Can you be both Catholic and liberal?

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  1. Where in the world did you get such a silly notion. Conservatives in favor of ending all life on earth? This is a horrible thing to accuse others of, and you should apologize and get yourself to Confession. I mean REALLY, you think conservatives want to end life on earth…REALLY!!!
My experience. Most conservative politicos I know about don’t care if anthropogenic global warming will tip our earth systems into a venus syndrome, which would kill all life on earth. In fact, they are even worse than that – they deny it, like Cain on steroids.

Now that is no reflection on conservative people and voters, many of whom are in favor of mitigating global warming. I respect their decision to vote for the pro-death conservative candidates, because they are concerned about other life issues, such as abortion.

But I simply cannot vote for those candidates.

I think the big problem here on this thread is that liberal candidates are in general pro-life on some issues, pro-death on others; and conservative candidates are pro-life on different issues, and pro-death on different issues. It makes it really hard for anyone who is sincerely pro-life all the way to choose. It’s like being a general in a bloody war – you know whatever decision you make people will die, but you strive to make the decisions that will do the least damage. For some, according to their knowledge and experience, that is the conservative candidate, for others that is the liberal.

I would not want to judge anyone here in this forum; I think we are all pro-life and earnestly want the common good. We just have different knowledge and experiences, which lead us to different decisions – even though our overall goals are all the same, the ushering in of God’s kingdom of goodness and righteousness.

So please don’t think I am speaking of anyone here…only what I see in the political arenas, the conservative politicians, their stances, views, and values. I do think many of them would sacrifice all life on earth for their private goals. That’s precisely what it looks like to me. If we common people make mistakes that result in large-scale death, it’s surely a matter of “we know not what we do,” but when the politicos do it, it seems they surely know what they do (or should know).
 
My experience. Most conservative politicos I know about don’t care if anthropogenic global warming will tip our earth systems into a venus syndrome, which would kill all life on earth. In fact, they are even worse than that – they deny it, like Cain on steroids…
I suspect they don’t believe in global warming. Don’t want to get into that discussion, not knowing enough about it.
But we do know that abortion is one of the non-negotiables for the Church. We can’t equate global warming with abortion, calling them both pro-death issues. Global warming, according to many, is a nebulous unproved concept. Abortion kills human beings directly.
 
I suspect they don’t believe in global warming. Don’t want to get into that discussion, not knowing enough about it.
But we do know that abortion is one of the non-negotiables for the Church. We can’t equate global warming with abortion, calling them both pro-death issues. Global warming, according to many, is a nebulous unproved concept. Abortion kills human beings directly.
My situation is this – I’ve never had an abortion, and I never will. But I am harming and killing people through global warming – with 1st studies reaching scientific certainty (.05 on the null) in 1995; and now 100% of all bona fide, working, publishing climate scientists agree it is happening.

However, I didn’t need 95% certainty I was killing people to start measures to cease and desist…which I did back in 1990, the same year JPII admonished EVERYONE to mitigate climate change (called the greenhouse effect back then) in his 1/1/90 “Peace with All Creation” message. And both JPII and BXVI have made many more statements to the same effect over the past 21 years. But who listens to them???

So that is my main issue, to do what I can to reduce my killing of people. But I also try to get others to also reduce, as well, both global warming and abortion, and joining with groups who give items to pregnancy centers, etc. It’s not as if you can only do one thing – either refrain from having an abortion or reduce your greenhouse gases. We can do both, and much more.

This isn’t rocket science. The Commandments tell us, “Thou shalt not kill.”

So, of course, it would be much worse if I were getting an abortion or killing a store clerk in a robbery…but I’m not. But I am killing and harming in other ways.
 
My situation is this – I’ve never had an abortion, and I never will. But I am harming and killing people through global warming – with 1st studies reaching scientific certainty (.05 on the null) in 1995; and now 100% of all bona fide, working, publishing climate scientists agree it is happening.

