Can you explain if both of these are OK liturgically?

[EphelDuath]

We’ve never said the penitential rite (“I confess to almighty God…”) at Sunday masses. Though we still say the kyrie (“Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy…”)

Also, occasionally, the monsignor will have a short homily, but also with a guest speaker or tape that calls for a second donation. I thought this was wrong, though.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

We’ve never said the penitential rite (“I confess to almighty God…”) at Sunday masses. Though we still say the kyrie (“Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy…”)

“I confess to almighty God …” is one of several options at the penitential rite. Your priest has simply chosen another option.

 

[Monkey1976]

We do the same thing at our parish - I think it’s option “C” for the penitential rite, which combines the penitential rite and the Kyrie. Personally, I’d prefer a separate Confetitor and Kyrie, but it’s not my call to make

 

[LilyM]

We’ve never said the penitential rite (“I confess to almighty God…”) at Sunday masses. Though we still say the kyrie (“Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy…”)

Also, occasionally, the monsignor will have a short homily, but also with a guest speaker or tape that calls for a second donation. I thought this was wrong, though.

It’s perfectly fine to say the Kyrie without the Confiteor in the Penitential Rite, although I too prefer the Confiteor. And it’s fine to have a guest speaker as long as the monsignor does always give at least a short homily beforehand.

 

[puzzleannie]

We’ve never said the penitential rite (“I confess to almighty God…”) at Sunday masses. Though we still say the kyrie (“Lord have mercy. Christ have mercy…”)

Also, occasionally, the monsignor will have a short homily, but also with a guest speaker or tape that calls for a second donation. I thought this was wrong, though.

neither of these is problematic.
yes, there are 3 forms of the penitential rite, the confetior is used only for the first.
yes, a speech by someone not a priest may be given as long as the priest or deacon also gives at least a brief homily on the gospel of the day.

If you are not sure about these things ALWAYS err on the side of charity, and assume the priest, who has been prepared by long training and practice and directly instructed by his bishop on liturgy, is right, and we are wrong or mistaken. otherwise you will never have peace at Mass, and will be endangering your own spiritual welfare by questioning everything you see that is outside your own experience.

 

[guanophore]

neither of these is problematic.
yes, there are 3 forms of the penitential rite, the confetior is used only for the first.
yes, a speech by someone not a priest may be given as long as the priest or deacon also gives at least a brief homily on the gospel of the day.

If you are not sure about these things ALWAYS err on the side of charity, and assume the priest, who has been prepared by long training and practice and directly instructed by his bishop on liturgy, is right, and we are wrong or mistaken. otherwise you will never have peace at Mass, and will be endangering your own spiritual welfare by questioning everything you see that is outside your own experience.

Thanks for this post. I have been very disturbed since I attended a parish that dropped the confitieor and have not felt as though I should go back, because I thought they had dropped out an essential part of the liturgy.

 

[briang72]

Homilies are not to be given by lay persons So if the guest speaker is there for that reason…

From Ask an Apologist post:

This issue has been very clearly dealt with by Church authority.

First, Code of Canon Law (CIC) states that the homily “is reserved to a priest or deacon” (CIC 767.1).

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) goes further in its instruction to expressly exclude lay persons: “The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person” (GIRM 66, emphasis added).

Finally, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, in its instructional document Redemptionis Sacramentum, specifically names "pastoral assistants” and those who assume that function, as well as any other lay person as those prohibited from preaching the homily: “The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association” (RS 66, emphasis added).

This issue looks “black and white” to me.

---

Jim Blackburn
Catholic Answers Apologist

 

[bluehen]

BrianG,

Generally, reading the post in its entirety, and reading the answers before yours would be helpful. But since you missed the part about how the guest speaker followed the short homily, and all the answers about how that is okay, feel free to re-read.

 

[briang72]

I apologize to those who think my information is not helpful.

When I read the sentence…

Also, occasionally, the monsignor will have a short homily, **but also with a guest speaker **or tape that calls for a second donation.

