Can you change the words to the Gloria?

[hasikelee]

The parish we attend has a special “Gloria” song. About half of the actual prayer is included in the song, with additional words mixed into the lyrics.

Am I just being ornery because I like the original prayer or is this a liturgical abuse? I was surprised when I started singing along and found myself lost because the words start out the same then change to things such as “praise him in all things”

Oh yeah, and on a lighter note, why isn’t “Our God is an Amazing God” (complete with clapping and a solo jazz singer) banned from all regular Sunday Masses? The last time I sang that song, I was visiting an 8th grade Baptist friend.

 

[allhers]

I don’t know and I don’t like it either when things like that happen.
I guess I need to find out.

 

[Phemie]

NO!

GIRM 53:

1. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other text. The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.

We have the same problem in our parish where the choir has opted to resurrect an old 70s Gloria composed by Carey Landry for use at a children’s Mass. It omits several key ideas of the Gloria and frankly makes me want to throw up when I hear it.

And yes, I agree, ban “Awesome God” from all Catholic worship. I don’t mind singing it at camp with the kids but, come on, it has no place at Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

No. We are not, althuogh, OCP seems to thnk that it has a special indult to do just about anything it wants with the official texts of the Mass, especially for its Spanish versions.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says regarding the texts of the prayers and propers for the Mass (of which the Gloria is part):

[59.] The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.

Furthermore, Liturgicam Authenticam, the document that deals with the translations, also makes a very important point:

While it is permissible to arrange the wording, the syntax and the style in such a way as to prepare a flowing vernacular text suitable to the rhythm of popular prayer***, the original text, insofar as possible, must be translated integrally and in the most exact manner, without omissions or additions in terms of their content, and without paraphrases or glosses. Any adaptation to the characteristics or the nature of the various vernacular languages is to be sober and discreet.20***

Evidently, the proponents of both OCP and what the OP indicated are not following this very important guideline.

 

[bpbasilphx]

The Kyrie was frequently troped in the Middle Ages–and I’ve even seen troped Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei!

But these were suppressed by the Council of Trent.

 

[Karl_M]

Wait a minute, let me get this straight.

I’m confused-your parish actually does the Gloria?

OK, OK, my parish does too, but there’s quite a few that don’t-and I mean on “regular” Sundays during Ordinary Time.

At any rate, the Gloria is the Gloria. It can’t be changed around.

 

[buffalo]

No Way! It should be prayed or sung without refrains.

 

[hasikelee]

Wait a minute, let me get this straight.

I’m confused-your parish actually does the Gloria?

OK, OK, my parish does too, but there’s quite a few that don’t-and I mean on “regular” Sundays during Ordinary Time.

At any rate, the Gloria is the Gloria. It can’t be changed around.

Yes, they do. It starts out with a solo and then the guitars and flutes join in. Then everyone stands up and goes

Gloria! clap clap ohhhh Gloria! clap clap

Then in between they have some verses that mention the spirit of God and praising Him on high.

The parish has one older priest who says Mass about once a month (I mean the Mass we attend, he probably says many more).

Anyways, the soloist will stand up to start and that old priest will glare him down! LOL. So we chant it quietly when he says the Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

Yes, they do. It starts out with a solo and then the guitars and flutes join in. Then everyone stands up and goes

Gloria! clap clap ohhhh Gloria! clap clap

Then in between they have some verses that mention the spirit of God and praising Him on high.

The parish has one older priest who says Mass about once a month (I mean the Mass we attend, he probably says many more).

Anyways, the soloist will stand up to start and that old priest will glare him down! LOL. So we chant it quietly when he says the Mass.

What you have described is wrong on so many levels. It is certainly a qualifiable liturgical abuse that must be stopped immediately. Please write to your pastor and quote the relevent sections of Redemptionis Sacramentum, the GIRM and Liturgicam Authenticam.

This kind of creativity is most certainly not allowed in the Church. As Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments notes:

Aware that the Sacraments, especially the Holy Eucharist, are Sacraments of faith, that they are signs which manifest faith and instruct on it, the Church is very careful to safeguard sacramental norms and formulae.

No sacramental rite may be modified or manipulated at the will of the minister or the community. Even the supreme authority in the Church may not change the liturgy arbitrarily, but only in the obedience of faith and with religious respect for the mystery of the liturgy.2

Liturgical texts and gestures manifest our Catholic faith, express it, celebrate it and protect it. They preserve the symbols of the faith or the Creeds. They proclaim and transmit the Word of God. They hand on tenets of the faith in ancient hymns like that quoted by Saint Paul in his Letter to the Philippians on Christ Jesus emptying Himself and being exalted as Lord (cf. Phil 2:6-11). Here is an example of how Saint Augustine illustrates the unity between our faith and our liturgy:

When we speak to God in prayer, we do not separate the Son, and when the body of the Son prays, it does not separate its Head from itself, so that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the same savior of His body who at the same time prays for us, prays in us, and is prayed to by us. He prays for us as our priest; He prays in us as our head; He is prayed to by us as our God. Let us therefore recognize both in Him our voices, and in us His voices.6

It is the liturgical norms that the Church uses to protect and transmit the treasures of the liturgy. The celebrating community does not have to re-invent the sacred rites in every age. Redemptionis Sacramentum emphasizes this important function in the preservation of the sacred rites:

The Church herself has no power over those things which were established by Christ Himself and which constitute an unchangeable part of the Liturgy. Indeed, if the bond were to be broken which the Sacraments have with Christ Himself who instituted them, and with the events of the Church’s founding, it would not be beneficial to the faithful but rather would do them grave harm. For the Sacred Liturgy is quite intimately connected with principles of doctrine, so that the use of unapproved texts and rites necessarily leads either to the attenuation or to the disappearance of that necessary link between the lex orandi and the lex credendi.7

In other words, we are not called to be creative. We are called to receive what has been handed to us down through the centuries. The Gloria is one such prayer that is ancient to the Church, with its beginnings traced directly back to the Infancy Narrative of St. Luke. It is not for anyone, not for any musician, not for any publishing house, to desecrate as they wish. What you have described is an utter and gross abuse.