However, I didn’t need 95% certainty I was killing people to start measures to cease and desist…which I did back in 1990, the same year JPII admonished EVERYONE to mitigate climate change (called the greenhouse effect back then) in his 1/1/90 “Peace with All Creation” message. And both JPII and BXVI have made many more statements to the same effect over the past 21 years. But who listens to them???

So that is my main issue, to do what I can to reduce my killing of people. But I also try to get others to also reduce, as well, both global warming and abortion, and joining with groups who give items to pregnancy centers, etc. It’s not as if you can only do one thing – either refrain from having an abortion or reduce your greenhouse gases. We can do both, and much more.

This isn’t rocket science. The Commandments tell us, “Thou shalt not kill.”

So, of course, it would be much worse if I were getting an abortion or killing a store clerk in a robbery…but I’m not. But I am killing and harming in other ways.
could you provide any citation to this claim that people are dying now from global warming? People actually live better under warmer conditions, as crops grow better, and starvation is lessened. So any warming that we may have seen recently has actually DECREASED the number of dying.

You are using this as an excuse to allow you to violate Church teaching for your personal politics.
 
could you provide any citation to this claim that people are dying now from global warming? People actually live better under warmer conditions, as crops grow better, and starvation is lessened. So any warming that we may have seen recently has actually DECREASED the number of dying.

You are using this as an excuse to allow you to violate Church teaching for your personal politics.
She has not violated any of the Churches teachings. The Church teaches that you cannot use abortion as a means to ignore, show indifference towards or promote other intrinisic evils against human life and human dignity. That is what you are doing. The GOP has not saved 1 baby from an abortion because they can’t. Only women can prevent abortions. The Church further teaches us that when it comes to being a faithful citizen and voting, we must consider the art of the possibility and use prudence to make a prudential judgment. Had John McCain and Sarah Palin won the election not one baby would have been saved from abortion and neither would we have Universal Health Care that saves lives. Because of the new health care law the days of corporate health care rationing our health care, denying health care because of pre existing conditions and bankrupting the middle class are OVER! Neither would we have cap and trade laws that have proven success in cleaning up the environment. My prudential judgment to vote democrat has actually saved lives while voting for a GOP has costs lives and kept many people in poverty while making the rich richer and the middle class poorer and the environment less habital.

In the Service of Christ and the Church,

David
 
Had John McCain and Sarah Palin won the election not one baby would have been saved from abortion
I would like to know on what basis, and with what source material, you are making this statement. I would think this would be something that only God knows.
 
I would like to know on what basis, and with what source material, you are making this statement. I would think this would be something that only God knows.
There are two primary reasons I know this:
  1. Presidents cannot overturn Abortion Laws as they are now because abortion is considered a constitutional right that is tied to “reproductive rights” for women. That is what Roe V Wade was all about and therefore states do not have the right to outlaw abortion. There is nothing the President can do to change this. If Roe V Wade is ever overturned (and there are enough conservative judges to overturn it now) then abortion laws will go back to the states. About bhalf of the states will keep abortion legal. This means that even if Roe V Wade is ever overturned women who live in states where abortion will be outlawed will be easily able to cross statelines to procure an abortion and come back free from prosecution. This leads to the second reason why John McCain would have not been able to do anything about abortions:
  2. Only women can prevent abortions and not Presidents. Do you realize that there is absolutely no correlation between the number of abortions and the political parties in power? That’s right, during the 8 years President Bush was President there was no significant change in abortion numbers from the 8 years of Bill Clinton. Abortion numbers actually spiked during the Reagan years but this had nothing to do with the political powers in authority.
So the bottom line is Barack Obama is not affecting abortions, not at all. Women are the only ones who affect abortions and they will procure them regardless of who is in the White House.

Peace,
David.
 
could you provide any citation to this claim that people are dying now from global warming?
Don’t have time to hunt for sources right now, but I read several years ago that WHO estimates some 150,000 die each year just from disease vectors spreading into new areas due to the warming, and that half of the 40,000+ heat deaths in Europe in the summer of 2003 could be attributed to AGW. Also, that heat deaths are increasing in recent times. It is not as much the heat during the day (diurnal maximum) but the heat at night (GW is increasing the diurnal minimum faster than the diurnal max, which is a signature of GW) that doesn’t allow the body to recouperate that mainly led to the heat deaths in Europe, tho day time heat stroke is also a danger.

