A
abb
Guest
Simple question, can I be a police officer and have the possibility of killing someone, as we all know it might come down to that, and consider myself Catholic still? Thanks.
Andrew
Andrew
- Status
T
Todd_Easton
Guest
Simple answer: Yes. There are many fine Catholic police officers. The patron saint of police officers is St. Michael the Archangel. The Catholic Church allows for the use of lethal force by individuals, by society, and by nations as a last resort in self-defense and in the defense of others. I suggest you study the Church’s teachings on the Fifth Commandment (“You shall not kill.”) as articulated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, especially paragraphs on Legitimate defense, 2263-2267.
W
wjp984
Guest
I remember police officers used to come in for career day and also give other speeches and the questions that were always asked is whether they had ever been shot, ever shot someone, and whether they ever killed someone. All of them said they rarely had to use their guns and none of them said they had ever had to kill anyone. You probably won’t ever have to kill anyone.
L
LilyM
Guest
Didn’t you ask this question before in another thread? :ehh:
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Why do you have to shoot to kill. Shoot them in the foot or hands or whatever…
In this country the police are unarmed, and while back a police woman singlehandedly stopped a bank raider, pulled him out of his car & took his gun from him… And the bad guys in this place make american criminals look like wimps…
In this country the police are unarmed, and while back a police woman singlehandedly stopped a bank raider, pulled him out of his car & took his gun from him… And the bad guys in this place make american criminals look like wimps…
T
Tietjen
Guest
I hope so, otherwise I’m damned because of my profession. Soldiers, law enforcement, etc. CAN still consider themselves Catholic. Why? First, because I know of NO ONE in these professions that WANT to kill another human being. Second, because if the situation requires the use of deadly force on the part of a soldier or law enforcement officer, it is most likely justified. The Church allows for JUST wars. Wars have a lot of killing in them. Therefore, one can be assured that God’s Church (the “Pillar of Truth”) includes members of these professions in their pews and that they need not worry about damnation simply because of their profession.
A
abb
Guest
I deleted this thread and have no idea why it came up again, sorry for the inconvience.
T
Tietjen
Guest
In the “foot or hands or whatever…” Are you serious? With all do respect, who among us is so good a shot that they can hit a moving “foot”, “Hands”, or “whatever”? Aim center mass or it will be the police officer who ends being buried. As to a police woman pulling bank robbers out of cars (unarmed)… That is an acception. Do you think she could go out tomorrow and do it again? She was lucky. As for the “bad guys” where you live making American criminals look like wimps… People are the same everywhere. Perhaps where you are they seem more tough, but maybe that is because they know that your cops aren’t carrying.
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Yes I’m serious. Police have no business being armed if they’re not able to shoot. Its just as easy to aim for legs as it is to aim for the heart - and why would you be shooting at a moving target anyway - is the target running away from you, ie. not being a threat.
T
Tietjen
Guest
Okay, I’m sorry. I wasn’t thinking. You are from a place where guns are illegal, so you probably have no clue how difficult it would be to shoot someone in the hand when he’s waving a knife at you. Incidentally, no one who has any type of training “aims for the heart.” Law enforcement and military for that matter are trained to aim center mass. The torso is the largest part of an individual and thereby the easiest to hit.
Which would explain why law enforcement in your country don’t carry. Sorry, I know that wasn’t charitable but it’s no worse than your comment insinuating that the law enforcement community in the U.S. shouldn’t carry if they are unable to shoot a criminal in the hand.
You truly have no clue what you are talking about. Law enforcement in the U.S. do not shoot fleeing suspects. If a weapon is drawn, it is in self-defense or the defense of another. I thought that the criminals in your country made our criminals look like “wimps.” If that is the case, how is it you assume that I am speaking of shooting a fleeing suspect? Maybe they always run where you are from but that is certainly not the case here.
Now, this thread is probably one of the most ridiculous threads I have posted in. I feel like I am arguing with a child. If you are an adult, I would suggest visiting one of our police academies here in the U.S. or at least research the topic so that you do not sound so foolish. As for me, I am moving on to more intelligent conversations. God bless.
A
Anne1964
Guest
a. It’s possible the suspect may be running toward you.
b. If the suspect has a gun and has threatened to kill someone with it, he most certainly is a threat to everyone around him, no matter what direction he is running in.
As Tietjen pointed out, police are taught to aim for center body mass because the torso is the largest part of the body. In most shooting situations the police officer does not have time to slow down, get in a “proper” firing position and take careful aim. It is not like what you see on TV.
The goal is to incapacitate the suspect. Shooting center body mass does not necessarily kill someone. Shooting a suspect in the leg or hand (if you’re lucky enough to make the shot), leaves the suspect quite capable of shooting back at you.
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Shooting someone in ’ centre body mass ’ as ye so quaintly put it does not prevent the person from either running or shooting, either. And it probably means multiple shots must be fired before the person falls, allowing for a wonderful amount of damage to be caused to any or all vital organs.
A shot to an elbow or knee prevents a person from either running or shooting back, and the wounds are never life threatening. I think your garden variety shooter will quickly look for cover if he sees someone waving a gun at him, giving you lots of time to take aim. And I have never heard of someone with a gun running towards someone else who is pointing a gun at them - but perhaps it happens.