… I thought that possibly the guest speaker was involved someway in the homily.

I read the entire thread. Noone addressed whether the guest speaker was involved in the homily or not. Nowhere does it say “the guest speaker followed the short homily”.

 

[Brendan]

I read the entire thread. Noone addressed whether the guest speaker was involved in the homily or not. Nowhere does it say “the guest speaker followed the short homily”.

But the GIRM specifies that after the Homily is complete, a short moment of reflection is to follow, and then, after that, the Creed.

If it’s not part of the homily, then it doesn’t belong between the Homily and the Creed.

If the guest speaker is not a bishop, priest or deacon, the speaker or the tape should be played after Communion. That is the time where lay speakers are permitted to address the faithful, with announcements or support for mission work.

 

[chicago]

But the GIRM specifies that after the Homily is complete, a short moment of reflection is to follow, and then, after that, the Creed.

If it’s not part of the homily, then it doesn’t belong between the Homily and the Creed.

If the guest speaker is not a bishop, priest or deacon, the speaker or the tape should be played after Communion. That is the time where lay speakers are permitted to address the faithful, with announcements or support for mission work.

Still, it is commonly done after the homily (as are certain other things at times, like special commisionings or what have you) at many parishes, even those which are quite orthodox. So, while it might not be the ideal or most appropriate or even prescribed spot, I think it is something not to fret over much as it has come to be commonly accepted as practical and appropriate.

Now, if on the other hand, it is a matter of the priest commonly using this as an excuse to let some layperson preach for its own sake, that is a more serious problem which probably has to be addressed.

 

[Cat]

Our parish priest allows laypersons to speak after the homily. I’ve seen it done for the following reasons:

To present the parish budget and thank the members for their continued support of the parish.

To challenge the people in regards to the Diocescan Pledge Drive, to attend the Light of the World retreat, to thank the congregation for supporting a youth retreat to Steubenville, to encourage the people to attend the activities fair and sign up to get involved with a church Bible study, work group, to report on Hurricane Katrina projects. etc.etc.

I’ve always felt that these were very appropriate.

I guess my question is, “When else would the priest allow this type of thing?”

Before the Mass? Not everyone is there, and most people prefer to prepare themselves for the sacred mysteries through prayer and contemplation.

After the Mass? That’s a good one! Unless they lock the doors, everyone is out the door. Besides, we are supposed to have time after the Mass for prayer and contemplation.

During the week? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Like anyone would listen!

Through a letter? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ What a waste of funds.

Online? This is a possibility, but believe it or not, there are people who don’t go online very often, and if they do, they don’t check their parish website to see all the opportunities they have to give more money or volunteer more time.

Our Masses tend to be very reverent NO Masses and our bishop is quite conservative and orthodox. I seriously doubt that our priests are committing any kind of abuse. In the past, the small abuses that have been committed by our priests (e.g., adding a prayer) have been dealt with by the Bishop and eliminated.

 

[drafdog]

Please note again that the GIRM is an instruction, not part of canon law. Even papal masses have departed from the GIRM and to whom would you write to complain about that? Let it suffice that the priest gave a brief homily and then asked another person to address the congregation briefly on a matter important to the congregation.
I will add here that I have been at Masses where the priest gave no homily but instead showed a tape of the bishop’s address to the diocese. This was done at the bishop’s direction and it would have made no difference what Mass at what parish in the diocese I attended. This is a case of the local ordinary taking his perogative as the shepherd of the flock.

Matthew

 

[puzzleannie]

Thanks for this post. I have been very disturbed since I attended a parish that dropped the confitieor and have not felt as though I should go back, because I thought they had dropped out an essential part of the liturgy.

this is exactly why those of us who are not charged with knowing and carrying out the rules governing the liturgy should simply assume the priest, who is, is doing his job and not be concerned. Your spiritual peace is being threatened, just what the devil wants. He will be especially gleeful if you stop going to Mass because of it.