The warming also increases the severity of droughts, floods, wildfires, storms & hurricanes (warmer air sucks up the moisture from plants and land desiccating these; warmer sea temps contribute to hurricanes intensity) – so at least a portion of those dying from these would be due to the difference if those events had happened without the extra harm from global warming factored in.

But we need to look at it this way: It is often the last few inches of flooding that breaks the levee or destroys a home, or the extra intensity of a storm or hurricane, or dryness of a drought (often that extra which has been added on by AGW) that does the most damage.

The other thing we need to consider is that our greenhouse gases will be up in the atmosphere contributing to warming for a long time – a portion of our CO2 emissions could last up to 100,000 years (see: realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/03/how-long-will-global-warming-last/). Also, that the initial warming that we are causing is leading to dangerous positive feedbacks – by melting ice/snow cover, leaving darker surfaces, that leads to more warming, more melting, more warming; and by melting frozen methane in permafrost and in hydrates in the ocean, that methane (23 times a stronger GH gas than CO2), that released methane causes more warming, causing more melting, more warming, etc. These processes have already begun. It is sort of like we are pulling on a trigger of a very powerful shotgun, or poking a sleeping dragon.

So the GHGs we emit not only do harm for a very long time, but also cause a spiraling effect to great warming, such as e the end-Permian extinction 251 mill yrs ago when 90% of life on earth died. Except that warming process took a very long time, and we are causing the warming extremely rapidly (in geological time). And we could even tip the earth systems into a “venus syndrome” or permanent runaway warming, ending all life on earth, according to the top climate scientist at NASA, Jim Hansen (see esp page 24 of columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/AGUBjerknes_20081217.pdf

It would be difficult, if not impossible, to figure out the harm our personal GHG emissions in our time cause over the long haul – which is the way Christians in good moral standing should be looking at it, not just the deaths this year – but it could be very substantial, even subtracting off the lives saved by the warming. (For instance, some people die of heart attacks from snow shoveling; and while snow (and all precipitation) is increasing with AGW, there will be regions where snow will be replaced with rain due to the warming, and the warming could save some lives, but the net result will be tremendous death & destruction.)

I’ll be looking for sources on how AGW causes increased deaths. I just did at paper on “Food Rights [which the Holy Father champions] and Climate Change,” including a lot of peer-reviewed sources indicating out how climate change will dramatically decrease food production – even CO2, which has a slighly positive effect on some crops – but not as much as previously thought – up to a point of CO2 concentration and up to a point of the warming (up to around 2050 for northern latitudes like Europe and the U.S.), has negative effects on a lot of crops and sea-life. The overall net effect is that AGW is harming food production in many parts of the world even now, and in the future will have a net strongly negative impact.

When I came to understand back in 1990 that I was partly responsible for these harms, I made it my life work to study the issue and do whatever I could to reduce my contributions. I was willing to sacrifice, but what I found out (since my husband did not want to sacrifice) was that we have been able to reduce our GHG emissions by over 40% cost-effectively, without lowering our living standards, even raising them a bit, and saving $1000s to boot, thru energy/resource efficiency/conservation and going on alt energy when we moved to Texas and got on Green Mountain 100% wind-generated electricity.

I sincerely hope that along with all the good work we Catholics do in combatting abortion, etc, that we can also reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, as the Vatican has done (they are now “carbon neutral”).

Peace and good will.
 
You are using this [global warming] as an excuse to allow you to violate Church teaching for your personal politics.
It does make selecting a candidate that much more difficult that most of the liberals seem to support action re GW, but are pro-choice; and most of the conservatives claim to support a “pro-life” position, but not only refuse to do anything about GW, but even deny it is happening.

