Can You Choose Christ On Your Own?

[Zooey]

No, God offers His grace to everyone. He desires that all of us should follow after Him.
The problem is, that there are always those that reject God’s prevenient grace, not that there is a limited supply of grace.

And then, too, there are those who initially respond to grace, but later fall away…The drag of the world, the flesh & the devil being part of the human condition.

God bless all here.

 

[havemercy]

Now the question is, Does God call everyone?

 

[scylla]

God desires all to be saved that is Catholic belief, (Timothy 2:4)

and here it is, straight from the Catechism, Prologue…

“FATHER,… this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”[1]
“God our Saviour desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”[2]
“There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved”[3] - than the name of JESUS."

Now to respond to God’s Grace is our choice, many choose their will over God’s will and He allows us that freedom.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

No, I assumed orthodox Catholic teaching required grace to move the sinner to conversion. It’s just that on another post a few posters seemed to take issue with that.

The only other place that I was going to go is “Does God distribute His grace equally to all mankind or does He favor some over others?” but I was going to do that in another thread.

He favours some over others, because He loves some more than others.​

AFAIK, that would be equally acceptable to Calvinists & Catholics

Logically this is compatible with Limited Atonement - which is, at least in principle, not Catholic doctrine: though it seems perfectly compatible with some forms of it: a Thomist or Augustinian would not have difficulty with it a Molinist might. ##

I don’t think this thread or the new one will be a “OK, now that you Catholics have agreed that the Church teaches X, how can that be compatible with Y?” type thing.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hi:
So; in other words you are all saying that God is chosing who will receive His grace. But isn’t that Calvinism. 2 Thess 2;13

forever Baptist
allischalmers

I hope you don’t think God is chosen by man ??? That would entirely destroy the gratuitousness of grace - God is Sovereign; God chooses whomever He Will for His own purposes, Glory, & Name. Give man, who is sinful through & through, & could not stir a finger but for God, the initiative, and the entire Christian faith collapses.​

When the Bible reads: “Man reigns; He is clothed in majesty”; or “Glory to man in the Highest”; or some comparable absurdity, then it will be true that man chooses God, rather than that God Alone, chooses men. And not a second before then.

That verse:

• 2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
• 2Th 2:14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-...pl?book=2Th&chapter=2&translation=rsv&x=6&y=6 ##

 

[Pug]

The only other place that I was going to go is “Does God distribute His grace equally to all mankind or does He favor some over others?” but I was going to do that in another thread.

This thread has not seen any activity for a bit, so I’ll go ahead and answer this one. I don’t think God’s grace is evenly distributed. Most surely, we do not get the *same *graces. Some are apostles, some teachers, etc. Some are hands and some are feet in the body of Christ. Also, it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” God can show mercy to whom he wills.

 

[mtk76]

I do not really think the Jacob I loved but Essau I hated verse proves much of anything. Perhaps that was the case because Essau rejected the graces that God had given him verses been given less. For all we know Essau had the same amount of grace given to him as Jacob and just did not respond in a manner acceptable to God. Interesting thing is if you think about it Essau was both loving and merciful as he spared Jacob despite his trickery against him.

 

[Pug]

For all we know Essau had the same amount of grace given to him as Jacob and just did not respond in a manner acceptable to God.

I was specifically thinking of the context of Romans 9 where Paul mentions how before they were born and before they had done anything good or bad that the choice was made that the second would be first.

Interesting thing is if you think about it Essau was both loving and merciful as he spared Jacob despite his trickery against him.

If Esau was truly loving and merciful, these are merits. Merits are often conceived as God’s gift to us. I don’t immediately see anything to stop God from giving more gifts to one of us than to another.

To approach the question from a Catholic (not ecumenical) perspective, do you feel that you have received the graces that the Blessed Mother did, or do you feel that she received more grace, for example, the singular priviledge of her immaculate conception? For myself, I would say that I think she got more grace than me or was more beloved by God. Furthermore, of course I have not cooperated as well as she, but that is only additional icing on my lesser-ness.

Note: I am a Thomist, not a Molinist. I agree that not all Catholics are Thomists on the topic of election and the like.

 

[mtk76]

I would say she had more grace obviously since she was full of grace. I think it seems God gives us no more or no less than we can handle and the quantity of grace one receives may fit this profile.