 

[hasikelee]

What you have described is wrong on so many levels. It is certainly a qualifiable liturgical abuse that must be stopped immediately. Please write to your pastor and quote the relevent sections of Redemptionis Sacramentum, the GIRM and Liturgicam Authenticam.

This kind of creativity is most certainly not allowed in the Church. As Francis Cardinal Arinze, the Prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments notes:

In other words, we are not called to be creative. We are called to receive what has been handed to us down through the centuries. The Gloria is one such prayer that is ancient to the Church, with its beginnings traced directly back to the Infancy Narrative of St. Luke. It is not for anyone, not for any musician, not for any publishing house, to desecrate as they wish. What you have described is an utter and gross abuse.

That’s too much work!

 

[benedictgal]

That’s too much work!

Of course, your parish music director (or whoever wrote that illicit Gloria) put in a lot of useless work into making something that is not allowed.

 

[hasikelee]

Of course, your parish music director (or whoever wrote that illicit Gloria) put in a lot of useless work into making something that is not allowed.

This parish is what we nicknamed the “rock concert.” Maybe I sound harsh/judgmental, but I doubt I’m far from the mark in estimating 90% of the people who attend do so to hear the latest music, clap and dance, and sometimes even wave a lighter.

Not clapping for the leader and his choir at the end of Mass is enough to get at least a few glares from fellow parishioners, if not a “tsk tsk” or a comment.

Soon I will not be working and DH is getting a new job. Bliss.

 

[EasterJoy]

Of course, your parish music director (or whoever wrote that illicit Gloria) put in a lot of useless work into making something that is not allowed.

A lot of parishes have liturgy committees, too, to deal with stuff like this.

There are hymns based on the Gloria that people get the mistaken idea can be used in place of the Gloria. Even if the composer meant the piece to be used that way, it isn’t “kosher.” Some of these pieces are appropriate as hymns, although I dare say that most congregations would find that use to be puzzling, at best.

 

[benedictgal]

A lot of parishes have liturgy committees, too, to deal with stuff like this.

There are hymns based on the Gloria that people get the mistaken idea can be used in place of the Gloria. Even if the composer meant the piece to be used that way, it isn’t “kosher.” Some of these pieces are appropriate as hymns, although I dare say that most congregations would find that use to be puzzling, at best.

Actually, OCP received a lot of flack for that infernal Christopher Walker Gloria because it was not even the real prayer, but, a poorly paraphrased version of it. They had to move the song away from the service music and place it with the other songs.

It’s better to not even fool with any of the propers of the Mass. If you want to comose a hymn, then do it in such a manner that does not confuse the faithful; just leave the parts of the Mass alone.

 

[reff]

Well at my parish we have the old happy clappy gloria. “Gloria clap clap, Gloria clap clap, in excelsis deo!!” Ughh

 

[EasterJoy]

Well at my parish we have the old happy clappy gloria. “Gloria clap clap, Gloria clap clap, in excelsis deo!!” Ughh

That’s the one they’re talking about. The little kids love it, but it isn’t the Gloria.

Actually, it wouldn’t make a bad camp song, outside of church…but bet $100 the youth group would want to smuggle it back in.

 

[benedictgal]

That’s the one they’re talking about. The little kids love it, but it isn’t the Gloria.

Actually, it wouldn’t make a bad camp song, outside of church…but bet $100 the youth group would want to smuggle it back in.

It just goes to show you: feed them McDonald’s all the time and they would never even know how a steak tastes like.

Unfortunately, this is the kind of sad junk that publishing houses shove down our throats on a weekly basis, trying to pass it off as sacred music.

 

[kuppusamy]

Has anyone successfully got rid of the dilluted Gloria? I will be sending my pastor, associate pasto and pastorial council emails…but wondered what I am up against. I know there are people in our parish who love it…

And, they sing lots of vibrant worship songs. But, since our new pastor they have thankfully ceased…its seems he may already be on the path to reformation. Perhaps, if on the pastoral council I could be an ally?? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[benedictgal]

Has anyone successfully got rid of the dilluted Gloria? I will be sending my pastor, associate pasto and pastorial council emails…but wondered what I am up against. I know there are people in our parish who love it…

And, they sing lots of vibrant worship songs. But, since our new pastor they have thankfully ceased…its seems he may already be on the path to reformation. Perhaps, if on the pastoral council I could be an ally?? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Actually, re-read my posts wherein I quote Liturgicam Authenticam as well as Redemptionis Sacramentum regarding the issue of texts. These should be solid references.

Furthermore, OCP got raked over the coals and had to move this infernal song from the service music section to the “hymns”.

 

[Phemie]

Actually, re-read my posts wherein I quote Liturgicam Authenticam as well as Redemptionis Sacramentum regarding the issue of texts. These should be solid references.

Furthermore, OCP got raked over the coals and had to move this infernal song from the service music section to the “hymns”.

I talked to our pastor re the choir’s use of Carey Landry’s Gloria, citing the documents. He smirked and the choir is still singing it. Par for the course with him, the only ones who don’t get to do whatever they want are the ones who want to follow the documents.