However, because these conservatives deny GW and will have nothing to do with mitigating it, I cannot in any way believe they are sincere about being pro-life. It’s utterly impossible that they could in fact be pro-life; it seems most likely that they are deceiving the public just to get votes. As BXVI states (at vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2010/january/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20100111_diplomatic-corps_en.html) :
I share the growing concern caused by economic and political resistance to combatting the degradation of the environment. This problem was evident even recently, during the XV Session of the Conference of the States Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change held in Copenhagen from 7 to 18 December last. I trust that in the course of this year, first in Bonn and later in Mexico City, it will be possible to reach an agreement for effectively dealing with this question. The issue is all the more important in that the very future of some nations is at stake, particularly some island states.

It is proper, however, that this concern and commitment for the environment should be situated within the larger framework of the great challenges now facing mankind. If we wish to build true peace, how can we separate, or even set at odds, the protection of the environment and the protection of human life, including the life of the unborn?
While it is impossible for pro-lifers not to also be concerned about environmental degradation and GW (which leads me to understand that many conservative candidates are not in reality pro-life, no matter how much they claim they are), unfortunately it is possible for candidates to be pro-choice (or pro-abortion) AND be for mitigating environmental problems and GW. For instance, they could be concerned about their own children and want a good, life-supporting environment for them (and be okay with others aborting theirs).

So that’s the dilemma I face: conservative candidates who say they are pro-life, but in so many many ways (not just regarding environmental harms and harm and death to people from these harms) they exhibit pro-death orientations and behavior, so that their pro-life stance seems utterly bogus…Or they lack knowledge…which is also very bad for a candidate who is supposed to be working for the common good.

v. liberal candidates who are more honest about their pro-choice stance (and it’s going to an uphill battle to convince them otherwise once they are in office), but are pro-life on other very important issues that threaten huge loss of life on planet earth, such as reducing environmental and GW harms to humanity. (See my previous post for a discussion of these tremendous harms facing us.)

So, the way I see the choices is between a totally pro-death candidate (who is most probably lying if he/she claims to be “pro-life”) v. a partly pro-life candidate, one who will hopefully steer us away from the “abyss” as JPII called it:
We must therefore encourage and support the ‘ecological conversion’ which in recent decades has made humanity more sensitive to the catastrophe to which it has been heading. Man is no longer the Creator’s ‘steward’, but an autonomous despot, who is finally beginning to understand that he must stop at the edge of the abyss.”
— Pope John Paul II, “God Made Man The Steward of Creation” (2001) www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud20010117en.html
I think if one is not sweating bullets when they go to vote and feeling bad about whatever choice they make – and perhaps even confessing these to their confessor – they are not really looking at all the important life issues properly.
 
Hi Lynne,

You really do not face that much of a dilemna when you vote. Here is the official position of the Catholic Church on the matter of voting:

From Faithful Citizenship

Making Moral Choices

*31. Decisions about political life are complex and require the exercise of a wellformed
conscience aided by prudence. This exercise of conscience begins with
outright opposition to laws and other policies that violate human life or weaken its
protection. Those who knowingly, willingly, and directly support public policies or
legislation that undermine fundamental moral principles cooperate with evil.
  1. Sometimes morally flawed laws already exist. In this situation, the process of
    framing legislation to protect life is subject to prudential judgment and “the art of
    the possible.” At times this process may restore justice only partially or gradually.
    For example, Pope John Paul II taught that when a government official who fully
    opposes abortion cannot succeed in completely overturning a pro-abortion law,
    he or she may work to improve protection for unborn human life, “limiting the
    harm done by such a law” and lessening its negative impact as much as possible
    (Evangelium Vitae, no. 73). Such incremental improvements in the law are
    acceptable as steps toward the full restoration of justice. However, Catholics must
    never abandon the moral requirement to seek full protection for all human life
    from the moment of conception until natural death.
  2. Prudential judgment is also needed in applying moral principles to specific
    policy choices in areas such as the war in Iraq, housing, health care, immigration,
    and others. This does not mean that all choices are equally valid, or that our
    guidance and that of other Church leaders is just another political opinion or
    policy preference among many others. Rather, we urge Catholics to listen carefully
    to the Church’s teachers when we apply Catholic social teaching to specific
    proposals and situations. The judgments and recommendations that we make as
    bishops on specific issues do not carry the same moral authority as statements of
    universal moral teachings. Nevertheless, the Church’s guidance on these matters
    is an essential resource for Catholics as they determine whether their own moral
    judgments are consistent with the Gospel and with Catholic teaching.
  3. Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so
    important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper
    relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes
    a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s
    intent is to support that position. In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal
    cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s
    opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other
    important moral issues involving human life and dignity.*
The choice is clear to me.