A shot to an elbow or knee prevents a person from either running or shooting back, and the wounds are never life threatening. I think your garden variety shooter will quickly look for cover if he sees someone waving a gun at him, giving you lots of time to take aim. And I have never heard of someone with a gun running towards someone else who is pointing a gun at them - but perhaps it happens.
L
LeahInancsi
Guest
I agree.
It’s very simple. A policeman is defending his own life as well as the innocent citizens he serves.
B
baltobetsy
Guest
I’d like to address a nit-picky issue about how you have phrased your question.
You can consider yourself Catholic if you have been baptized or received into the Church and have not made a formal act to join another faith.
You remain Catholic if you commit serious sin. You remain Catholic if you have a job that puts you in difficult or sinful situations.
Catholics, all of us, are sinners. We have the Sacrament of Reconciliation to help us return to our relationship with God if we have broken it by sin. Sin does not keep us from being Catholic.
You have received excellent answers about being a Catholic policeman. What you need to do is make the distinction between killing and murder. It is murder that is forbidden.
Betsy
You can consider yourself Catholic if you have been baptized or received into the Church and have not made a formal act to join another faith.
You remain Catholic if you commit serious sin. You remain Catholic if you have a job that puts you in difficult or sinful situations.
Catholics, all of us, are sinners. We have the Sacrament of Reconciliation to help us return to our relationship with God if we have broken it by sin. Sin does not keep us from being Catholic.
You have received excellent answers about being a Catholic policeman. What you need to do is make the distinction between killing and murder. It is murder that is forbidden.
Betsy
R
Rach620
Guest
This is indeed one of the most ridiculous threads I’ve ever read.
No one wants to kill another human being, but if it must be done out of legitimate defense for innocent human life, it is acceptable. We need policemen and people willing to dedicate their lives to the military to protect us.
Practically speaking, to tell a cop that he must aim for the kneecap or elbow is silly. You don’t seem to realize the speed with which situations can go from very bad to explosively lethal (for example, a terrorist waving a gun and threatening to detonate a bomb, or someone who has taken a hostage). You have no way to predict the actions of a shooter because there quite simply isn’t a ‘garden variety shooter’. Not every guy with a gun is going to run for cover when the police arrive–there are plenty of cases which prove that. What if the police are dealing with a terrorist willing to give his life for his cause, as long as he can take out as many innocents as possible with him? Criminals aren’t always acting rationally.
Besides the fact that there’s a much greater likelihood of the police missing their target altogether–and giving the suspect time to flee and/or shoot back–shooting anywhere other than the torso in no way guarantees that he still can’t shoot back or harm innocent life. Someone who has been shot in an elbow or knee is not completely incapacitated. A bullet to the gut will incapacitate you pretty fast.
I don’t mean to sound flippant, but if criminals are so concerned with protecting their own lives, perhaps they should think about that before they go threatening the lives of others. I would love to live in a world where we don’t need to use lethal weapons to defend ourselves from armed crazies, but I guess the current state of affairs is what we inherit c/o original sin.
B
Benedictus
Guest
I’m going to guess that you’ve never shot a handgun.
The chances of a typical police officer hitting someone’s hand or foot with a handgun from more than a few feet away are virtually nil–even assuming the person is holding still.
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Ok…heres the solution, if shooting someone with a handgun is a real hit or miss thing - think metaphorical kneecap - if you hit the stomach thats fine, - just an accident. I’ve no problem with police shooting somebody but try to see Christ in the man you’re aiming at, and don’t panic in a difficult spot - we are all dying.
**
**
R
Rach620
Guest
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
The Catholic position with respect to “murder” versus “killing” has been accurately stated here by others.
HOWEVER, someone posted that the police officer should aim for the criminal’s hand or elbow.
It is almost impossible to hit a target as small as a hand or an elbow. It is difficult enough to hit the center of the body mass.
Read through newspaper accounts of actual incidents where police were involved in shootings. Generally there was only one hit per ten shots fired.
Anyone who makes a statement about aiming for a hand or an elbow should visit a target range, rent a pistol, and try aiming for the hand or elbow of a non-moving silouette target. It’s not as easy as one would think.
HOWEVER, someone posted that the police officer should aim for the criminal’s hand or elbow.
It is almost impossible to hit a target as small as a hand or an elbow. It is difficult enough to hit the center of the body mass.
Read through newspaper accounts of actual incidents where police were involved in shootings. Generally there was only one hit per ten shots fired.
Anyone who makes a statement about aiming for a hand or an elbow should visit a target range, rent a pistol, and try aiming for the hand or elbow of a non-moving silouette target. It’s not as easy as one would think.
L
lizaanne
Guest
**
Wow - you really have no clue. A long bow? Are you serious?
It’s difficult enough to aim a handgun, especially a very high powered weapon, and shoot well, not to mention controlling the massive amount of adrenaline pumped into your body at the same time. I give a ton of credit to anyone who can do it, and our police officers are some of the best shooters there are.
I’ve spent a decent amount of time on the range, I’m a VERY good shot with handguns, and I have an extreme appreciation for those who have to do it in a stressful or chaotic situation. I don’t think I ever could.
Long bow. Gimme a break.
~Liza
- Status