_Daly]

It is not the truth, it is a lie from Hell! I am not an angry person, Im just calling you on your rhetoric. And I am not misreading what you are saying. You have not addressed any of my points. You argue that Obamacare is something bad and your implications are that it should be repealed because it provides funding for abortions. But you ignored the fact that private health care insurance has been providing abortions on a much larger scale for years. Planned parenthood receives its abortion funding not by tax payers but by insurance premiums and women who pay for it out of pocket.

This makes me believe you don’t really care about abortions but are grandstanding here because you don’t want to have your tax dollars raised in order to cover tens of millions of more people for health care. Obamacare will literally save 45,000+ lives a year and cut down on the number of abortions…

To appeal Obamacare is to formally cooperate with a culture of greed and death. As I pointed out before it is immorally illicit to exploit one intrinsic evil (abortion) to ignore or show indifference to another (euthenasia). Obamacare forces insurance company’s to drop their abortion provisions and therefore far less abortions are being performed. But you don’t care about abortions you care about paying less taxes and having a smaller government even if that cost lives. You don’t have me fooled and neither do you have God fooled. Woe to you on the day of judgement!

You have not provided a solution and you have had many years to do so but you ignored the millions of people who were suffering and the tens of thousands per year who were being euthenized and the millions of children who were aborted by the power of capitalism. Your silence on this matter makes your intentions clear, that you want to return to the old system because thats the system you never did anything about. Instead, you casted in your lot with right wing conservatism, an apostacy which many Catholics have subsituted for the Holy Faith. Woe to you on the day of judgment (see Matthew 7:21-23).!

You clearly imply it and what matters is that publicly paid health care is very effective, dramatically cuts down on abortions and euthenasia and we have the data from other countries to prove that. What also matters is that the Catholic Church supports publicly paid health care while at the same time condemning the old US system of health care. The fact that you ignore these truths clearly demonstrates you are only Catholic in name but in practice, you support individualism which is an American concept opposed to Catholic teaching.

I didn’t agree with you that health care reform should be held hostage because women freely choose to have abortions. Only women can prevent abortions by acting morally and choosing not to have them. But only Health Care reform can prevent the wide spread euthenasia that private health care forces on the US public. Obamacare ended that quite nicely. Those who supported Obamacare actually supported human life and human dignity. Those who opposed it opposed human life and human dignity in order to save a few tax dollars. And they exploited abortion to advance that agenda. This is evil and you are cooperating with evil. Its time for you to start speaking the truth. Its time for you to stop paying lip service to pro life. Being pro life means its going to cost you something. I am willing to pay a lot more taxes if it means supporting human life and human dignity and you should be willing to do the same. Jesus told the rich man that unless he was willing to surrender all his wealth for the common good he could not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Hence, we need to render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.

In Christ,

David

David,

You presume to know an awful lot about me.

Do private insurance companies support abortion? Yes, some do. However, a citizen is not forced to do business with private insurance companies that support abortion. There is an option for citizens to support life by their choice of insurance company. When you choose not to pay your taxes you can go to jail. Taxes aren’t voluntary. That is the difference between governement funded abortion and privately funded abortion. Both are evil. Taxfunding subject everyone to supporting the evil.

Who are the 45,000 people who died each year before and will be saved by “obamacare”? What did they die from? How would they have been saved?

You repeatedly said that “Obamacare” will end euthenasia. I strongly disagree. It will promote it. When a government panel makes decisions on which lives are “worth” saving from a cost standpoint, how will the elderly, infirm, and mentally handicapped fare? Poorly I think.

You also missed my point regarding abortions caused by “contraceptives”. Abortion statistics are not totally useless. We know abortions are happening. However, the stats on how many abortions occur are all TOO LOW, because of how many are caused by “contraceptives”. The medical community has redefined conception and pregnancy to being at implantation. Conception occurs at fertilization. Most chemical birth control can prevent implantation if it fails to prevent fertilization. That is the killing of a human being aka abortion. The horror of the killing is added to by how many woman (and men) don’t even know that this can and does occur, because the culture lies to them about what they are doing.

Pax.