Pax Christi.
David
 
Hi Lynne,

You really do not face that much of a dilemna when you vote. Here is the official position of the Catholic Church on the matter of voting:

From Faithful Citizenship

Making Moral Choices

31. Decisions about political life are complex and require the exercise of a wellformed
conscience aided by prudence. This exercise of conscience begins with
outright opposition to laws and other policies that violate human life or weaken its
protection. Those who knowingly, willingly, and directly support public policies or
legislation that undermine fundamental moral principles cooperate with evil.

32. Sometimes morally flawed laws already exist. In this situation, the process of
framing legislation to protect life is subject to prudential judgment and “the art of
the possible.” At times this process may restore justice only partially or gradually.
For example, Pope John Paul II taught that when a government official who fully
opposes abortion cannot succeed in completely overturning a pro-abortion law,
he or she may work to improve protection for unborn human life, “limiting the
harm done by such a law” and lessening its negative impact as much as possible
(Evangelium Vitae, no. 73). Such incremental improvements in the law are
acceptable as steps toward the full restoration of justice. However, Catholics must
never abandon the moral requirement to seek full protection for all human life
from the moment of conception until natural death.

33. Prudential judgment is also needed in applying moral principles to specific
policy choices in areas such as the war in Iraq, housing, health care, immigration,
and others. This does not mean that all choices are equally valid, or that our
guidance and that of other Church leaders is just another political opinion or
policy preference among many others. Rather, we urge Catholics to listen carefully
to the Church’s teachers when we apply Catholic social teaching to specific
proposals and situations. The judgments and recommendations that we make as
bishops on specific issues do not carry the same moral authority as statements of
universal moral teachings. Nevertheless, the Church’s guidance on these matters
is an essential resource for Catholics as they determine whether their own moral
judgments are consistent with the Gospel and with Catholic teaching.

34. Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so
important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper
relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes
a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s
intent is to support that position. In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal
cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s
opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other
important moral issues involving human life and dignity.


The choice is clear to me.

Pax Christi.
David
*No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion," he said.

“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone,” he said.*

Cardinal Raymond Burke

*Obviously, we have other important issues facing us this fall: the economy, the war in Iraq, immigration justice. But we can’t build a healthy society while ignoring the routine and very profitable legalized homicide that goes on every day against America’s unborn children. The right to life is foundational. Every other right depends on it. Efforts to reduce abortions, or to create alternatives to abortion, or to foster an environment where more women will choose to keep their unborn child, can have great merit–but not if they serve to cover over or distract from the brutality and fundamental injustice of abortion itself.

Archbishop Charles Chaput
 
No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion," he said.QUOTE]

ESTABOB! Where have you been? I missed ya man! So nice to see you rejecting Church teachings again that abortion is a worse intrinsic evil then euthenasia especially when there is NOTHING Presidents or voters can do to stop women from having abortions.

Pax Christi,

David
 
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese
I’m not liberal, but I’m a Democrat. I’m also a Catholic. The word liberal doesn’t mean anything to me.
 
My point is, Jesus’s definition of sin included thought, as well as deed. Using this definition, all humans are guilty. Indeed, all humans sooner or later are guilty of sins of commission, whether the particular sin is “adultery” or not. I think that most Christians grow up thinking of this passage in just this way, that we are all sinners, and need to be forgiven, and to forgive, regardless of whether our sins are exactly the same as another’s or not. To reduce the episode of the adulteress and the Pharisees to an example of how Jesus could cleverly outwit a bunch of Pharisees, as if he was acting out of human motive, loses sight of this central message. As the agent of God’s mercy, he is incapable of toying with humans in this way. Further, being in himself divine God from God, he is incapable of being trapped. He did not, however, in his earthly life refuse the title given him of rabbi- “teacher” and in this case, he teaches the Pharisees and all of us something profound about mercy.
No matter how you try to reinterpret this passage, Jesus only mentioned sexual sins. In addition to this, forgiveness does not mean that punishment is no longer necessary or deserved. Finally, the Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus. Thus, the primary purpose of Jesus’ answer is to escape from the trap, nothing more.
 
Hi all~

I know that you cannot be both Catholic and pro-choice due to what we believe and practice as Catholics, but is it possible to be a liberal and still be a good Catholic? A lot of my extended family is left-wing, yet claim to be Catholic. My immediate family is fully conservative, however, and I have never doubted that. Is it that I don’t fully understand the term “liberal” and think that you must automatically be conservative if you’re Catholic?

Please help me understand and excuse my political ignorance… :o

~Therese
What does liberal mean anyway? What matters is your principles and whether they are consistent with Catholic Church teaching, not a label that no one seems to agree on the meaning of. Be Catholic. That is a clearly defined label, not a vague one. Liberalism itself is historically a belief that there is only pleasure and pain and no real possibility of knowledge and truth. You can find this definition giving in Adam Smith’s work “Theory of Moral Sentiments”. I don’t know the exact quote, but I am sure you can find it if you look. Liberalism is about knowledge of pleasure and pain, not the truth. It may take many forms, but it essentially boils down to that. I personally don’t call myself anything. i am a Catholic and an American citizen. I get all my economic and political doctrine from Alexander Hamilton and his collaborators and followers. Read them and you will know what to do in economics and politics, with some exceptions of course. The Pope’s social encyclicals clearly define what is a proper philosophy for one who engages in economics or political discourse and activity.
 
And abortion is not the only issue of life. War concerns life. Social programs concern life. Famine relief concerns life. Heck - even the maintenance budget of the Army Corps of Engineers concerns life, as evidenced by what happened during Hurricane Katrina.

And if it’s life you’re concerned with, those things should matter to you. Making noise on the deadlocked abortion issue will not cause any more or any fewer fetuses or embryos to be aborted. If you forget the issues where you actually can save lives to just push on the abortion issue against those who push right back, then you do life a disservice.
Man I’ve been saying that for so long, I’m glad someone else actually gets it, I thought I was the only one. For what good it does, I support politicians like Ron Paul- pro-life, but also anti-war. One can really make a difference on a local level but unfortunately I don’t know three people who vote in local elections.
 
Sec. 1713, Pg. 768, Lines 3-5 - Nurse Home Visit Services – Service #1: “Improving maternal or child health and pregnancy outcomes or increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.” Compulsory ABORTIONS?

Umm… no. I’m not sure you read what you posted?? How do you get compulsory abortions from 'improving maternal or child health (making people healthier, not aborting them) or ‘increasing birth intervals’ (teaching women not to spread their legs so often so they won’t have so many kids…)?

Sec. 1714, Pg. 769 - Federal government mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Abortion and government control intertwined.

Umm… no. Family planning services- about 3% of all FPS’ like planned parenthood, are abortion ‘services’. The rest are life-saving and healthy, preventative services like pap smears, screenings, counseling.

And this is one bill that he is pushing. Look a little deeper and find more.

Maybe you should look a lot deeper.
 
Never have I heard a “liberal” declare (as have the Popes) that **the very first obligation of the State is to provide decently for those who cannot help themselves. **
This is completely wrong. That is **not **the government’s job. The government’s “very first obligation” is to ensure we are living in a free society where we have the opportunity to help ourselves and “pursue happiness.”

Sorry, I know that quote was from a long time ago, but it just really jumped out at me. Did some Popes really say that?

-Chris
 
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